[Albion] The first goal that Arsenal conceded yesterday.............

[Saunders]

It seems logical that if the opposition are going to leave two or three players up to hassle your defenders at a goal kick then hoof the ball upfield to a target man. If the opposition retreat than pass it around and build from the back. That IS too simplistic isn’t it?

Arsenal yesterday kept trying to pass it around whilst being pressed, time after time after time. Thick

Thats what they want you to do its so easy to win a humped up ball to nobody in particular shall i add a lol yea why not lolllllzzzzerr. Obviously we should vary it and we did after 20 mins but the majority of the time we will be looking to play it out.

 

[Swansman]

Only it wasn't the first time it's happened - Man City conceded to Norwich in the same manner on Saturday.

I agree with the sentiment though - sides putting themselves under ridiculous pressure like this in their own box is crazy.

Well there is reasons why Pep & Emery etc are coaching these teams and you arent, no offense.

If you kick the ball long you usually have less than 50% chance of keeping possession unless you have Xavi in goal and Jan Koller up front. City/Arsenal (and Brighton and a lot of other teams for that matter) actually want their opponents to put you under that initial pressure as their movements create lots of space in midfield if you can play through the pressure. Data and general development/optimization just made every decent coach understand that randomly kicking the ball long to see what happens just isnt good enough.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

We done similar up at West Ham when Poyet was in charge. Stupid brainless shit. 3-0 down after 10 minutes all self inflicted. Earliest I have ever left a ground 15 minutes, people were still coming in!

 

[Quinney]

The Watford player who closed the ball down initially was in the box when the goal kick happened. Missed by the ref, but not reviewed by VAR as it was a restart? I agree with VAR (mostly) but that would have been a straight forward goal to rule out.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Postman Pat]

Yet no one has mentioned that Norwich scored their second goal against City doing exactly this.

City pushed up, created space in midfield and Norwich had a 4 on 4 and scored.

As they said on MNF last night, one week they will be saying how stupid it is and the next they will be saying how brilliant this is. Our players need to be a bit smarter and work out when to do it and when to go long.

 

[Bozza]

Well there is reasons why Pep & Emery etc are coaching these teams and you arent, no offense.

If you kick the ball long you usually have less than 50% chance of keeping possession unless you have Xavi in goal and Jan Koller up front. City/Arsenal (and Brighton and a lot of other teams for that matter) actually want their opponents to put you under that initial pressure as their movements create lots of space in midfield if you can play through the pressure. Data and general development/optimization just made every decent coach understand that randomly kicking the ball long to see what happens just isnt good enough.

I'm well aware of all of that, no offence (we use a 'c' not an 's' over here).

 

[Gazwag]

The time waster is for keeper to flick it up onto head of defender who heads it back.

That loop hole was closed after the first team did it in a pre season friendly

 

[Easy 10]

The Watford player who closed the ball down initially was in the box when the goal kick happened. Missed by the ref, but not reviewed by VAR as it was a restart? I agree with VAR (mostly) but that would have been a straight forward goal to rule out.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I'm amazed more wasn't made of this. It was effectively encroachment, and led directly to a goal.

It was funny though.

 

[schmunk]

The Watford player who closed the ball down initially was in the box when the goal kick happened. Missed by the ref, but not reviewed by VAR as it was a restart? I agree with VAR (mostly) but that would have been a straight forward goal to rule out.

I don't agree - it looks to me like he timed it perfectly.

https://streamja.com/p1wX

 

[jamie (not that one)]

I wonder how many goals have been conceded from a goal kick which goes to the opposition and they score? I'm not going to bother checking but I'm sure it'll happen just as many times as the Arsenal/City incidents.

 

[schmunk]

I wonder how many goals have been conceded from a goal kick which goes to the opposition and they score? I'm not going to bother checking but I'm sure it'll happen just as many times as the Arsenal/City incidents.

This is, of course, the main reason for playing out from the back - to retain possession and pass the ball up the field, rather than hit and hope.

Not perfect stats (being MLS from 2016), but this analysis indicates that only 33% of hoofs into the opposition's half result in retained possession: https://www.americansocceranalysis....ion-goalkeepers-stop-kicking-those-long-balls

 

[blue-shifted]

Goals kicks now need to be rehearsed like any set piece. The key to this is that the whole team is involved in the goal kick. So if opposition strikers are closing down Dunk and Duffy then the wing backs need to be on the wing, someone needs to be breaking from midfield in behind their defence and a striker needs to be dropping deep. This can't be random. It's crucial that Maty and the centre backs if they get it know where runners are going. ( Maty can bounce the ball a set number of times or something, so everyone knows what to do).

If we can't master this moderate level of complexity, we need to get back to hoofing it to Muzza

 

[Swansman]

Goals kicks now need to be rehearsed like any set piece. The key to this is that the whole team is involved in the goal kick. So if opposition strikers are closing down Dunk and Duffy then the wing backs need to be on the wing, someone needs to be breaking from midfield in behind their defence and a striker needs to be dropping deep. This can't be random. It's crucial that Maty and the centre backs if they get it know where runners are going. ( Maty can bounce the ball a set number of times or something, so everyone knows what to do).

If we can't master this moderate level of complexity, we need to get back to hoofing it to Muzza

In Swansea last season we would usually play it short but on occasion have different strategies for kicking it long (such as placing McBurnie on the wing at goal kicks so he would duel a wing back rather than some tall, strong central defender). The key was however that our goalie, Kristoffer Nordfeldt, is an excellent passer. Ryan isnt, which is one of the main reasons I think you'll be looking for a new keeper in due time.

 

[blue-shifted]

In Swansea last season we would usually play it short but on occasion have different strategies for kicking it long (such as placing McBurnie on the wing at goal kicks so he would duel a wing back rather than some tall, strong central defender). The key was however that our goalie, Kristoffer Nordfeldt, is an excellent passer. Ryan isnt, which is one of the main reasons I think you'll be looking for a new keeper in due time.

Maty was banging it out to Dan Burn on the touchline every time he had it in the first half yesterday. He's pretty hard to miss.

Maty isn't Ederson, but he's not the worst either distribution-wise. Would Potter want Nordfeldt back?

 

[Meade's Ball]

I think you need a mix - I also think you need players / coaches good enough and clever enough to pull it off. It works if you’re not being pressed tooooo much but there were occasions on Saturday it wasn’t working (at the start of the game when their energy levels were good).

This, basically. There have to be options. We looked bamboozled, as if such an occurrence, of Burnley positioning themselves to make it difficult, may never occur.
One of my problems with it is that new methods unavoidably invite opinion, and at the game, in the North Stand, the endless cry of FOR GOD'S SAKE JUST KICK IT LONG, again and again. They weren't entirely wrong, but i just get a bit peeved at commentary and advice during matches.

 

[Swansman]

Would Potter want Nordfeldt back?

No. While he is excellent with his feet, he is really shit generally speaking.

 

[Quinney]

I don't agree - it looks to me like he timed it perfectly.

https://streamja.com/p1wX

Sky seemed to suggest he was inside, although the ridiculous thing about it is that VAR wouldn’t have stepped in anyway even if it was a clear infringement which led to a goal.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Easy 10]

Sky seemed to suggest he was inside, although the ridiculous thing about it is that VAR wouldn’t have stepped in anyway even if it was a clear infringement which led to a goal.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Why not ?

Its stepped in already this season for encroachment when a penalty was saved and then cleared by the encroacher.

As livid as I'd have been if BHA had conceded the comedy goal Arsenal did, I'd be even more annoyed if VAR failed to rule on encroachment at a goal kick that led directly to a goal being scored.

 

[Quinney]

Why not ?

Its stepped in already this season for encroachment when a penalty was saved and then cleared by the encroacher.

As livid as I'd have been if BHA had conceded the comedy goal Arsenal did, I'd be even more annoyed if VAR failed to rule on encroachment at a goal kick that led directly to a goal being scored.

Apparently as it was a “restart” VAR did not adjudicate. Not sure what the thinking is behind a “restart” infringement being any different to any others but that’s the rules apparently (as per the match commentary) More VAR BS.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Machiavelli]

I think you need a mix - I also think you need players / coaches good enough and clever enough to pull it off. It works if you’re not being pressed tooooo much but there were occasions on Saturday it wasn’t working (at the start of the game when their energy levels were good).

Well done for being the first on this thread to provide the right answer.