[News] The Grenfell Report.

[Weststander]

At the start of the BBC News at Ten, I caught a reference to 'a bonfire of regulations' by the Cameron/Clegg coalition in 2010.

I don't know if the regulations in the bonfire were directly relevant to Grenfell, but the inference was that they were.

Newsnight covering this right now. Governments first knew in the 70’s and “results from a striking test in 2001”.

 

[Eric the meek]

Newsnight covering this right now. Governments first knew in the 70’s and “results from a striking test in 2001”.

I know. I'm watching it.

It's systemic failure. Long-term. No party political stuff. This happened across various governments. People not doing their jobs. Not realising the danger of what their test results meant.

I find it profoundly depressing.

 

[Weststander]

I know. I'm watching it.

It's systemic failure. Long-term. No party political stuff. This happened across various governments. People not doing their jobs. Not realising the danger of what their test results meant.

I find it profoundly depressing.

Corruption/criminality imho from the manufacturers. These are huge businesses making billions annually. The enquiry uncovered senior people knowingly on the make pre fire.

Extremely arrogant eg Kingspan’s response today, they can afford the very best law firms to fight their corner.

The CPS must see this through.

But I’m cynical that people will serve time in prison.

 

[Eric the meek]

Corruption/criminality imho from the manufacturers. These are huge businesses making billions annually. The enquiry uncovered senior people knowingly on the make pre fire.

Extremely arrogant eg Kingspan’s response today, they can afford the very best law firms to fight their corner.

The CPS must see this through.

But I’m cynical that people will serve time in prison.

It's that cladding. It crops up time and time again.

I frequently drive past the blocks of flats springing up at Shoreham (especially the ones directly opposite the Lighthouse Car sales).

They may look brick built, but they aren't. The 'bricks' are in fact, large panels of cladding (made to look like bricks), fixed onto the bare concrete. I've seen them being attached. Presumably to save on cost of materials.

I wonder about it. I wonder about it.

 

[Weststander]

It's that cladding. It crops up time and time again.

I frequently drive past the blocks of flats springing up at Shoreham (especially the ones directly opposite the Lighthouse Car sales).

They may look brick built, but they aren't. The 'bricks' are in fact, large panels of cladding (made to look like bricks), fixed onto the bare concrete. I've seen them being attached. Presumably to save on cost of materials.

I wonder about it. I wonder about it.

There must be products that aren’t immediately combustible eg 100’s of blocks have been reclad since, plus of course what are high standard northern European nations using where they’re not into brick and blocks?

You’d imagine that architects, consulting engineers, contractors wouldn’t now touch risky products with a barge pole. Insurers would also have a say.

 

[Eric the meek]

There must be products that aren’t immediately combustible eg 100’s of blocks have been reclad since, plus of course what are high standard northern European nations using where they’re not into brick and blocks?

You’d imagine that architects, consulting engineers, contractors wouldn’t now touch risky products with a barge pole. Insurers would also have a say.

'There must be......'
'You'd imagine.......'

What if that were the sum total of all the checks that happened pre-Grenfell? Or more to the point, post-Grenfell?

Do you trust architects, consulting engineers, contractors, etc to challenge the use of cladding products on site? Or do they just look after their own interests and use whatever is provided without a murmur?

Or to put it another way, do you trust architects, consulting engineers and contractors with your life?

 

[Albion my Albion]

it appears that the three named manufacturers ultimately committed corporate manslaughter. Without their lies and products, the fire wouldn't have spread.

Did that include the American manufacturer and how can they be punished by the British govt or court system?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Did that include the American manufacturer and how can they be punished by the British govt or court system?

Through their UK entity: Arconic UK Holdings Limited

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Corruption/criminality imho from the manufacturers. These are huge businesses making billions annually. The enquiry uncovered senior people knowingly on the make pre fire.

Extremely arrogant eg Kingspan’s response today, they can afford the very best law firms to fight their corner.

The CPS must see this through.

But I’m cynical that people will serve time in prison.

We have a Prime Minister who is a former very effective head of the Crown Prosecution Service. I was talking to my brother-in-law, who has been a fairly senior bod in the CPS, at a family party last week who confirmed how good he was.
And Starmer has the sort of values which I hope will mean this is robustly followed through.

there was a clip on the news last night too of Cameron talking about cutting red-tape. Maybe all this will militate against the “health and safety is a nonsense” nonsense. Red tape is needed and needs to be enforced!

 

[Peteinblack]

Also a damning indictment of decades of 'deregulation' - the populist calls to cut red tape and the much-mocked health-and-safety considerations, and leave everything to 'the market' and higher standards supposedly achieved via competition.

Now everyone is promising that 'lessons have been learnt' - until the next time that politicians and property developers prioritise profits over people.

 

[albionalba]

..next big scandal ? 10-15 years time it will be food and its marketing by shops and big corporations.

The big food industry scandal is fairly well known

I don't want to send this thread too far away from the recognition of the fault and systemic corruption behind the Grenfell tragedy but I do agree with these quotes in terms of the level of corruption, corporate power, lobbying, government inertia and complicity etc etc that is driving the food chain scandal/s. I'm sure this isn't the only example either and if there's any lesson at all from this horror it is trying to ensure that tangled liabilities / disasters already unfolding / waiting to happen like Grenfell are deterred in the future by higher levels of corporate accountability and routes to call them out. It probably also needs a lower level of societal tolerance of such things in the first place but in this noisy world of social media shouting I have no idea where that will come from. As other posters have said, it is all very depressing that a story akin to a third world "building collapses / corrupt developers etc" story can happen within what we naively consider as a more advanced civil society.