[Misc] The end for petrol cars ?

[Brovion]

As a Fiesta owner what I found sad about the story was apparently no one wants them any more, everyone wants SUVs. Fiestas are deemed to be too small. (And the Fiesta itself has increased in size from its original incarnation in 1977 to the extent where its only three inches shorter than the Escort was when it was discontinued!)

You haven't got to come the full 'Stat Brother' to want to bang your head against a wall if people think the answer to our transport problems is 'bigger cars'.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think it's fair to say that virtually ALL Mini's are driven either by girls with a pony tail or dickheads.

I haven’t had a ponytail since I was 13 but I loved my mini and would have one now, if the original was still produced. I could even do my own maintenance on it.

 

[dazzer6666]

A Fiesta XR2 was the first decent car I bought after a succession of cheap but enjoyable bangers (mini, Mk III cortina, Toyota Corolla). Was working in Jersey at the time where nearly-new cars were way cheaper than in the UK (some loophole allowing new cars to be used in the rental market for a short time before being sold without VAT I think). Absolutely loved it - used to get the ferry to the UK instead of flying just so I could come over and give the car a blast. Eventually traded it in for a Mini Metro when we moved to Guernsey because the Mrs was driving to work and I wasn’t

 

[Worried Man Blues]

I miss my Jag XK8 automatic but flew when you hit the floor, I do like the Old Brighton Postcard thread for the old cars and trying to identify them

 

[Madafwo]

It's not just the Fiesta though, they've already got rid of the Focus and the Mondeo so they won't actually make a family car, they'll all be variations on SUVs of which I have zero interest in owning which is a shame as I love Ford cars but I simply won't be able to own one in the future.

 

[Audax]

A pal of mine was a motor mechanic.. he hated Ford's, he said they were all engineered to last 80,000 miles while every other car brand aimed for 100,000 +

And if you were unlucky enough to buy an Ecoboost version, you'd be lucky to get 40k before it needed work. My Mrs had a Ka that she loved, so when it came time to replace we plumped for a brand new Focus Ecoboost. Unfortunately, was a 2016 model ... which was peak "Ecoboom". Sold it with 45k on the clock having already had remedial work done (at Ford's expense) on the cooling system twice (edit: including engine gasket changes that were typically a precursor to full engine failure / replacement territory).

I need to do some maths on electric cars.

How expensive does electricity need to be before the cost of a EV battery recharge to do 400 miles becomes more expensive that petrol [or diesel] to do 400 miles.

Okay, I acknowledge there is a fossil fuel argument too - so when will be at a point where NONE of our power stations burn fossil fuel to generate electricity?

Not wishing to appear a luddite, but is this really the right time to switch to EVs?

Maths won't add up for everyone just yet. However, for those who are willing and able to commit early and do their research and change behaviour patterns to *make* it work etc it will always add up. The calculations are a lot more complicated than just "how much does fuel cost for 400 miles vs how much does electric cost":

1. Can you put in a home charger and charge at home? If so:
2. Can you access an electric supplier who does cheap over night rates (eg Octopus Go tariff)
3. Can you install home solar? If so and the answer to 1. was Yes, then:
4. Also install a smart home charger to take advantage of any excess solar generation to charge the car.
5. Do you (or are you willing to) do your grocery shop at a Tesco with a carpark?
6. If so - download the podpoint app and charge for free while you do your shop (and dawdle rather than rushing to get it done)
7. Does your employer offer charging points, and if so do they provide it free or at a cheap rate?
8. How many miles are you doing (and are they done as lots of short trips, or as fewer longer trips? Just like a petrol car, range is reduced when doing lots of short trips)
9. What's the local infrastructure like for getting a charge away from home?

And then beyond the simple side of "how much does it cost to do 400 miles?" you've got all of the other cost-of-ownership expenses: road tax (a lot lower for an EV), maintenance (should be cheaper for an EV), tyres, insurance.

I've had a Zoe for a couple of years now. I can safely say it's a *lot* cheaper to run than our self-charging hybrid Prius is, and that in turn is cheaper than the Ecoboom Ford Focus was. However, I'm in a bit of a sweet spot when it comes to EV ownership:

1. Already had solar installed.
2. Have off-road parking.
3. Was able to switch to Octopus Go.
4. Get free charging at the office.
5. Already shop at Tesco.

The vast majority of my charging is done for free, and the charging that I pay for is at home at 7.5p / kwh.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I will 100% be keeping at least one, it will be an Alfa

Just about to take delivery of a petrol powered pre 2015 car. Firstly to escape the dullness of electric vehicles, and secondly to ensure that I have a vehicle that actually can be ‘off the grid’, rather than everything since then that can found whatever, many can access your data from your phone, and now most can be at least partially controlled remotely.

I may well use a loan/pool vehicle one day, but my fossil burner will be my love in automotive terms.

 

[raymondo]

I need to do some maths on electric cars.

How expensive does electricity need to be before the cost of a EV battery recharge to do 400 miles becomes more expensive that petrol [or diesel] to do 400 miles.

Okay, I acknowledge there is a fossil fuel argument too - so when will be at a point where NONE of our power stations burn fossil fuel to generate electricity?

Not wishing to appear a luddite, but is this really the right time to switch to EVs?

Without any research...... I believe charging from a public chargepoint is now about 50 -60% cost of petrol?? cheaper from home of course.

 

[raymondo]

I have had, over the decades, a Cortina estate, Cortina Sports, ano Cortina estate, Fiesta, Mondeo, Fiesta.... now I'm on a Tucson cos I prefer it to an equivalent Ford. But Fords were good for me, very few problems, the luck of the draw.

 

[GT49er]

As a Fiesta owner what I found sad about the story was apparently no one wants them any more, everyone wants SUVs. Fiestas are deemed to be too small. (And the Fiesta itself has increased in size from its original incarnation in 1977 to the extent where its only three inches shorter than the Escort was when it was discontinued!)

You haven't got to come the full 'Stat Brother' to want to bang your head against a wall if people think the answer to our transport problems is 'bigger cars'.

It's happened to most models over the years, small cars anyway. I'm sure the most recent Fiestas are about the size of a MkI Cortina! Toyota added a foot to the length of a Yaris in one year's update.
The new minis are bigger than a MkI Escort! ........... and don't talk to me about the new Fiat 500s - you could almost put one of the original 500s inside, and still have room for a driver!

 

[schmunk]

There is a fairly good reason why cars have become larger over the years...

[edit to add: there are even some Fiestas featured at about the 5 minute mark]

 

[The Wizard]

The real Ford Fiesta died in the early 2000’s late 90’s anyway, Fiestas nowadays are a shadow of what they once were, most modern cars are very similar to each other nowadays… whether you buy a Peugeot 108 or a Ford Fiesta.

 

[GOM]

And if you were unlucky enough to buy an Ecoboost version, you'd be lucky to get 40k before it needed work. My Mrs had a Ka that she loved, so when it came time to replace we plumped for a brand new Focus Ecoboost. Unfortunately, was a 2016 model ... which was peak "Ecoboom". Sold it with 45k on the clock having already had remedial work done (at Ford's expense) on the cooling system twice (edit: including engine gasket changes that were typically a precursor to full engine failure / replacement territory).



Maths won't add up for everyone just yet. However, for those who are willing and able to commit early and do their research and change behaviour patterns to *make* it work etc it will always add up. The calculations are a lot more complicated than just "how much does fuel cost for 400 miles vs how much does electric cost":

1. Can you put in a home charger and charge at home? If so:
2. Can you access an electric supplier who does cheap over night rates (eg Octopus Go tariff)
3. Can you install home solar? If so and the answer to 1. was Yes, then:
4. Also install a smart home charger to take advantage of any excess solar generation to charge the car.
5. Do you (or are you willing to) do your grocery shop at a Tesco with a carpark?
6. If so - download the podpoint app and charge for free while you do your shop (and dawdle rather than rushing to get it done)
7. Does your employer offer charging points, and if so do they provide it free or at a cheap rate?
8. How many miles are you doing (and are they done as lots of short trips, or as fewer longer trips? Just like a petrol car, range is reduced when doing lots of short trips)
9. What's the local infrastructure like for getting a charge away from home?

And then beyond the simple side of "how much does it cost to do 400 miles?" you've got all of the other cost-of-ownership expenses: road tax (a lot lower for an EV), maintenance (should be cheaper for an EV), tyres, insurance.

I've had a Zoe for a couple of years now. I can safely say it's a *lot* cheaper to run than our self-charging hybrid Prius is, and that in turn is cheaper than the Ecoboom Ford Focus was. However, I'm in a bit of a sweet spot when it comes to EV ownership:

1. Already had solar installed.
2. Have off-road parking.
3. Was able to switch to Octopus Go.
4. Get free charging at the office.
5. Already shop at Tesco.

The vast majority of my charging is done for free, and the charging that I pay for is at home at 7.5p / kwh.

Just a couple of corrections.
1. Tesco will no longer be free as of Nov 1st.
2. UNLIKE petrol cars, EVs love short trips and town driving, it's when they are at their most economical.

 

[Audax]

Just a couple of corrections.
1. Tesco will no longer be free as of Nov 1st.
2. UNLIKE petrol cars, EVs love short trips and town driving, it's when they are at their most economical.

1. Damn ... wasn't aware of that . 28p/kwh for the 7kw chargers. Still cheaper than "standard" home charging, but quite a bit more than cheap rates (such as Octopus Go overnight rate).

2. Personal experience says otherwise. My Zoe on short trips and town driving tops out around 4.4, maybe 4.5 miles/kwh in summer. Long trips (65 mile commute to the office via A22, M25 Uckfield to Uxbridge) I'm able to get 5+ miles/kwh with a best result of 5.4 (and it was showing 5.5 before I turned into my home street and had to climb a small steep hill). Having said that, I don't precondition for short trips and do leave the AC on, so I might be seeing impact from battery being hit relatively harder by short trips do to AC.

Edit: on point 2, actually, it's probably worth saying this: for long trips it depends a lot on the type of driving you are doing. If you're on A and B roads with plenty of corners, intersections, etc where you are able to regen energy back into the battery range will benefit. If your entire trip is on an M road maintaining 70 mph the whole way, range will drop significantly. The trip I did where I managed that 5.4 m/kwh was achieved in near-perfect conditions - clear late summer day, temp in low 20's, no wind, traffic on the M25 portion of the trip was perfect for allowing sustained driving between 50 and 70 mph with the slower patches giving the opportunity to regen. But it's the A22 leg of my journey that really does the job - I've had a trip previously where I left home in Uckfield and by the time I got to the M25 the estimated range remaining had gone UP (off the back of a lot of short trips near home where the mileage had dropped to 4.1/4.2 m/kwh so the initial estimate was low).

 

[LamieRobertson]

Popped along to Tescos petrol station for my weekly diesel purchase and couldn’t believe my eyes when i saw 164.9 per litre quoted….thought they had cocked up and that it was supposed to be the price for petrol, but nope ..thats about 14p down since last week(?)….have i missed some news

 

[A mex eyecan]

Popped along to Tescos petrol station for my weekly diesel purchase and couldn’t believe my eyes when i saw 164.9 per litre quoted….thought they had cocked up and that it was supposed to be the price for petrol, but nope ..thats about 14p down since last week(?)….have i missed some news

not you missing anything, just our hysterical media who only promote negativity. Why would they wish to convey any form of good news when prices fall. F me that won’t do , oh no sir, let’s just keep pumping out the depress8 g headlines, worry people shitless. Oh, then they can make the next report about the amount of people suffering with chronic mental health. As if there’s not enough crap in this world to worry about.

 

[zefarelly]

Petrol cars will never dissapear. Whilst an i pad on wheels has a lot of benefits and advantages (notably emissions in built up areas) the whole green eco thing doesn't wash. A tesla for example is a chinese chunk of plastic shit, it'll be in landfill in 10-15 years. What's the footprint of making one of those compared to a proper car made of metal that can be almost fully recycled, restored and repaired

There are so many variables to consider.

I have a few cars and a handful of scooters. I've done about 3000 miles this year and more than half of that has been on a bicycle.

 

[Stat Brother]

This'll help get a few off the road

 

[Justice]

I really miss my short wheel based Vauxhall Frontera what a beast that was bit juicy but petrol was cheap at the time. A Renault scenic smashed in the back of me, the scenic was a right off the Frontera broken tail light

 

[Icy Gull]

And if you were unlucky enough to buy an Ecoboost version, you'd be lucky to get 40k before it needed work. My Mrs had a Ka that she loved, so when it came time to replace we plumped for a brand new Focus Ecoboost. Unfortunately, was a 2016 model ... which was peak "Ecoboom". Sold it with 45k on the clock having already had remedial work done (at Ford's expense) on the cooling system twice (edit: including engine gasket changes that were typically a precursor to full engine failure / replacement territory).



Maths won't add up for everyone just yet. However, for those who are willing and able to commit early and do their research and change behaviour patterns to *make* it work etc it will always add up. The calculations are a lot more complicated than just "how much does fuel cost for 400 miles vs how much does electric cost":

1. Can you put in a home charger and charge at home? If so:
2. Can you access an electric supplier who does cheap over night rates (eg Octopus Go tariff)
3. Can you install home solar? If so and the answer to 1. was Yes, then:
4. Also install a smart home charger to take advantage of any excess solar generation to charge the car.
5. Do you (or are you willing to) do your grocery shop at a Tesco with a carpark?
6. If so - download the podpoint app and charge for free while you do your shop (and dawdle rather than rushing to get it done)
7. Does your employer offer charging points, and if so do they provide it free or at a cheap rate?
8. How many miles are you doing (and are they done as lots of short trips, or as fewer longer trips? Just like a petrol car, range is reduced when doing lots of short trips)
9. What's the local infrastructure like for getting a charge away from home?

And then beyond the simple side of "how much does it cost to do 400 miles?" you've got all of the other cost-of-ownership expenses: road tax (a lot lower for an EV), maintenance (should be cheaper for an EV), tyres, insurance.

I've had a Zoe for a couple of years now. I can safely say it's a *lot* cheaper to run than our self-charging hybrid Prius is, and that in turn is cheaper than the Ecoboom Ford Focus was. However, I'm in a bit of a sweet spot when it comes to EV ownership:

1. Already had solar installed.
2. Have off-road parking.
3. Was able to switch to Octopus Go.
4. Get free charging at the office.
5. Already shop at Tesco.

The vast majority of my charging is done for free, and the charging that I pay for is at home at 7.5p / kwh.

I hired an ecoboost on holiday a few years ago. It was the most asthmatic car I have ever driven. I’m sure it‘s a hit in Norfolk or the Lowlands but if there’s a hill in site..worry. Absolute rubbish car