The establishment and historic child sex abuse

[spring hall convert]

The irony of course, of invoking 'innocent til proven guilty' in the Janner case is that had he not been protected by decisions that the CPS now admit were wrong twice, he would have actually had a trial.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'd say 99.

As good a number as any I suppose. Seriously though there seems to be a bit of a salem witch/ McCarthyism mentality on this thread, is there really no such thing as false or opportunistic allegations?

 

[spring hall convert]

As good a number as any I suppose. Seriously though there seems to be a bit of a salem witch/ McCarthyism mentality on this thread, is there really no such thing as false or opportunistic allegations?

Of course there are false allegations but there have also been cover ups that have meant genuine allegations have not been investigated. As above the irony of invoking 'innocent til proven guilty' in the Janner case is that had either of the two prior opportunities to prosecute him been taken this conversation might not be a hypothetical.

 

[spring hall convert]

It was actually 3 times the CPS admit that Janner's case passed the evidential test. 4 if you count the final proceedings that he also escaped.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...pped-me-exposing-greville-janner-25-years-ago

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Of course there are false allegations but there have also been cover ups that have meant genuine allegations have not been investigated. As above the irony of invoking 'innocent til proven guilty' in the Janner case is that had either of the two prior opportunities to prosecute him been taken this conversation might not be a hypothetical.

Very true this should have been settled one way or the other many years ago. If as you say the evidential test had been met then shame on those who deliberately or otherwise made decisions that stopped this coming to trial.

 

[spring hall convert]

http://news.sky.com/story/1610295/care-home-resident-janner-was-regular-visitor

So who is the other living man that was recognised. Could this be our member of Tony Blair's cabinet that was and presumably still is being protected?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...icials-told-child-sex-claims-1995-report.html

Good to see Michael Howard using the Leon Brittan approach here. Unless it was hidden from him, we can't seriously believe that he wouldn't remember seeing this file?

I reckon proceedings against Janner might have dragged in bigger fish.

 

[spring hall convert]

'Lord Janner 'abused 12 at children's homes' (from BBC)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35304528

 

[gregbrighton]

It's sickening that the establishment are protecting these people.

 

[glasfryn]

It's sickening that the establishment are protecting these people.

whats also sickening is the time lapse, some complaints made over 20 years ago.
one little glimmer of hope is these poor people can now take out private prosecutions

 

[Pavilionaire]

It's sickening that the establishment are protecting these people.

It's a good job for him he never appeared on Top Of The Pops, that seems to be the decisive factor in cases like this.

 

[spring hall convert]

It's a good job for him he never appeared on Top Of The Pops, that seems to be the decisive factor in cases like this.

Apart from people that appeared on TOTP that were close friends with Prime Ministers and Royalty of course.

 

[gregbrighton]

http://news.sky.com/story/1610295/care-home-resident-janner-was-regular-visitor

So who is the other living man that was recognised. Could this be our member of Tony Blair's cabinet that was and presumably still is being protected?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...icials-told-child-sex-claims-1995-report.html

Good to see Michael Howard using the Leon Brittan approach here. Unless it was hidden from him, we can't seriously believe that he wouldn't remember seeing this file?

I reckon proceedings against Janner might have dragged in bigger fish.

Is it the "I'm a fighter, not a quitter!" MP?

 

[spring hall convert]

Is it the "I'm a fighter, not a quitter!" MP?

Whilst I am aware there are many rumours around that individual, no.

This one is still an MP.

 

[glasfryn]

http://news.sky.com/story/1610295/care-home-resident-janner-was-regular-visitor

So who is the other living man that was recognised. Could this be our member of Tony Blair's cabinet that was and presumably still is being protected?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...icials-told-child-sex-claims-1995-report.html

Good to see Michael Howard using the Leon Brittan approach here. Unless it was hidden from him, we can't seriously believe that he wouldn't remember seeing this file?

I reckon proceedings against Janner might have dragged in bigger fish.

did'nt Ann Widdicombe say of him "he has something of the night about him" or something of the like,also he was the HS who blamed prison officers for the breakout of three prisoners from Parkhurst because the walked around with their keys showing and could be copied ................................what from several yards? I doubt you could copy them if you had them in a vice in a workshop
the man was and still is an idiot ................blame anyone but himself.
and bigger fish you say, probably but now as the case has been dropped(a bit like a hot potato) it will be left to the victims to flush them out.

 

[simmo]

did'nt Ann Widdicombe say of him "he has something of the night about him" or something of the like,also he was the HS who blamed prison officers for the breakout of three prisoners from Parkhurst because the walked around with their keys showing and could be copied ................................what from several yards? I doubt you could copy them if you had them in a vice in a workshop
the man was and still is an idiot ................blame anyone but himself.
and bigger fish you say, probably but now as the case has been dropped(a bit like a hot potato) it will be left to the victims to flush them out.

Slightly off subject, but the case you are refering to in respect of the keys is true. There was a program on Discovery or similar and the escapee was talking about it. On all the doors in their escape route there was only one type of key that opened all locks and he made it a suitable key in the workshop just by viewing it and then drawing it by memory in his cell in the evenings and tweaking it until it worked. It is amazing at times to think what can be done. There was another one from South Africa where a man made over time about 8 different "keys" out of wood to escape, that was just incredible (his door to his cell was a double locked door, the second door of which the lock could only be accessed on the outside, he somehow put that key on the end of a broom to open it). The ingenuity of some people at times is just unreal.

 

[gregbrighton]

It's a good job for him he never appeared on Top Of The Pops, that seems to be the decisive factor in cases like this.

The French Christmas present guy isn't involved in anything?

 

[glasfryn]

Slightly off subject, but the case you are refering to in respect of the keys is true. There was a program on Discovery or similar and the escapee was talking about it. On all the doors in their escape route there was only one type of key that opened all locks and he made it a suitable key in the workshop just by viewing it and then drawing it by memory in his cell in the evenings and tweaking it until it worked. It is amazing at times to think what can be done. There was another one from South Africa where a man made over time about 8 different "keys" out of wood to escape, that was just incredible (his door to his cell was a double locked door, the second door of which the lock could only be accessed on the outside, he somehow put that key on the end of a broom to open it). The ingenuity of some people at times is just unreal.

this is impossible as there is no key opening on the inside of a cell door + the key is different to open doors and gates.
as a prison officer of nearly 10 years I have seen many supposed keys that had been made none of which ever worked and some by "supposed" experts.
how anyone can say that by looking at a glance and copying a very complicated key from a distance is living on another planet.
it was suspected at the time that some keys were stolen used and replaced, which is the more believable.
all keys carried by prison officers are hidden by the flap on all jackets on a hook on the belt, and believe me they were a bloody nuisance

 

[spring hall convert]

Interesting that The Lord Bramall announcement keeps Janner off the front pages.

 

[Lenny Rider]

How much significance is the downfall of Simon Danczuk in all this?

Although he was a total idiot sending those texts was he actually set up in an elaborate honey trap, which discredited him and stopped him bringing out more revelations about people who still might be alive and risk prosecution?

 

[gregbrighton]

More likely to be a form of 'revenge' from the left. He has been somewhat outspoken and troublesome since Corbyn stood and was elected as party leader.