[Finance] The cryptocurrency (Bitcoin etc) thread

[warmleyseagull]

So crypto companies with large contracts with business and organisations that pay them have no intrinsic value?

What about IoTex who recently were awarded a contract with the US Navy to develop a system that supercharges their ability to record and store medical records?

No value?

What about Arweave who provide long term data storage solutions in a sector that was worth 65 billion in 2020 and is growing every year due to the need for improved data storage solutions?

No value?

Exactly, no value. This is about holding crypto, not using it. Lotex is simply a facilitator that gladly accepts your money without a whole load of detail what it does with it: according to their own website: "[Lotex] is a new age thought. Especially this is a private blockchain that works within the blockchain. It is just empowering the Internet of Things (IoT)." Whoopee Doo. Ask Terry Smith if this is for him...

Airweave website; "Arweave is a new type of storage that backs data with sustainable and perpetual endowments, allowing users and developers to truly store data forever – for the very first time.". Really? Do I not need a piece of this.

If these are intrinsic value to you, go for it.

It is always the defence of crypto freaks that somehow this is THE future; that they are buying into something that is more than Dutch tulips. True that blockchain technology (which is what these companies are, I think, promoting) has had some good press, albeit my understanding is the banks who were interested have backed off somewhat. I don't see the relation between that and the price of bitcoin.

Ask yourself this: if there is intrinsic value to bitcoin, why does the price fluctuate so much? At the very least, you must accept that there is a frothy overload of interest that is quick to dissipate; if there is intrinsic value, what is it pricewise? And, yes, there are other investments with little or no intrinsic value - I have held gold physically and in ETF for may years as hedge against inflation and dollar collapse - but it has form in the sense of an historical pricing and as a recognised store of value since Roman times.

 

[Half Time Pies]

Since the suspension of the gold standard in the 1930s, however that didn't really fit my bringing Newton into it.

The stamp only has value because of collectors. If people want to collect NFTs or own them, it is no different, only less established, less reliable, less predictable, same thing though nonetheless. If people stop collecting stamps, they'll lose all their value, just the same if someone stops wanting an NFT, it will lose it's value.

Strictly speaking dollars could still be exchanged for gold until 1971 (by foreign governments that held a trade surplus with the US)!

Surely the value to a collector in owning a stamp has as much to do with the physical enjoyment of that stamp and the additional benefits that ownership brings such as the exclusivity of being able to touch it and have have access to it when nobody else does. Would a stamp collector be interested in owning a stamp if it was never physically in their possession? I doubt it.

You could probably stick a stamp collector in a museum of stamps and he would get as much enjoyment out of looking at them as he does his own collection, theres an emotional connection. With an NFT of a picture of a monkey you only have the knowledge that you own it and that it might go up in value.. as hard as a I try I just can't get my head around it!

 

[Bold Seagull]

Strictly speaking dollars could still be exchanged for gold until 1971 (by foreign governments that held a trade surplus with the US)!

Surely the value to a collector in owning a stamp has as much to do with the physical enjoyment of that stamp and the additional benefits that ownership brings such as the exclusivity of being able to touch it and have have access to it when nobody else does. Would a stamp collector be interested in owning a stamp if it was never physically in their possession? I doubt it.

You could probably stick a stamp collector in a museum of stamps and he would get as much enjoyment out of looking at them as he does his own collection, theres an emotional connection. With an NFT of a picture of a monkey you only have the knowledge that you own it and that it might go up in value.. as hard as a I try I just can't get my head around it!

You, or I for that matter can't get our head around it because it is subjective. As I said in a previous post, I got continually frustrated with my kids needing the new game pack in Fortnite just because it had a new outfit and glider - their character in the game had no extra abilities through this. But to them, this was as emotionally important how they looked playing online with all their friends as perhaps being seen out in a new pair of trainers. We might see that as daft as the new pair of trainers are real, but to them interacting in the game is just as real. I do start to get it. Digital value is going to be a huge thing.

We've now got a Oculus Quest VR and I can already see how immersive it is. You're going to be able to attend Virtual FIFA football matches, sports events, concerts. Ready Player One isn't a million miles away. When interacting people will want cool avatar's, cool stuff, it will have value. We are at the cusp of the virtual becoming a very big thing. Be afraid, be very afraid!!

 

[GloryDays]

Ups and Downs, plenty of them, but Crypto is here to stay. Eventually there maybe only 20 of them.

But in my opinion its the best opportunity you will get in this lifetime to get in early on something huge.

Its way way bigger than you can imagine i think.

As i have said before it will swallow all other asset classes. Everything will be tokenised eventually.

I agree. It also might be something that's currently not available or in existence.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I agree. It also might be something that's currently not available or in existence.

Could be like VHS over Betamax. At the time, it seemed like VHS won the war, only it was just a battle and a decade later they were both dead. VHS even won despite being the inferior format at the time.

Talking of value look at film hire and service. Who would have imagined in 1995 or around that era that Blockbuster or owning the latest favourite movie to watch over and over again would be supplanted by virtual streaming. Ownership now pretty much a defunct concept altogether.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

You, or I for that matter can't get our head around it because it is subjective. As I said in a previous post, I got continually frustrated with my kids needing the new game pack in Fortnite just because it had a new outfit and glider - their character in the game had no extra abilities through this. But to them, this was as emotionally important how they looked playing online with all their friends as perhaps being seen out in a new pair of trainers. We might see that as daft as the new pair of trainers are real, but to them interacting in the game is just as real. I do start to get it. Digital value is going to be a huge thing.

Do the packs etc hold their value over time? ie will you/they be able to sell them for the same or more in a few years when they and their pals are playing a different game/have stopped gaming?

 

[schmunk]

Do the packs etc hold their value over time? ie will you/they be able to sell them for the same or more in a few years when they and their pals are playing a different game/have stopped gaming?

They're not resellable.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Exactly, no value. This is about holding crypto, not using it. Lotex is simply a facilitator that gladly accepts your money without a whole load of detail what it does with it: according to their own website: "[Lotex] is a new age thought. Especially this is a private blockchain that works within the blockchain. It is just empowering the Internet of Things (IoT)." Whoopee Doo. Ask Terry Smith if this is for him...

Airweave website; "Arweave is a new type of storage that backs data with sustainable and perpetual endowments, allowing users and developers to truly store data forever – for the very first time.". Really? Do I not need a piece of this.

If these are intrinsic value to you, go for it.

It is always the defence of crypto freaks that somehow this is THE future; that they are buying into something that is more than Dutch tulips. True that blockchain technology (which is what these companies are, I think, promoting) has had some good press, albeit my understanding is the banks who were interested have backed off somewhat. I don't see the relation between that and the price of bitcoin.

Ask yourself this: if there is intrinsic value to bitcoin, why does the price fluctuate so much? At the very least, you must accept that there is a frothy overload of interest that is quick to dissipate; if there is intrinsic value, what is it pricewise? And, yes, there are other investments with little or no intrinsic value - I have held gold physically and in ETF for may years as hedge against inflation and dollar collapse - but it has form in the sense of an historical pricing and as a recognised store of value since Roman times.

You must think the same of the SX then.

No point holding a lot of that either, useless to you.

Or are you one of those people who is stuck on the word "coin" and are taking that way to literally?

Maybe they need to label them crypto shares to appease the boomers.

You know you're talking to a boomer when they refer to tulips in relation to crypto totally ignoring the organisations and institutions adopting it and putting their own money behind it.

The fact BTC has been around since 2009 where as the Tulip bubble lasted 3 years. makes any such comparisons pointless.

This notion that crypto has to be absolutely perfect and a mirror image of how the stock market operates immediately when it's stil in its infancy stage is just old institution fud.

Asking do you need Arweave is like saying do you need Rio Tinto?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Do the packs etc hold their value over time? ie will you/they be able to sell them for the same or more in a few years when they and their pals are playing a different game/have stopped gaming?

So you can sell certain in-game items on Gameflip.

Some Fortnite skins were exclusively released with bundled products so are rare and are said to go for about $700 each.

 

[GloryDays]

Could be like VHS over Betamax. At the time, it seemed like VHS won the war, only it was just a battle and a decade later they were both dead. VHS even won despite being the inferior format at the time.

Talking of value look at film hire and service. Who would have imagined in 1995 or around that era that Blockbuster or owning the latest favourite movie to watch over and over again would be supplanted by virtual streaming. Ownership now pretty much a defunct concept altogether.

Minimalism is in but not sure how long for. Like with the first modernity and mass production it’ll move with generations. Will be interesting to see how this subscription / rental lifestyle goes down as we go on. Almost just becomes a form of tax rather than having the right to use something. At some point something will come along to upset the status quo.

 

[Marshy]

I could not be more confident in this space.

When true utility kicks in its going to be insane.

Ive picked my winners and i am very confident.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Crystal Palace suing their shirt sponsors who are a crypto company that has gone bust and are reneging on their payments.

https://insidersport.com/2022/01/26/fsa-calls-for-crypto-regulations-following-iqoniq-liquidation/

 

[warmleyseagull]

You must think the same of the SX then.

No point holding a lot of that either, useless to you.

Or are you one of those people who is stuck on the word "coin" and are taking that way to literally?

Maybe they need to label them crypto shares to appease the boomers.

You know you're talking to a boomer when they refer to tulips in relation to crypto totally ignoring the organisations and institutions adopting it and putting their own money behind it.

The fact BTC has been around since 2009 where as the Tulip bubble lasted 3 years. makes any such comparisons pointless.

This notion that crypto has to be absolutely perfect and a mirror image of how the stock market operates immediately when it's stil in its infancy stage is just old institution fud.

Asking do you need Arweave is like saying do you need Rio Tinto?

Yup, boomer who has got hurt financially in the past backing stupid things. Guess you would call Terry Smith a boomer, so pointless following his funds. We just know nothing.

I invest heavily in funds, trusts, ETFs, and shares. Some of these are high risk but less than used to due to losses backing crap.

Don’t get me wrong; anyone can invest where they like and bitcoin and associated ‘investments’; what I can’t get my head round is all the jargonese and other bollocks trying to claim this is something it isn’t. If you were to say “this is all a bit of a punt and I might lose or gain a lot” I would have a deal more respect.

And I don’t need Rio Tinto. Read Terry Smith: never invest in miners.

 

[Seagull58]

Yup, boomer who has got hurt financially in the past backing stupid things. Guess you would call Terry Smith a boomer, so pointless following his funds. We just know nothing.

I invest heavily in funds, trusts, ETFs, and shares. Some of these are high risk but less than used to due to losses backing crap.

Don’t get me wrong; anyone can invest where they like and bitcoin and associated ‘investments’; what I can’t get my head round is all the jargonese and other bollocks trying to claim this is something it isn’t. If you were to say “this is all a bit of a punt and I might lose or gain a lot” I would have a deal more respect.

And I don’t need Rio Tinto. Read Terry Smith: never invest in miners.

I'm with you on this. I lived through the dot com boom and bust in the late 90's,early noughties. If it has no intrinsic value it has no value. I've dabbled in crypto and got out at break even. I still think it's magic beans. Time will tell.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

https://twitter.com/RobertZamora25/status/1485891956496547840?s=20

JT and sadly Bobby Zamora joining the NFT grift. Apparently the PL and Chelsea are considering taking legal action over the use of protected assets (Chelsea logo and likeness of the trophy to the PL trophy in his shitty drawings).

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

https://twitter.com/RobertZamora25/status/1485891956496547840?s=20

JT and sadly Bobby Zamora joining the NFT grift. Apparently the PL and Chelsea are considering taking legal action over the use of protected assets (Chelsea logo and likeness of the trophy to the PL trophy in his shitty drawings).

You mean digital art.

An NFT is many different things. Electronic tickets are examples of NFTs. You think if you go to an event with a digital ticket to get in its a grift?

Digital art ownership will ultimately be no different to a photographer owning the rights to a photograph they took and hold ownership over.

A song can be an NFT, a video of a major iconic moment can be an NFT.


Old farts collect stamps, younger generations collect digital art.

Does anyone really care if some old fart buys a little bit of paper for millions?

 

[Half Time Pies]

You mean digital art.

An NFT is many different things. Electronic tickets are examples of NFTs. You think if you go to an event with a digital ticket to get in its a grift?

Digital art ownership will ultimately be no different to a photographer owning the rights to a photograph they took and hold ownership over.

A song can be an NFT, a video of a major iconic moment can be an NFT.


Old farts collect stamps, younger generations collect digital art.

Does anyone really care if some old fart buys a little bit of paper for millions?

Well thats a very interesting but completely false narrative....

Its got nothing to do with age, its a type of person that seems to be driving this stuff, and from spending time in Gibraltar where theres an established blockchain community, all over there so as they can avoid paying tax, they seem to be predominantly white, privileged, libertarian, geeks who think that this new technology will usher in a new global order where they can do whatever they like and make a shit load of money in the process.

Back in the real world younger generations are far more likely to be collecting old vinyl records than digital art! Even stamp collecting is apparently, in the middle of a resurgence. https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...als-have-fallen-in-love-with-stamp-collecting

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

You mean digital art.

An NFT is many different things. Electronic tickets are examples of NFTs. You think if you go to an event with a digital ticket to get in its a grift?

Digital art ownership will ultimately be no different to a photographer owning the rights to a photograph they took and hold ownership over.

A song can be an NFT, a video of a major iconic moment can be an NFT.


Old farts collect stamps, younger generations collect digital art.

Does anyone really care if some old fart buys a little bit of paper for millions?

If JT's involved, pretty safe to assume its a grift

 

[beorhthelm]

If JT's involved, pretty safe to assume its a grift

fair comment.
the pfp thing is a farce and given NFT a poor image (literally, most arent even good art). need to look past that, to the opportunity in the tech. geniune attributable, transferable control of digital assets, something previous considered unattainable.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Yup, boomer who has got hurt financially in the past backing stupid things. Guess you would call Terry Smith a boomer, so pointless following his funds. We just know nothing.

I invest heavily in funds, trusts, ETFs, and shares. Some of these are high risk but less than used to due to losses backing crap.

Don’t get me wrong; anyone can invest where they like and bitcoin and associated ‘investments’; what I can’t get my head round is all the jargonese and other bollocks trying to claim this is something it isn’t. If you were to say “this is all a bit of a punt and I might lose or gain a lot” I would have a deal more respect.

And I don’t need Rio Tinto. Read Terry Smith: never invest in miners.

Totally agree with you. Terry Smith is my favourite fund manager.

Although I've just tripled my money on Glencore. 5 year trade but hey ho....