[News] The future of faith: young people switched off?

[daveinprague]

All religion is written by man. No 'God' involved in any of it.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Another one not surprised. And it's not just the young - I'm nearly fifty and have gone from a light believer through agnostic to complete and utter non-believer. I think western world is gradually waking up to reality. What annoys me is that if someone believes in a God most people still think they're sane. Say you believe in unicorns and fairies and you're considered mad. Both are equally daft.

Sorry to annoy you....not that it will change my view

 

[Washie]

Genuine question from (and this is obvious) someone who isn't religious in the slightest.

Can you be Christian and believe in dinosaurs?

I'm willing to be educated.

Yes, and a lot of Christians do. Genesis is now considered to be a more cautionary tale. What would happen if you disobey God and the like.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Genuine question from (and this is obvious) someone who isn't religious in the slightest.

Can you be Christian and believe in dinosaurs?

I'm willing to be educated.

Of course you can. Bit of a silly question.

'Christian' doesn't mean 'Fundamentalist Evangelical Fruitcake'. At least, it doesn't for most.

For most people I've encountered of a Christian faith, the Bible and scriptures are not something to be taken in any way as factual or as a set of rules. More just a set of stories, from which a set of morals and guidance can be inferred.

 

[daveinprague]

Yes, and a lot of Christians do. Genesis is now considered to be a more cautionary tale. What would happen if you disobey God and the like.

Its that sort of talk that makes people disbelieve. Who is 'considering' it to be a cautionary tale? God, or some man?

Its nonsense in my eyes. All of it. Written by man for control purposes.

 

[studio150]

Faith? No. Christianity? Yes.

Can you have Christianity without having faith?

How many people still when presented with a survey or asked as a hospital patient will say CofE without any thought, despite the fact that the only time they go to Church is for a wedding/funeral/Christening.

Is that having faith or having Christianity.

How many people accept the invitation to be a god parent to a new born child of a family member or close friend, although they seldom if ever go to Church or still believe, and do they keep to the requirements of the Church of being a god parent.

Or even worse in my view, parents who have their children christened, effectively just for the occasion rather than for religious significan

Sermon over

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Or even worse in my view, parents who have their children christened, effectively just for the occasion rather than for religious significance.

That is very unfair. No parents have their kids Christened, just for the party.




(It's also so they can get into the right school...)

 

[Seagull]

I regularly ask "Equality & Diversity" questions on a helpline to people of all ages. I'd say in excess of 90% of respondents to "Do you follow any particular religion or belief" say "no". A subjective experience,yes, but one that supports the trend described.

 

[jcdenton08]

Can you have Christianity without having faith?

How many people still when presented with a survey or asked as a hospital patient will say CofE without any thought, despite the fact that the only time they go to Church is for a wedding/funeral/Christening.

Is that having faith or having Christianity.

How many people accept the invitation to be a god parent to a new born child of a family member or close friend, although they seldom if ever go to Church or still believe, and do they keep to the requirements of the Church of being a god parent.

Or even worse in my view, parents who have their children christened, effectively just for the occasion rather than for religious significan

Sermon over

There is a difference between religion and faith. In this country, the Queen is the head of the Church of England as constitutional monarch. The entire fundaments of this country's social structure has been built on the dated tenets of marriage, Christmas, church funerals regardless of faith. Christianity is indigenous to this country through centuries of assimilation. Only in recent years have things like marriage, christenings and so forth become less common because civil laws have changed, giving people a choice to live independently of any church. In the past, they had none. In the past being CofE, even if only to marry within the church, gave you "benefits".

With this change having happened imperceptibly over the last *insert opinion of time since the church had status*, the fundaments of religion - it's very purpose, i.e. to shape a society to its values, is irrelevant.

Essentially, the more liberal the church has become, the less relevant it is to anybody. This is why Islam, a comparatively hard-line religion requiring salah several times daily, rather than MAYBE on Christmas Eve, is a much stronger force for those who have already been indoctrinated into what to believe.

 

[jcdenton08]

I regularly ask "Equality & Diversity" questions on a helpline to people of all ages. I'd say in excess of 90% of respondents to "Do you follow any particular religion or belief" say "no". A subjective experience,yes, but one that supports the trend described.

How many of those people are ethnic minorities of South Asian or Middle Eastern descent, out of interest? Not trying to prove a point, just curious to see in your experience how many people from Muslim countries do not identify as Muslims, compared to White British who identify as Agnostic.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Sorry to annoy you....not that it will change my view

Annoys is probably over egging it really.

If I said I had some magic beans that could grow a huge beanstalk to a castle with a giant in it in the sky I'd be derided.
If I said I rode unicorns around my garden each evening I'd be derided.
If I said I'd had a messages from the fairies in the local forest that the world was about to end I'd be derided.
If I said I believed in an all encompassing being that had a son via a virgin who carried out some remarkable miracles and rose from the dead I'd be called a Christian and considered sane.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Annoys is probably over egging it really.

If I said I had some magic beans that could grow a huge beanstalk to a castle with a giant in it in the sky I'd be derided.
If I said I rode unicorns around my garden each evening I'd be derided.
If I said I'd had a messages from the fairies in the local forest that the world was about to end I'd be derided.
If I said I believed in an all encompassing being that had a son via a virgin who carried out some remarkable miracles and rose from the dead I'd be called a Christian and considered sane.

You wouldn't happen to have an Amazon link for these beans, would you ?

 

[Silverhatch]

Can you have Christianity without having faith?

How many people still when presented with a survey or asked as a hospital patient will say CofE without any thought, despite the fact that the only time they go to Church is for a wedding/funeral/Christening.

Is that having faith or having Christianity.

How many people accept the invitation to be a god parent to a new born child of a family member or close friend, although they seldom if ever go to Church or still believe, and do they keep to the requirements of the Church of being a god parent.

Or even worse in my view, parents who have their children christened, effectively just for the occasion rather than for religious significan

Sermon over

The reason so many do this, especially of a certain generation, is that we were taught/indoctrinated into the Christian faith. Religious education (RE) as it was back in my day in the 60s and 70s, gave you very little latitude to think outside of some strict norms. Religious studies (RS) as taught today looks at the ethics of religions (well, that's what my daughter tells me). I have never believed but, up until about 15 years ago, would blindly say CofE and do the same for my young children. When given the opportunity now I say no religion. I let my children make their own mind up - although religion in the round has sparked the most interesting debates around our meal times.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Annoys is probably over egging it really.

If I said I had some magic beans that could grow a huge beanstalk to a castle with a giant in it in the sky I'd be derided.
If I said I rode unicorns around my garden each evening I'd be derided.
If I said I'd had a messages from the fairies in the local forest that the world was about to end I'd be derided.
If I said I believed in an all encompassing being that had a son via a virgin who carried out some remarkable miracles and rose from the dead I'd be called a Christian and considered sane.

Hang on are you saying this isn't true? Dam!

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Of course you can. Bit of a silly question.

'Christian' doesn't mean 'Fundamentalist Evangelical Fruitcake'. At least, it doesn't for most.

For most people I've encountered of a Christian faith, the Bible and scriptures are not something to be taken in any way as factual or as a set of rules. More just a set of stories, from which a set of morals and guidance can be inferred.

I don't think it's a silly question.

If you believe in the story of how the earth was created in however many days it was, then I've never quite understood where dinosaurs fit in, or evolution.

Again, I'm naïve and not a Christian or even remotely religious so am completely willing to be informed.

And on the point of not being completely engrossed in the faith but instead choosing to take on the morals.......aren't the morals things like don't be a ****, break the law and kill people? I'd say those are things anyone would aim to stick to.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I don't think it's a silly question.

If you believe in the story of how the earth was created in however many days it was, then I've never quite understood where dinosaurs fit in, or evolution.

Again, I'm naïve and not a Christian or even remotely religious so am completely willing to be informed.

And on the point of not being completely engrossed in the faith but instead choosing to take on the morals.......aren't the morals things like don't be a ****, break the law and kill people? I'd say those are things anyone would aim to stick to.

But that is the point - unless we are talking only about fundamentalist CREATIONISTS, then Christians almost to a man, do NOT 'believe a story about the earth being created in however many days'.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

But that is the point - unless we are talking only about fundamentalist CREATIONISTS, then Christians almost to a man, do NOT 'believe a story about the earth being created in however many days'.

So you can pick and choose which bits of the story to believe? Do some CHRISTians not believe in Christ?

 

[BadFish]

Maybe this explains why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. Maybe the others aren't growing at all?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

So you can pick and choose which bits of the story to believe? Do some CHRISTians not believe in Christ?

I'm the wrong person to ask, as not in the slightest bit religious (of any flavour). Just correcting an obvious misconception.

But from my (limited) experience, the answer to even that question is yes - that they are free to not take any part of the bible completely literally. Some will believe absolutely in the story of Christ - who he was, where he came from, everything he is said to have done. Others will believe there was somebody real who achieved some of these things, and that the stories outline a set of principles to aim to live by.

 

[Seagull]

Essentially, the more liberal the church has become, the less relevant it is to anybody. This is why Islam, a comparatively hard-line religion requiring salah several times daily, rather than MAYBE on Christmas Eve, is a much stronger force for those who have already been indoctrinated into what to believe.

The point about prayer is a good one. I've stayed with an extended Muslim family a couple if times in Indonesia and the discipline of everyone stopping what they were doing five times a day to pray seemed incredibly powerful to me, particularly as a cohesive force among the group, imbuing Islam as part of life. I've also been lucky enough to visit after school Koran classes at my local mosque in the U.K. where up to 100 kids from five upwards were learning and reciting the words of the holy book in Arabic. These examples show an inculcation of the religious principles which would be much more unusual among Christian groups, at least in this country I imagine.