Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The loss of power certainly affected the factories making tanks, and having to repair the dams took resources away from other areas. War is a dirty nasty business.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22510300
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[News] The 'Dambusters' raid, 75 years ago today (and tomorrow).
- Thread starter Stat Brother
- Start date
The loss of power certainly affected the factories making tanks, and having to repair the dams took resources away from other areas. War is a dirty nasty business.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22510300
- Apr 5, 2014
- 26,351
Not sure about the relevance of this point.
It was a different culture with different rules of engagement. As such a different consideration is needed.
Certainly, in these times, WWII was one huge war crime on all sides. But the context of history means that much smaller elements of the conflict would be considered as such- that because they were at the time.
However modern views, however correct, should not be allowed to blight the over-riding bravery and self sacrifice of those involved. And a random entry like yours risks doing that- even if unattended.
Terrible and very sad - but the way it would have been perceived would have been the tragic loss
of that number for the very large number saved by doing the bombing.
Shropshire Seagull
Well-known member
And the name of the dog would fail all PC now ....
Worthing exile
New member
- May 12, 2009
- 1,219
Isn't it overdubbed as Digger in the film now?
Shropshire Seagull
Well-known member
The stat I heard was
8 of the 19 aircraft failed to return
53 air crew lost in action [on the raid] 40%
3 captured
42 more air crew subsequently lost their lives from injuries sustained on the raid
So, of the 133 who took off that night, 98 were not available for the next mission - 74% - that's massive !!!
jakarta
Well-known member
No, the 42 aircrew died on subsequent missions with 617, especially the disastrous Dortmund-Elms Canal Raids which ripped the heart out of the original Squadron (including Gibsons crew- he had been grounded as discussed previously).
But that was the way it was in Bomber Command, my understanding is that during World War II their casualty rates were only exceeded by U-Boat crews.
I have a tenuous connection with this in as much as Mrs Jakarta's Aunt got engaged to a Bomber Pilot in 1943 who was killed, she then got engaged to a Bomber Navigator in 1944 who was also killed.
Her father then told her she musn't go out with any more Bomber Crew so she met and married a Spitfire Pilot instead (he didn't fly in action until early 1945 in Italy so not much Luftwaffe about by then).
He survived, she married him and had three children with after the war, however he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and died at the age of 30. She was understandably rather bitter about the hand life had dealt her.
https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2018/05/watch-johnny-johnson-fly-lancaster-one-final-time/
As part of the commemorations, the BBMF took Johnny Johnson up in their Lanc. [emoji106]
As part of the commemorations, the BBMF took Johnny Johnson up in their Lanc. [emoji106]
- Thread starter
- #49
Having watched it this morning I can categorically say this isn't the case.
Although the first time he's named it isn't clear and could be interpreted that way.
Cadiz Seagull
Grey bearded old man
Definitely not overdubbed, still N***er. Plus it was the codeword for when a dam was actually breached. "Gonner" meant the bomb had been dropped, "N***er" meant it had done it's work.
Film Four did put out a warning just before the film started that the film contained language of the time that some people might find racially offensive.
I've watched it many times before but I really enjoyed it yesterday. One of the best war fils of the time, especially the music.
- Thread starter
- #51
I don't know why but this morning, while watching, I suddenly thought 'what would this film be like if Americans made it?'
Even the America of that time let alone how the American remake would look now.
With that in mind there were a few 'stiff upper lip' rye smiles to be had.
And sadly, some OTT PC numpty with no understanding of history or context felt constrained to add, "Warning: contains racist language."
I found [B[that[/B] very offensive. Censoring that word in that context would be an inexcusable re-writing of history. Not on!
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
It is racist language now, therefore the warning, in case a younger person was watching it, and didn't understand that in the 40s and 50s the word simply described a colour. In haberdashery stores you could ask for n****** brown wool or cotton.
Black people decided they didn't like it, found it offensive and so it became racist. No censoring, just a warning.
- Apr 5, 2014
- 26,351
A well known charity, that I once worked on a project for, ran a feature on historical pet memories. They featured a picture of a pet burial plot from around the 50s. Unfortunately, they didn't check the headstones for the some of the pet names that might appear in the shot....
My Dad did confirm to me that it was not uncommon for a black cat or dog to be know by the 'N' word.
I would have an issue with such a thing happening now, but I'm not offended at what I see then. It was the culture of the time.
jakarta
Well-known member
I presume you have never watched Pulp Fiction then?
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
No, never.
Let 'em be offended then - that's their problem! They should pay a bit more attention to history (without stupidly trying to interpret and judge history by today's mores).
........and the dog was called '******', by the way, not 'n*****' and nothing now can change that fact!
AmexRuislip
Retired Spy 🕵️♂️
- Thread starter
- #60
Say watched again, I dare you
It turns out you can watch PF in an hours time:-
[tweet]999001959246917632[/tweet]