the Elephant in the room

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

You do seem to have a remarkably blinkered and poors grasp of economics and economic history. Rather like Ed Balls and Labour who you seem to have a blind faith in.

Hilarious stuff. Like all those economists who saw the crash coming eh? They were queuing up to warn us that it was all about to go pete tong weren't they!

Here's how it went down.

The biggest lenders in the US had run out of ways to pay themselves ever bigger bonuses by loaning proper money to each other so they decided to parcel up every bad debt on their books and mix it up with good debt until the good money reached homeopathic strength compared to the bad. They then convinced a bunch of soppy, greedy twats in other countries to jump aboard until their balance books were screwed as well...then..one fine day there was no good debt left and the banks realised that they actually held a whole heap of iou notes written by a lunatic rather than equity and the system ground to a halt.

On duty at that time was one Mr G Brown of Downing St. He did what he had to do and called together the leaders of the free world and between them they decided to do whatever it took to make sure that there would be money in the cash point on Monday morning...that meant pouring good money into the system to cover the massive hole caused by the bad debts...that money was yours and my pension, health system, public services and education budget for the next ten years.

The greedy twats who caused it all breathed a sigh of relief and popped another bottle of bollinger and we voted in George Osborne to claim it was all the fault of the Labour party and nothing WHATSOEVER to do with the Tory supporting city boys who had been bleeding us dry prior to the crash and have been ever since.

If the Tories had ever once pointed out that the whole world was about to fall off a financial precipice before 2008 then they would have at least an iota of f***ing credibility...they didn't so they don't. End of.

 

[Baron Pepperpot]

The country has been living beyond its means for decades.

And now the chickens have come home to roost-period.

It's like a team in 1996 who were unlikely to get out of the Championship still paying Premier League wages and working on the principle that the crowds will be double what they actually are.

They then sack the manager and bring in someone called Blair who borrows millions to bring in big signings and increase the crowd. It worked for a while, but the team sank even lower and fell in to League 1. The club now faces liquidation in a few years.

The new manager Osborne doesn't know what to do. Some of the big players are gone but the club still can't afford it's overheads. He still borrows money the club can't afford as the fans won't pay more and demand higher league football, as that is what they are used to. But the reality is they will have to pay even more just to stay at this level. The debts must be serviced


Eventually the club collapses

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

The country has been living beyond its means for decades.

And now the chickens have come home to roost-period.

It's like a team in 1996 who were unlikely to get out of the Championship still paying Premier League wages and working on the principle that the crowds will be double what they actually are.

They then sack the manager and bring in someone called Blair who borrows millions to bring in big signings and increase the crowd. It worked for a while, but the team sank even lower and fell in to League 1. The club now faces liquidation in a few years.

The new manager Osborne doesn't know what to do. Some of the big players are gone but the club still can't afford it's overheads. He still borrows money the club can't afford as the fans won't pay more and demand higher league football, as that is what they are used to. But the reality is they will have to pay even more just to stay at this level. The debts must be serviced


Eventually the club collapses

Or Steve Parrish and Kid Jensen take over.

 

[beorhthelm]

Here's how it went down.

amazing how history is changed so quickly. its all the US bankers fault (nothing to do with policies set down by Clinton then), Brown saved us (despite not having a clue what had just happened, and it was Darlings plan) and there was nothing wrong with Labour policy, its all because of Tory voting bankers. "bleeding us dry" kinda overlooks who was making all the money that Brown had been spending for years. do people still not understand that a banks profits and bankers bonus gets taxed?

 

[drew]

The country has been living beyond its means for decades.

And now the chickens have come home to roost-period.

It's like a team in 1996 who were unlikely to get out of the Championship still paying Premier League wages and working on the principle that the crowds will be double what they actually are.

They then sack the manager and bring in someone called Blair who borrows millions to bring in big signings and increase the crowd. It worked for a while, but the team sank even lower and fell in to League 1. The club now faces liquidation in a few years.

The new manager Osborne doesn't know what to do. Some of the big players are gone but the club still can't afford it's overheads. He still borrows money the club can't afford as the fans won't pay more and demand higher league football, as that is what they are used to. But the reality is they will have to pay even more just to stay at this level. The debts must be serviced


Eventually the club collapses

amazing how history is changed so quickly. its all the US bankers fault (nothing to do with policies set down by Clinton then), Brown saved us (despite not having a clue what had just happened, and it was Darlings plan) and there was nothing wrong with Labour policy, its all because of Tory voting bankers. "bleeding us dry" kinda overlooks who was making all the money that Brown had been spending for years. do people still not understand that a banks profits and bankers bonus gets taxed?

Let's be honest then, I suspect the directors of those banks didn't know exactly what they were getting into, they just saw the bottom line. How would you expect politicians of any persuasion to understand. As for the profits from banks, had they not been there then Labours spending plans would have been different so it's not a great argument.

As for your reference to Clinton, he might have been president but I doubt he any chance when you consider all the major financial institutions were lined up against him and bank rolling their plan to the tune of millions!!!

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1999/11/bank-n01.html

 

[Lord Bracknell]

All this mounting debt ...

Who, exactly, is the government borrowing from?

 

[Adders1]

All this mounting debt ...

Who, exactly, is the government borrowing from?

China and Hedge funds

 

[beorhthelm]

China and Hedge funds

and our pension funds, so really us.

 

[User removed 4]

This gold thing is a red herring. What was the alternative? holding out ie our chancellor speculating the UK's future on the precious metals market which is far from ideal.

The clue is in the word RESERVES,, there was no need to do anything, gold has ALWAYS been a safe haven, he sold the reserves (and the clown actually let the f***ing mkt KNOW he was going to do this) for $3.5 billion , it would now be worth $19 billion, great move Gordon.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Bollocks is it. Osborne knew what he inherited, then set a series of self imposed goals and has f***ed everyone of them. If its Labour's fault why did he make all those claims to pay back debt, maintain the AAA etc if he knew he would not be able to do it do to the previous government? He's f***ing clueless. The central reason for his austerity was to maintain the AAA. Now that's gone time for a different approach.

Yes he did know what he inherited......millions in Debt...

 

[grawhite]

Another major labour fu*k-up was the aircraft carriers and the fitting of the wrong catapults, that has put another cost of 500-600 million on the debut bill, also the ordering of the wrong aircraft, then you got the refuel planes fitted with the wrong connectors for british fighters. Labour lovers can try and explain that and blame this government.

 

[drew]

Another major labour fu*k-up was the aircraft carriers and the fitting of the wrong catapults, that has put another cost of 500-600 million on the debut bill, also the ordering of the wrong aircraft, then you got the refuel planes fitted with the wrong connectors for british fighters. Labour lovers can try and explain that and blame this government.

Are you sure? Tories cancelled the original order then backtracked.

BBC News - Government in £100m U-turn over F35-B fighter planes

 

[soistes]

Hilarious stuff. Like all those economists who saw the crash coming eh? They were queuing up to warn us that it was all about to go pete tong weren't they!

Here's how it went down.

The biggest lenders in the US had run out of ways to pay themselves ever bigger bonuses by loaning proper money to each other so they decided to parcel up every bad debt on their books and mix it up with good debt until the good money reached homeopathic strength compared to the bad. They then convinced a bunch of soppy, greedy twats in other countries to jump aboard until their balance books were screwed as well...then..one fine day there was no good debt left and the banks realised that they actually held a whole heap of iou notes written by a lunatic rather than equity and the system ground to a halt.

On duty at that time was one Mr G Brown of Downing St. He did what he had to do and called together the leaders of the free world and between them they decided to do whatever it took to make sure that there would be money in the cash point on Monday morning...that meant pouring good money into the system to cover the massive hole caused by the bad debts...that money was yours and my pension, health system, public services and education budget for the next ten years.

The greedy twats who caused it all breathed a sigh of relief and popped another bottle of bollinger and we voted in George Osborne to claim it was all the fault of the Labour party and nothing WHATSOEVER to do with the Tory supporting city boys who had been bleeding us dry prior to the crash and have been ever since.

If the Tories had ever once pointed out that the whole world was about to fall off a financial precipice before 2008 then they would have at least an iota of f***ing credibility...they didn't so they don't. End of.

Good post. Sums it all up for me, really.

Particularly important to mention that right up until the massive bail out of the banks, Osborne and co had absolutely nothing to say about excessive debt, financial bubble or anything else. Indeed their economic policies up to that point were pretty similar to that of Labour. Brown and co were definitely at fault for allowing the financial sector to play their silly games for so long, but they absolutely weren't at fault for the emergency response to the financial crisis when it came: it was the baling out of the banks that left the big hole in the public finances, not the supposed Labour over-spending in the preceding years. And it's the banks and the rich who benefited from the bubble for so long who ought to be being squeezed now to mend the public finances, not the ordinary Joe.

 

[Camicus]

Good post. Sums it all up for me, really.

Particularly important to mention that right up until the massive bail out of the banks, Osborne and co had absolutely nothing to say about excessive debt, financial bubble or anything else. Indeed their economic policies up to that point were pretty similar to that of Labour. Brown and co were definitely at fault for allowing the financial sector to play their silly games for so long, but they absolutely weren't at fault for the emergency response to the financial crisis when it came: it was the baling out of the banks that left the big hole in the public finances, not the supposed Labour over-spending in the preceding years. And it's the banks and the rich who benefited from the bubble for so long who ought to be being squeezed now to mend the public finances, not the ordinary Joe.

Dont forget the Tories were screaming for Brown to pump MORE cash in to the system whilst signing off on every budget and asking for increased spending from 1997 onwards

 

[User removed 4]

Dont forget the Tories were screaming for Brown to pump MORE cash in to the system whilst signing off on every budget and asking for increased spending from 1997 onwards

Really, can you show me a source for that ?

 

[soistes]

Really, can you show me a source for that ?

Well there are loads of sources.

For a start, in the Tory election manifesto of 2005, Michael Howard promised that ‘over the period to 2011-12, we will increase government spending by 4 per cent a year, compared to Labour’s plans (on current trends) to increase spending by 5 per cent a year.’ OK slightly less, but hardly suggesting a proposal to get a grip on massive overspending etc as they claim now.

More damningly perhaps, you can see here a brilliant clip of George Osborne himself in 2007 smirkingly promising to match labour spending

Tories - YouTube

So yes, the Tories had definitely got the deficit/debt problems completely sussed before the crash in 2008 (not).

I could go on, but you get the drift. Bunch of hypocrites, trying to rewrite history.

 

[User removed 4]

Well there are loads of sources.

For a start, in the Tory election manifesto of 2005, Michael Howard promised that ‘over the period to 2011-12, we will increase government spending by 4 per cent a year, compared to Labour’s plans (on current trends) to increase spending by 5 per cent a year.’ OK slightly less, but hardly suggesting a proposal to get a grip on massive overspending etc as they claim now.

More damningly perhaps, you can see here a brilliant clip of George Osborne himself in 2007 smirkingly promising to match labour spending

Tories - YouTube

So yes, the Tories had definitely got the deficit/debt problems completely sussed before the crash in 2008 (not).

I could go on, but you get the drift. Bunch of hypocrites, trying to rewrite history.

You're basically destroying your own argument with that quote.

 

[soistes]

You're basically destroying your own argument with that quote.

How am I? The whole point is that the Tories blame everything on excessive Labour spending before the crash (rather than on Labour bailing out the banks in 2008 cos they had no choice). But they conveniently forget that Tory policies on spending were pretty much the same as labour's before the crash, and now they pretend that they would have done something different.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

and now they pretend that they would have done something different.

Quite. Just like they are now pretending they did not put much significance on the AAA when it was pretty much the single argument for their austerity program (aka strangling the economy) back in 2010. Which ever way you dress things up you cannot get away from the fact that things are much much worse now than they were when the Tories took over and they said they'd have improved things by now.

The knives will be out for these two clowns shortly. I cannot see the Tory grandees sitting silently as their hopes of a re-election go down the drain. And then, as usual with Tory in-fighting it will be game over.

 

[Gullys Cats]

The Tory's are raping the working class again, and again we do nothing!.