[Finance] The cryptocurrency (Bitcoin etc) thread

[Truthsayer]

Bitcoin up to nearly $13k (not far off £10k) each!

 

[Truthsayer]

Bitcoin is at $15K now! Three all time highs in 15 hours 13k,14k,15k

 

[Truthsayer]

$16.2k already.... when is it stopping?

 

[TheJasperCo]

This appears to be going the same way as house prices (especially London/SE). Question is, will the bitcoin market crash or will it cool?

 

[The Andy Naylor Fan Club]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42275523

"Highly professional" hackers made off with around 4,700 Bitcoin from a leading mining service, a Bitcoin exchange has said.

The value of Bitcoin is currently extremely volatile, but at the time of writing, the amount stolen was worth approximately $80m.

The hacked service was NiceHash, a Slovenia-based mining exchange.

It said it was working hard to recover the Bitcoin for its users, adding: "Someone really wanted to bring us down."

 

[Biscuit]

[MENTION=25384]The Andy Naylor Fan Club[/MENTION] - if you have a decent amount of cash invested in cc then anyone with half a brain would be keeping it in an offline ledger. Keeping all your BTC or whatever in an online exchange is asking for trouble IMO,

I know I keep bringing it back to Litecoin, but that jumped from £76 this morning to £92 now.. not bad at all!

 

[The Andy Naylor Fan Club]

[MENTION=25384]The Andy Naylor Fan Club[/MENTION] - if you have a decent amount of cash invested in cc then anyone with half a brain would be keeping it in an offline ledger. Keeping all your BTC or whatever in an online exchange is asking for trouble IMO,

I know I keep bringing it back to Litecoin, but that jumped from £76 this morning to £92 now.. not bad at all!

Hi [MENTION=307]Biscuit[/MENTION], I don't have any Bitcoin savings as it's something I don't understand. I read this thread from time to time and then read the article on the BBC website. Good luck to those that are trying to make money but I don't think Bitcoins are for me.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Now that Bitcoin Futures are a thing, I'm thinking that the real value is going to be investing in Bitcoin Futures rather than the Bitcoin itself. Basically you'd be taking punt on the price of Bitcoin at a specified point in the future. Whether you believe Bitcoin value is going to continue to skyrocket in the short/medium term or is going to fade and die like a West Ham bubble, seems to me that you could bet on both eventualities for a fraction of the cost of buying Bitcoin itself and still make a decent profit. Sort of the financial equivalent of matched betting in those races where you can back every horse in a race for a guarantee profit. Reckon that's where the smart money will be going. Almost certainly smarter than taking out a loan to buy Bitcoin at current prices.

Thoughts?

 

[mylesfdo]

Now that Bitcoin Futures are a thing, I'm thinking that the real value is going to be investing in Bitcoin Futures rather than the Bitcoin itself. Basically you'd be taking punt on the price of Bitcoin at a specified point in the future. Whether you believe Bitcoin value is going to continue to skyrocket in the short/medium term or is going to fade and die like a West Ham bubble, seems to me that you could bet on both eventualities for a fraction of the cost of buying Bitcoin itself and still make a decent profit. Sort of the financial equivalent of matched betting in those races where you can back every horse in a race for a guarantee profit. Reckon that's where the smart money will be going. Almost certainly smarter than taking out a loan to buy Bitcoin at current prices.

Thoughts?

Interested in this as currently dabbling with day trading crypto currencies mainly due tot the huge volatlilty.

Not sure how would work though with the futures because correct me if Im wrong but this is how I see it working:

You buy a call or put future giving you option to buy or sell at a specific rate on a specific date. If the underlying asset doesnt reach the strike rate on the expiry date you dont take out your option to buy obviously but if it does or is higher you obviously have the right to buy at a lower rate than what you can sell it at but would obviously need he funds to then buy the asset!

Im guessing the money can be made by trading the futures as obv the future prie will rise if the asset value is above strike near to expiry date?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Interested in this as currently dabbling with day trading crypto currencies mainly due tot the huge volatlilty.

Not sure how would work though with the futures because correct me if Im wrong but this is how I see it working:

You buy a call or put future giving you option to buy or sell at a specific rate on a specific date. If the underlying asset doesnt reach the strike rate on the expiry date you dont take out your option to buy obviously but if it does or is higher you obviously have the right to buy at a lower rate than what you can sell it at but would obviously need he funds to then buy the asset!

Im guessing the money can be made by trading the futures as obv the future prie will rise if the asset value is above strike near to expiry date?

Well I worked at LIFFE (London's Futures and Options Exchange) as an IT contractor for 18 months a while back. Didn't pick up much of the nitty gritty during my time there, have to admit, just enough to get by. But Futures are an OBLIGATION to 'Sell' or 'Buy' (or 'Put' or 'Call' in their terminology) the underlying asset at a specified point in the future, whereas Options , as the name suggests, give you the right, but NOT the obligation to Sell or Buy the underlying asset at a specified point in the future. Currently, as I understand it, there are no Bitcoin Options offered by any Exchange, only Bitcoin Futures.

 

[piersa]

Thanks. I will buy some more. There's a number of cafes and restaurant near me where I can use Bitcoins.

Please tell me you did?

 

[GingerBeerMan]

Please tell me you did?

Did what, use his bitcoin in a cafe? Of course he didn't, who would spend bitcoin on goods and services? And that right there is why it can't be a real currency that will hold its value.

 

[Biscuit]

I realise this is quite the bounce but just a heads up to those who may have had Bitcoin through Coinbase.

Now I'll admit, I just signed up and whacked on a little bit to see how it would do. Life scenarios dictate I'd rather have that money in my account now so I went to withdraw it.

Coinbase were very happy to take my GBP but didn't make it clear that withdrawing GBP would be a mini nightmare. Firstly you need SEPA accounts set up which requires sending 6 euros to Estonia to verify the account is SEPA enabled. You need to gain your IBAN and Swift codes etc. I googled this and read horror stories of people sending several lots of 6euros to try and verify their account.

In the end I took advice from the forum and sent my money to another bitcoin site. I then sold these bitcoin to an individual buyer who paid me directly.

So, just a heads up to maybe think about how you will get your money back into your account. Obviously lost a little bit sending bitcoin from one wallet to another.

TBF, Coinbase is the most user-friendly way of buying BTC/ETH/LTC but it has it's draw backs - great for newbies as it's so simple, but anyone who really wants to work with their crypto-currency won't use it. They'll buy on Gdax (no fees) and send it elsewhere to withdraw their £££ quickly and simply. So I paid £250 for some LTC a few weeks back (9?) and today it's worth about £2150. I'll just send that to Bitfinex/Localbitcoins etc when I want to cash out. In the mean time I'm keeping it safe on a ledger.

P.S - many congrats on the news!

 

[piersa]

Did what, use his bitcoin in a cafe? Of course he didn't, who would spend bitcoin on goods and services? And that right there is why it can't be a real currency that will hold its value.

I hope he bought some more, as he said he was going to. I agree, it needs stability before it can be used as real currency. Far too volatile atm. Whether it will or not is another matter. It's all good fun while we are in this bubble though, if you invested relatively early.

 

[Notters]

who would spend bitcoin on goods and services?

People do!

 

[beorhthelm]

TBF, Coinbase is the most user-friendly way of buying BTC/ETH/LTC but it has it's draw backs - great for newbies as it's so simple, but anyone who really wants to work with their crypto-currency won't use it. They'll buy on Gdax (no fees) and send it elsewhere to withdraw their £££ quickly and simply. So I paid £250 for some LTC a few weeks back (9?) and today it's worth about £2150. I'll just send that to Bitfinex/Localbitcoins etc when I want to cash out. In the mean time I'm keeping it safe on a ledger.

P.S - many congrats on the news!

i've heard good things about CEX.io, in particular they offer option to withdraw to Credit card. this seems to bypass a lot of fuss with SEPA and even KYC regulations. another route seems to be prepaid cc or debit cards not sure if you have to convert crypto to local currency before you use it or if done on the fly. current fees for transaction on Bitcoin (£10 today !) would suggest pre-loading.

well done on the Litecoin, my Bitcoin has only tripled in similar time

 

[Biscuit]

i've heard good things about CEX.io, in particular they offer option to withdraw to Credit card. this seems to bypass a lot of fuss with SEPA and even KYC regulations. another route seems to be prepaid cc or debit cards not sure if you have to convert crypto to local currency before you use it or if done on the fly. current fees for transaction on Bitcoin (£10 today !) would suggest pre-loading.

well done on the Litecoin, my Bitcoin has only tripled in similar time

Thanks mate. It was those fees which made me go for LTC over BTC.

 

[mylesfdo]

Well I worked at LIFFE (London's Futures and Options Exchange) as an IT contractor for 18 months a while back. Didn't pick up much of the nitty gritty during my time there, have to admit, just enough to get by. But Futures are an OBLIGATION to 'Sell' or 'Buy' (or 'Put' or 'Call' in their terminology) the underlying asset at a specified point in the future, whereas Options , as the name suggests, give you the right, but NOT the obligation to Sell or Buy the underlying asset at a specified point in the future. Currently, as I understand it, there are no Bitcoin Options offered by any Exchange, only Bitcoin Futures.

So you obviously would need to trade the futures and close out position before expiry date unless got a healthy bank bal to buy the BTC at expiry at whatever rate?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

So you obviously would need to trade the futures and close out position before expiry date unless got a healthy bank bal to buy the BTC at expiry at whatever rate?

According to the CBOE website, the Bitcoin Futures are cash-settled i.e. you wouldn't be buying (or selling) any actual bitcoins, the settlement would be based on the price of the bitcoin at settlement. You'd be betting on the bitcoin price going up or down.

Here's a couple of links you might find useful, the first to the CBOE Bitcoin Futures section of the Exchange's site, and the second to a CNBC page on the subject with some very basic worked examples. But it's a complex subject and I wouldn't presume to give you any advice on derivitives trading strategies (even if I could!).Tho there are a number of posters who are traders on NSC who may be more able to assist. Might catch their eye with a new thread dedicated to Bitcoin Futures?

http://cfe.cboe.com/cfe-products/xbt-cboe-bitcoin-futures

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/08/with-bitcoin-futures-set-to-trade-heres-how-its-going-to-work.html

Good luck!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I hope he bought some more, as he said he was going to. I agree, it needs stability before it can be used as real currency. Far too volatile atm. Whether it will or not is another matter. It's all good fun while we are in this bubble though, if you invested relatively early.

I’ve not got round to it yet.