The definition of "loyalty"

[Bozza]

I think that "loyalty" is impossible to define. From countless "but what about my circumstances, which are ..." posts on here over many years, loyalty is quite often promoted as "someone who has my circumstances", thus giving rise to hundreds, if not thousands of different definitions.

For this reason, I agree with the suggestion to rename the points to something less emotive; just about anything would be less emotive than "loyalty".

But they HAVE been renamed, as we now have:

Season Ticket Holder Points, and
Member Points

(Although they have left the title 'Loyalty Points' in place as the name of a link to jump from the home page of the ticketing site to the Personal Details page which includes both STH and Member points)

 

[Goldstone1976]

But they HAVE been renamed, as we now have:

Season Ticket Holder Points, and
Member Points

(Although they have left the title 'Loyalty Points' in place as the name of a link to jump from the home page of the ticketing site to the Personal Details page which includes both STH and Member points)

Ha. You're right, of course.

I wonder what PB calls them?

 

[Official Old Man]

The kid in the park with an Albion shirt on.
Maybe his parents cant afford to go to matches but he is a fan and I expect he will be for life.
Spending money on the club is not everything despite these money grabbing PL days.
Think back 5 years, the kids then had Chelsea or Man Utd shirts on. They are loyal still I expect to that team although they may never see them live.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

As posted elsewhere, I fit in the exiles group. Went every home game as a teenager, think it was £1.50 in the North, then 3-4 matches a season for the last 20 years, away matches up to 90 minutes from Liverpool which is where I now live. I consider myself a very loyal fan and have raised my kids to support the Albion and attend matches. This season may be the first time in a long time I don't get to a game. If I don't attend a game this season it won't be because I'm not loyal.

 

[The red pepper kid]

Boring thread , pointless debate no way will the club change anything regarding this system. This season the away allocation will be a closed shop---almost . It is only right as well he who puts the effort in gets the rewards
ie: during the withdean/preistfield years and cup or other games important to me rather than post my application with Royal Mail I would drive down the club shop and put it through the letterbox-thus ensuring I was in the very first of the queue.
I drove 45 miles and hand delivered my job application through the companys letterbox and got the job....because I put the effort in.
I accept people have work,location and finiance issues.
however it has been clear even to my cats that this club was going up and that the momentum was there to achieve it I suspect the ones shouting the loudest are the ones with no effort made and no reward gained.
I missed the first season at the withdean because I had to work Saturdays and then couldn't get in for the second season when people were climbing trees and standing on the hill to peer over to catch a view I got a job with ecovert to become a steward and spent 8 years getting paid to watch the Albion, people living in the area who cant afford a season ticket can always apply to work for the club on match days jobs for stewards always pop up

 

[oldboyroy]

loyalty is supporting the club for 40 odd years thru thick and thin the goldstone years Gillingham withdean despite only now managing to get to few games due to work commitments location etc etc I class myself as a loyal fan getting to whatever games I can even just a few a season but follow the team via media subscription listening to games can't get to or watch and wherever I am will always be there every kick off either online on mobile on TV or live and will do as long as I live whatever league we're in

 

[Bozza]

As posted elsewhere, I fit in the exiles group. Went every home game as a teenager, think it was £1.50 in the North, then 3-4 matches a season for the last 20 years, away matches up to 90 minutes from Liverpool which is where I now live. I consider myself a very loyal fan and have raised my kids to support the Albion and attend matches. This season may be the first time in a long time I don't get to a game. If I don't attend a game this season it won't be because I'm not loyal.

You may be incredibly loyal, but your level of commitment is significantly below others. 3 or 4 games a season, as long as they are relatively close to where you live, is a pretty light level of commitment compared to many.

I was a season ticket holder (both at Withdean and the Amex) living in Somerset. I'm fortunate to be local now, but there are many others who travel to the Amex every other week who live much further away than I did. There are those who get to every single Albion game, home and away, season after season. Incredible commitment.

So maybe don't think of it as 'loyalty' but as 'commitment'. Some may be lucky in that they have personal circumstances that allow them to be more committed, and I fully sympathise with those who have reasons, such as family, work or money, that severely curtails their ability to commit to the same level. But in a similar vein, there are those who have made life choices that limits their commitment. I chose to live in Somerset, for example. Having to do 350 mile round trips for a home game was my fault - no one else's.

Many exiles will say something like "I can't move back because property is so much more expensive" or "the kids are in school and I can't move them now" - all perfectly understandable, of course. But the fact is many exiles almost certainly could move back if they truly wanted to. They may live in a less desirable area than they'd like. Perhaps they'd have a smaller house. The kids would need to go through the difficultly of changing schools. But, it IS possible for most if they truly want to.

Please don't take this as being unsympathetic - it's not at all - but those who have repeatedly demonstrated commitment to see the Albion play should be those who get first choice for subsequent games, be that Manchester United or Macclesfield.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Strange poll. How do you achieve actual attendance, without the financial support of buying a ticket?

A non-STH who does PotG = attends away games and supports team vocally but provides zero financial support to BHA - current loyalty scheme provides zero credit for this.

I suspect there are a fair-few Sussex exiles that fall into this bracket of attending more away games than home games

 

[clippedgull]

Boring thread , pointless debate no way will the club change anything regarding this system. This season the away allocation will be a closed shop---almost . It is only right as well he who puts the effort in gets the rewards
ie: during the withdean/preistfield years and cup or other games important to me rather than post my application with Royal Mail I would drive down the club shop and put it through the letterbox-thus ensuring I was in the very first of the queue.
I drove 45 miles and hand delivered my job application through the companys letterbox and got the job....because I put the effort in.
I accept people have work,location and finiance issues.
however it has been clear even to my cats that this club was going up and that the momentum was there to achieve it I suspect the ones shouting the loudest are the ones with no effort made and no reward gained.
I missed the first season at the withdean because I had to work Saturdays and then couldn't get in for the second season when people were climbing trees and standing on the hill to peer over to catch a view I got a job with ecovert to become a steward and spent 8 years getting paid to watch the Albion, people living in the area who cant afford a season ticket can always apply to work for the club on match days jobs for stewards always pop up

and what would that achieve it you got put on parking duty!

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Boring thread , pointless debate

Sorry you think this, but I wanted to get the views of how loyalty should be measured [for the purposes of our LP scheme] given the Bmuff debacle where 700 folk bought their loyalty rather than voiced it.

 

[Bozza]

A non-STH who does PotG = attends away games and supports team vocally but provides zero financial support to BHA - current loyalty scheme provides zero credit for this.

I suspect there are a fair-few Sussex exiles that fall into this bracket of attending more away games than home games

Going PotG always came with the risk of lacking recognition from the club, and I say that as someone who often made late decisions to go to a game and bought from the host club.

That's not been a secret from anyone.

 

[Bozza]

Sorry you think this, but I wanted to get the views of how loyalty should be measured [for the purposes of our LP scheme] given the Bmuff debacle where 700 folk bought their loyalty rather than voiced it.

Loyalty can't be measured. When it comes down to it, almost all of us have incredible loyalty to the Albion. It's been part of us since birth, or shortly after, and will be with us until we die.

Commitment is easier to measure, although as I said above many people will have reasons - some of their own choosing and some not - for not being able to commit as much as others.

 

[ofco8]

The whole points system is so frustrating in many ways.

Myself and a member of the family have supported the club from Goldstone, every home match at Gillingham, STH for whole of Withdean and also at Amex. Due to this we were offered good seats at the Amex from the beginning. (So the club do or did have all the fans history).

Since then we have also been to many away matches.

Last season my family member managed one more away match than me, Newcastle, which I could not go to due to another commitment.
Result, he got a ticket for Arsenal by 2 points and I failed by 8 points.

He will now get tickets for every away match and I will be trailing further and further behind.

Perhaps next big away match the second tier of Loyal fans should be offered tickets before the elite top 3000.

It seems to me the club consider the elite 3000 as the Loyal fans but the other 20000 season ticket holders as the lower class.

Oh well, roll on tomorrow and lets hope all us Loyal fans get the result we want.

 

[sully]

Please don't take this as being unsympathetic - it's not at all - but those who have repeatedly demonstrated commitment to see the Albion play should be those who get first choice for subsequent games, be that Manchester United or Macclesfield.

Whilst I totally agree with everything you've written, the whole debate has come up because some of those who have been "committed" have decided to protect that position at whatever cost to those who would also like to watch the team play occasionally. This selfish behaviour reflects very poorly on those individuals and nobody else. We should all be very disappointed at the behaviour and rejoice when those selfish individuals have their points reduced by the club. I don't care how "committed" they've been in the past, selfish behaviour is not a nice trait and should not be allowed to continue.
These people will probably find other ways to cheat their fellow fans whatever tweaks the club impose because that's just how they are, sadly.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A non-STH who does PotG = attends away games and supports team vocally but provides zero financial support to BHA - current loyalty scheme provides zero credit for this.

I suspect there are a fair-few Sussex exiles that fall into this bracket of attending more away games than home games

Apart from Huddersfield, there were very few PotG games last season. Away league games don't contribute anything to Brighton & Hove Albion financially.

 

[el punal]

I keep saying it, scrap the loyalty scheme, its only a money making exercise anyway, and give STHs first dibs on tickets then open the rest to ALL fans.

What? Please explain how the loyalty points scheme is a money making exercise? We have 23,000 STHs how do you propose which ones get first dibs when the average away ticket allocation is 3,000? Not too many left then that will be open to the rest of ALL fans.

Whether you agree or disagree with the club's stance on ticket distribution, i.e. loyalty points scheme, no one has yet come up with a suitable or viable alternative. At least the club are rewarding those fans that have travelled far and wide to support the Albion prior to us reaching the Premier League, and for me that is at least is an honourable intention. There will never be a perfect solution for the simple reason that we have too many fans after too few tickets.

My final point is that the Albion have never been in this situation before, at least not on this scale, of having just about every fixture that they play being a sell out both at home or for an away allocation. That definitely did not happen even in our first season (1979/80) in the old first division. The price of success I suppose, but isn't that what the club and us fans have been striving for for years?

 

[oldboyroy]

You may be incredibly loyal, but your level of commitment is significantly below others. 3 or 4 games a season, as long as they are relatively close to where you live, is a pretty light level of commitment compared to many.

I was a season ticket holder (both at Withdean and the Amex) living in Somerset. I'm fortunate to be local now, but there are many others who travel to the Amex every other week who live much further away than I did. There are those who get to every single Albion game, home and away, season after season. Incredible commitment.

So maybe don't think of it as 'loyalty' but as 'commitment'. Some may be lucky in that they have personal circumstances that allow them to be more committed, and I fully sympathise with those who have reasons, such as family, work or money, that severely curtails their ability to commit to the same level. But in a similar vein, there are those who have made life choices that limits their commitment. I chose to live in Somerset, for example. Having to do 350 mile round trips for a home game was my fault - no one else's.

Many exiles will say something like "I can't move back because property is so much more expensive" or "the kids are in school and I can't move them now" - all perfectly understandable, of course. But the fact is many exiles almost certainly could move back if they truly wanted to. They may live in a less desirable area than they'd like. Perhaps they'd have a smaller house. The kids would need to go through the difficultly of changing schools. But, it IS possible for most if they truly want to.

Please don't take this as being unsympathetic - it's not at all - but those who have repeatedly demonstrated commitment to see the Albion play should be those who get first choice for subsequent games, be that Manchester United or Macclesfield.

if you are living nearby and have the funds to watch every game or most doesn't make you more loyal than someone on minimum wage who for arguments sake would need to save a few weeks to get to a game every now and then...that person would be just as committed and loyal as the stockbroker who has a box at the Amex and can fly to away games in their private jet

 

[Bozza]

if you are living nearby and have the funds to watch every game or most doesn't make you more loyal than someone on minimum wage who for arguments sake would need to save a few weeks to get to a game every now and then...that person would be just as committed and loyal as the stockbroker who has a box at the Amex and can fly to away games in their private jet

As I said, I fully accept that people will have factors, some not of their own choosing, that limits their ability to commit.

That stuff can neither be measured nor incorporated into any club scheme though.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

Yes being loyal and committed are two separate things. In terms of ticket allocation the main bulk of tickets should go to those who have gone to the most games and who are therefore more committed than people who for whatever reason go to less games. It is probably too much to expect but perhaps the club could have a lottery system for 10% of the away allocation, just to give a chance to exiles or for families that simply cannot afford it, the chance to see the Albion away. Not everyone can afford the time and money required to be an über fan but like I say it doesn't mean they aren't loyal.

 

[Merdalfthewizard]

Loyalty to me is living 200 miles from Brighton and going as often as finances and ticket availability allows, watching or listening to every match I can't attend and bringing up my three children as staunch Albion supporters. I'll get a ticket where I can, I don't begrudge those in front of me in the pecking order, but I'm just as loyal to our club as anyone.

That's my person definition, and I'm sure there are thousands with similar stories.

I think I should get extra points as I live 256 miles from the Amex and am a STH