The euro Greece and goodbye,

[dangull]

We need to vote no to avoid the fate of the Greeks.

At least we avoided the euro which a lot of people supported at the time.

We need control over our borders on our small island.

Vote to leave the EU, like the spitfires and hurricanes did in 1940

 

[Triggaaar]

I would imagine, like here, a sizable chunk of Greeks didn't actually vote for the governments that got in. So should these people have to suffer third world medical services where people are left on chairs to die, where pain relief is too expensive to have and where patients have to take in their own bed sheets ?

No, it's a good point.

The French and the Germans utterly broke the rules by allowing Greece to join the Euro for nothing more that political and power reasons.

Another good point.

Now the EU and the Germans are happy to see Greeks dying on the street just to save their political experiment. They would rather impose harsher and harsher rules on Greece than actually help them.

That's not such a fair comment. It's not like there's a simple solution - or any solution at all.

 

[GT49er]

First crack in the rotten edifice that is the Euro and the EU. Perhaps with luck it will escalate and the whole thing will come crashing down, leaving all the fat cats and bureaucrats staring at the bottom of an empty trough. We wouldn't even need that s0dding referendum then. Bring it on!

 

[The Spanish]

I see where you're coming from, but of those which voted they did vote for the current coalition. This is how democracy works....and the Greeks of all nations should know.

Why, because they were under ottoman rule for centuries, or because they were under undemocratic regimes for a large part of the last? Greeks have not experienced much democracy in the modern age.

Pointing out you know that democracy started in Greece is all well and good, but has almost zero relevance to their current culture. It's a tenuous link at best. But then that's generally not the reason people bring it up. Generally its to let people know they know about it.

Far more relevant is the argument that ottoman oppression and lack of democracy, and oppressive and punitive tax regimes led to low level resistance and a culture of avoidance to a bullying regime, a bit like today. Much more appropriate.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Why, because they were under ottoman rule for centuries, or because they were under undemocratic regimes for a large part of the last? Greeks have not experienced much democracy in the modern age.

Pointing out you know that democracy started in Greece is all well and good, but has almost zero relevance to their current culture. It's a tenuous link at best. But then that's generally not the reason people bring it up. Generally its to let people know they know about it.

Far more relevant is the argument that ottoman oppression and lack of democracy, and oppressive and punitive tax regimes led to low level resistance and a culture of avoidance to a bullying regime, a bit like today. Much more appropriate.

AND WE HELPED THEM DEFEAT THE COMMUNIST'S AFTER THE END OF WW2
regards
DR

 

[cunning fergus]

But you never really explain anything do you? You come up with sound bites, attach a thousand links which support your sound bite and then when you get really pressed on the subject you disappear.

So, the bit I have highlighted, are you willing to explain YOUR thoughts on why this is? Without resorting to hundreds of links? As let's face it you can find a link backing anything on the internet.

Interesting view you have given the extensive circular debates we have had on the EU and politics more generally.

I doubt this debate would end any different either, you have a bottomless well of good faith in the EU project, I despise the EU as it is. In short I only care about the UK's interests and you don't. I only support the interests British working class and you don't. Politically I am old school Labour you are an old school tie tory............we just won't agree.

I don't see why I need to explain my statement given the prevailing economic situations in many of the EU member states today, and not least given British taxpayers NET contribution including the 2.5% of VAT that goes to the EU.

So there you are Margaret, and not a single link for you to ignore.

 

[Winker]

My take on the forthcoming referendum is that Cameron has screwed up badly. Having promised us a referendum in 2010 and then reneged on it, he has no option now but to give us one. He is at heart a europhile but is begging Emperor Merkel to give him a few crumbs to placate his party (not the people).

What we really need in this country is an open, non-partisan, free and fair commission to look at our position in the EU, to report on all the pros and cons and do a full cost/benefit analysis of our membership. Only after the commission has reported, in full, should we then have a referendum. This is too important for petty party politics.

I would also add that this procedure should take place at regular intervals - every 20 years maybe?

 

[The Merry Prankster]

I see where you're coming from, but of those which voted they did vote for the current coalition. This is how democracy works....and the Greeks of all nations should know.

You can't be on the side of the people and of the EU in this. What they are doing is barbaric. The EU is supposed to be about mutual support, turns out it's anything but.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...-shows-Greece-literally-dying-leave-Euro.html

 

[beorhthelm]

My take on the forthcoming referendum is that Cameron has screwed up badly. Having promised us a referendum in 2010 and then reneged on it, he has no option now but to give us one. He is at heart a europhile but is begging Emperor Merkel to give him a few crumbs to placate his party (not the people).

well, he's hardly screwed up then, giving an impression of a great choice while offering what we already have with a few tweeks. and it very much is the people, not the party he is trying to placate. those in politics against the EU tend to be so on grounds of principle such as sovereignty. (immigration is a new thing thats really only come up in the past decade following the Polish then Romanian inclusion). they wont be swayed by a few crumbs. Cameron has picked most his battles, issues that have common ground with the Germans and other northern Europeans. just a couple of high profile issues, nicely giving the perception of a big battle, allude him. but then the PR machine will swing in later to explain how those arent so much to worry about. no, the referendum and negotions as a prelude to it, is being orchestrate to deliver a Yes vote.

 

[Hampster Gull]

We need to vote no to avoid the fate of the Greeks.

At least we avoided the euro which a lot of people supported at the time.

We need control over our borders on our small island.

Vote to leave the EU, like the spitfires and hurricanes did in 1940

The spitfires and hurricanes didnt have a vote

 

[pastafarian]

Interesting view you have given the extensive circular debates we have had on the EU and politics more generally.

I doubt this debate would end any different either, you have a bottomless well of good faith in the EU project, I despise the EU as it is. In short I only care about the UK's interests and you don't. I only support the interests British working class and you don't. Politically I am old school Labour you are an old school tie tory............we just won't agree.

I don't see why I need to explain my statement given the prevailing economic situations in many of the EU member states today, and not least given British taxpayers NET contribution including the 2.5% of VAT that goes to the EU.

So there you are Margaret, and not a single link for you to ignore.

This with bells on

The EU has shafted the working class in this country.I cant for the life of me understand why the new labour lot wish to embrace this institution as much as they do.

I am old school tory(even though certain people accuse me of being leftie) and even i agree with trade union organisations and socialist groups on this issue. The EU is bad for Britain,massive change is needed or get out.

 

[pastafarian]

The spitfires and hurricanes didnt have a vote

i like to think they did in an odd sort of way

would you ever vote against the two greatest fighter planes in the history of mankind?