American Seagle
Well-known member
- Jun 14, 2022
- 918
Just came here to say: how the f*** was that not a penalty? And don't give me that "off his body" bullcrap. Dunk had one given against him for exactly the same thing and that was ok.
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[Albion] The handball penalty
- Thread starter Bozza
- Start date
m20gull
Well-known member
There is nothing in the current IFAB laws that says it's not a penalty if it hits some other part of the body first. Until someone comes up with a justification of why the Premier League is applying the rule differently then that should be a penalty.
I'm in sympathy with the current rules. If you make your body bigger by having your arm in an unnatural position and the ball hits your arm then that is handball. The intent is in the arm position. I also think this makes the 'proximity' argument irrelevant. If you are allowed to have the ball hit your arm because you're close then you might as well go in like a goalkeeper for a close block.
I can't see why the PL and PGMOL can't just say what law they're applying and at least we would know where we stand.
I'm in sympathy with the current rules. If you make your body bigger by having your arm in an unnatural position and the ball hits your arm then that is handball. The intent is in the arm position. I also think this makes the 'proximity' argument irrelevant. If you are allowed to have the ball hit your arm because you're close then you might as well go in like a goalkeeper for a close block.
I can't see why the PL and PGMOL can't just say what law they're applying and at least we would know where we stand.
tigertim68
Well-known member
- Sep 3, 2012
- 2,695
There was also a shout for a pen early in the second half , when Adringra was down by goal line and the defender stopped the ball with his hand , all that area of thr ground shouted for a penalty, was expecting a VAR check , nothing
Robertson. They said on the telly that there was a VAR check. It was incredibly quick though.
They seem to be interpreting the rule a bit like LBW in cricket:
If the ball touches the bat, is going on to hit the stumps, but is stopped by your pads, that's fine, because it touched your bat first
If the ball touches your leg, is going on to finish in the goal (or at an attackers feet), but is stopped by your arm, that's fine, because it touched your leg first
The fact that it has hit your leg first means that you haven't then had time to react, which is just the same as when a shot comes in from very close range, and you haven't had time to react. In the latter example, they ignore the lack of time to react if your hand is in an unnatural position. Why don't they do the same for the former?
Yet more inconsistency with the rules.
If the ball touches the bat, is going on to hit the stumps, but is stopped by your pads, that's fine, because it touched your bat first
If the ball touches your leg, is going on to finish in the goal (or at an attackers feet), but is stopped by your arm, that's fine, because it touched your leg first
The fact that it has hit your leg first means that you haven't then had time to react, which is just the same as when a shot comes in from very close range, and you haven't had time to react. In the latter example, they ignore the lack of time to react if your hand is in an unnatural position. Why don't they do the same for the former?
Yet more inconsistency with the rules.
I think shortly afterwards the ref signalled that it was no pen.
Law 12.
Handling the ball
For the purposes of determining handball offences, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit.
It is an offence if a player:
• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
• after the ball has touched their or a team-mate’s hand/arm, even if accidental, immediately:
• scores in the opponents’ goal
• creates a goal-scoring opportunity
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
• the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
• the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)
The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close.
Except for the above offences, it is not an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:
• directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
• directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
• if the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally bigger
• when a player falls and the hand/arm is between the body and the ground to support the body, but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body
Gabbafella
Well-known member
- Aug 22, 2012
- 4,930
So that's where the refs cards were all along.
Not in the current law - which I didn't know until someone posted it earlier.
Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct | IFAB
Football foul rules, handball football rules, types of fouls in football
www.theifab.com
So it's been removed?!Not in the current law - which I didn't know until someone posted it earlier.
Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct | IFAB
Football foul rules, handball football rules, types of fouls in football
m20gull
Well-known member
As stated elsewhere that is the version before 2020.
m20gull
Well-known member
Yes, though UEFA want it brought back.
Seemingly - see post #7
Not quite true. It's in the 2020/21 laws.
m20gull
Well-known member
Sorry. Memory failure on my part.
Didn't see it when I looked earlier. Just went back here https://downloads.theifab.com/downloads/laws-of-the-game-2020-21?l=en and they have a full page image with the handball line on the arm before it lists the exception. Perhaps it works better in book form than scrolling through the PDF. (Also double checked the 2023/24, it's definitely not in the current laws!)
fruitnveg
Well-known member
Rules is rules, so no, not a Pen. Would be great if they could apply the law equally with consistency though. Pigs might fly.
Justice
Dangerous Idiot
How exactly was his hand close to his body?
Algernon
Well-known member
It was closer to his body than if his arm had been fully outstretched.
I guess.
Uh_huh_him
Well-known member
- Sep 28, 2011
- 12,435
No mention of it on MotD.