The future of football ... from 40 years ago

[Gwylan]

Been clearing up and found a copy of the Foul* annual from 1974. There's a letter from one Andy Kenrick that really caught my eye.

"What the hell is all this we keep hearing about family football? ... Football is not about covered stadiums, padded seats, ice cream, women and kids. It's about hitching, getting pissed, shouting, swaying, standing pushing, pissing on your boots ... and, if you feel like it, aggro....
What next? A ban on singing? No scarves allowed? No standing? It's coming, unless we do something about it."

It's interesting that in the same book, there's talk about the decline in attendances. Wonder how Mr Kenrick feels now when he sees the packed-out all-seating stadiums.


* For younger readers: Foul was a precursor to the likes of When Saturday Comes. Probably not so well-written nor as funny, but a bit harder-hitting.

 

[severnside gull]

we have similar dinosaurs, assorted misfits and neo-nazis still flourishing on here but fortunately we also have thousands of mums and dads who enjoy the Amex experience with their kids thereby ensuring that the game that could have easily died will instead continue to flourish

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I have just got back from the Library where I took out The Football Man by Arthur Hopcraft - I thought this was going to be a spooky thread quoting that.

As it happens I also picked up a book I had ordered from the book thread based on your recommendation Gwylan. The Third Policeman by Flann O'Brien - I am looking forward to that one.

 

[Napper]

we have similar dinosaurs, assorted misfits and neo-nazis still flourishing on here but fortunately we also have thousands of mums and dads who enjoy the Amex experience with their kids thereby ensuring that the game that could have easily died will instead continue to flourish

flourish for who ? certainly not the working class who are getting priced out

or you mean flourish for the shareholders and fat cats

 

[Gwylan]

I have just got back from the Library where I took out The Football Man by Arthur Hopcraft - I thought this was going to be a spooky thread quoting that.

As it happens I also picked up a book I had ordered from the book thread based on your recommendation Gwylan. The Third Policeman by Flann O'Brien - I am looking forward to that one.

The Football Man is an excellent book but The Third Policeman is something else - you'll never look at bicycles in quite the same way

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

The Football Man is an excellent book but The Third Policeman is something else - you'll never look at bicycles in quite the same way

Should be good.

 

[brakespear]

we have similar dinosaurs, assorted misfits and neo-nazis still flourishing on here but fortunately we also have thousands of mums and dads who enjoy the Amex experience with their kids

 

[Gwylan]

flourish for who ? certainly not the working class who are getting priced out

or you mean flourish for the shareholders and fat cats

Really? Brighton's attendances now are getting for treble what they were then (10,864 in 73/74) - not many signs of people getting priced out down here

 

[Return of the Rev]

I still find it possible to piss on my boots when sitting in my seat

 

[Shuggie]

I still find it possible to piss on my boots when sitting in my seat

Agreed, although the first I know about it these days is when someone else tells me

 

[Buzzer]

Really? Brighton's attendances now are getting for treble what they were then (10,864 in 73/74) - not many signs of people getting priced out down here

No doubting the support for BHA is now predominantly middle-class if a quick glance at the WSU on matchday is anythng to go by (mind you - we're all middle-class nowadays apparently) and any price increases would probably not be so sensitive to renewals but it most certainly is true for the likes of Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea. Their boards have, by and large, stuck two fingers up at their traditional fanbase with the pricing of STs. I know a few Chelsea fans, proper old school blokes who remember the likes of Mickey Droy and John Hollins and were there right up to the late 90s when they had likes of Michael Duberry getting player of the season who now can't afford the grand a season that the clubs are demanding.

Tony Meola's Loan Spell and I have a mate who's an Arsenal STH that we're trying to convert (his boyfriend's a Brighton STH) and his ST is about £1200 a season. For anyone earning less than £30k a year that's out of their budget completely.

 

[Return of the Rev]

Would not have swapped growing up in the 70's with all the chaos and excitement,great times but glad my kids didn't have to grow up in this period and all we have to worry about now is trying to swerve R R ramblings

 

[Gwylan]

No doubting the support for BHA is now predominantly middle-class if a quick glance at the WSU on matchday is anythng to go by (mind you - we're all middle-class nowadays apparently)

Yes, not quite sure how many working class supporters there are these days. The definition would have switched a bit since the 70s.

it most certainly is true for the likes of Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea. Their boards have, by and large, stuck two fingers up at their traditional fanbase with the pricing of STs. ...
Tony Meola's Loan Spell and I have a mate who's an Arsenal STH that we're trying to convert (his boyfriend's a Brighton STH) and his ST is about £1200 a season. For anyone earning less than £30k a year that's out of their budget completely.

That's a fair point, Arsenal are certainly taking the piss. I used to live 5 minutes from Highbury and remember deciding to go for a game at 2.50 and just popping along, including when I was on the dole. Can't see many people on JSA forking out for the Emirates.

But don't think it's true of all the clubs. Yes, Brighton's prices have gone up ahead of inflation but then so have house prices, beer, transport costs and utilities - fans would vote with their feet if there were too high

 

[Westdene Seagull]

No doubting the support for BHA is now predominantly middle-class if a quick glance at the WSU on matchday is anythng to go by (mind you - we're all middle-class nowadays apparently) and any price increases would probably not be so sensitive to renewals but it most certainly is true for the likes of Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea. Their boards have, by and large, stuck two fingers up at their traditional fanbase with the pricing of STs. I know a few Chelsea fans, proper old school blokes who remember the likes of Mickey Droy and John Hollins and were there right up to the late 90s when they had likes of Michael Duberry getting player of the season who now can't afford the grand a season that the clubs are demanding.

Tony Meola's Loan Spell and I have a mate who's an Arsenal STH that we're trying to convert (his boyfriend's a Brighton STH) and his ST is about £1200 a season. For anyone earning less than £30k a year that's out of their budget completely.

Not a dig or anything but isn't it a bit dated to link someone's class with their income ? I know some very wealthy plumbers and builders who would class themselves as working class.

 

[severnside gull]

No doubting the support for BHA is now predominantly middle-class if a quick glance at the WSU on matchday is anythng to go by (mind you - we're all middle-class nowadays apparently) and any price increases would probably not be so sensitive to renewals but it most certainly is true for the likes of Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea. Their boards have, by and large, stuck two fingers up at their traditional fanbase with the pricing of STs. I know a few Chelsea fans, proper old school blokes who remember the likes of Mickey Droy and John Hollins and were there right up to the late 90s when they had likes of Michael Duberry getting player of the season who now can't afford the grand a season that the clubs are demanding.

Tony Meola's Loan Spell and I have a mate who's an Arsenal STH that we're trying to convert (his boyfriend's a Brighton STH) and his ST is about £1200 a season. For anyone earning less than £30k a year that's out of their budget completely.

no doubt the population of Sussex , then as now, is predominantly middle claa albeot catchment areas have expanded as transportation is much more accessible now than then.

 

[Pevenseagull]

No doubting the support for BHA is now predominantly middle-class if a quick glance at the WSU on matchday is anythng to go by (mind you - we're all middle-class nowadays apparently) and any price increases would probably not be so sensitive to renewals but it most certainly is true for the likes of Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea. Their boards have, by and large, stuck two fingers up at their traditional fanbase with the pricing of STs. I know a few Chelsea fans, proper old school blokes who remember the likes of Mickey Droy and John Hollins and were there right up to the late 90s when they had likes of Michael Duberry getting player of the season who now can't afford the grand a season that the clubs are demanding.

Tony Meola's Loan Spell and I have a mate who's an Arsenal STH that we're trying to convert (his boyfriend's a Brighton STH) and his ST is about £1200 a season. For anyone earning less than £30k a year that's out of their budget completely.

Sweet Jesus ............ I've never been so glad that I didn't base my loyalty on the 1979 FA cup final.

 

[Buzzer]

Not a dig or anything but isn't it a bit dated to link someone's class with their income ? I know some very wealthy plumbers and builders who would class themselves as working class.

I think a survey was done recently where the demographic for the average Chelsea fan is someone who's an IT worker on £60-70k a year. Compare and contrast with the pre-Abramovich type of fan and Chelsea was definitely known as a working-class club despite its illustrious location. My stepdad for instance was from Westbourne Grove and came from a seriously rough upbringing. Very few of them from that area that haven't done well are ST holders. They just can't afford it and they don't enjoy the match day experience. I did hear that there were a few who only did away games - very much in the same way that during the Withdean years we had a fair few Albion supporters who only did away games too. (although not because of the cost of a Withdean ticket).

I'm a working-class boy done good, I suppose but there's no way I could justify the best part of 2 grand a season in STs for me and my two lads at those London club prices. I've had so many great times taking my lads to footie, memories we'll have a lifetime. It seems really unfair to deny the average fan that same experience.

 

[vegster]

flourish for who ? certainly not the working class who are getting priced out

or you mean flourish for the shareholders and fat cats

I know it is hard to believe but there is a huge number of people who are financially very flush with cash. The working class are getting priced out but there are plenty of people out there, who can spend £30K on a 4x4 they don't really need, to them the price of a season ticket is as nothing.

 

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

Would not have swapped growing up in the 70's with all the chaos and excitement,great times but glad my kids didn't have to grow up in this period and all we have to worry about now is trying to swerve R R ramblings

indeed, this is too weird to get my head round.....I look back on everything I went through in the North Stand c1978 and all the aways in the early 80's with very fond memories and an attitude of "it made me what I am" etc. Now I'm a parent If things stayed the same I'd never let 'the boy' go to the match until he was 21.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Been clearing up and found a copy of the Foul* annual from 1974. There's a letter from one Andy Kenrick that really caught my eye.

"What the hell is all this we keep hearing about family football? ... Football is not about covered stadiums, padded seats, ice cream, women and kids. It's about hitching, getting pissed, shouting, swaying, standing pushing, pissing on your boots ... and, if you feel like it, aggro....
What next? A ban on singing? No scarves allowed? No standing? It's coming, unless we do something about it."

It's interesting that in the same book, there's talk about the decline in attendances. Wonder how Mr Kenrick feels now when he sees the packed-out all-seating stadiums.


* For younger readers: Foul was a precursor to the likes of When Saturday Comes. Probably not so well-written nor as funny, but a bit harder-hitting.