[Finance] The cryptocurrency (Bitcoin etc) thread

[dsr-burnley]

They shouldn't and they won't as you describe it.

A maximum consumer holding figure of £14K was outlined as part of the Uk Central Bank Digital Currency. I would expect consumer protection for these balances to be a consideration and for this to align to a far reaching reform and clean up of crypto, for key regulated markets including the UK.

I expect the libertarian dream of money free from government control will live on and thrive, but will exist in a different ecosystem.

The libertarian dream of money free from government control is also money free from government backing. Sterling is relatively stable because everyone is willing to accept it for value, and part of the reason is because the government (on behalf of the people) takes action to make it keep its value, including via taxes. Cryptocurrency doesn't have that backing.

And they haven't brought in consumer protection for the first £14k of share losses, so I don't see any earthly reason why they would for crypto.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

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I'll post again for anyone who wants to register free for overline

 

[CheeseRolls]

The libertarian dream of money free from government control is also money free from government backing. Sterling is relatively stable because everyone is willing to accept it for value, and part of the reason is because the government (on behalf of the people) takes action to make it keep its value, including via taxes. Cryptocurrency doesn't have that backing.

And they haven't brought in consumer protection for the first £14k of share losses, so I don't see any earthly reason why they would for crypto.

A CBDC balance is programmable money pegged to the Central Bank Currency and not a share.

You agree to sell me a Widget for £13K and want payment before you will ship me my widget. I want your widget, but don't want to part with any money until I have the widget in my hands. Today we can make this transaction happen via a credit card, which is an expensive form of insurance, all be it one that also adds some degree of additional protection if my widget doesn't do what it is supposed to do.

With a smart contract the payment is held in escrow and triggered when the widget is signed for. The outcome is the same but the cost of the transaction is lower. If the organisation holding the funds goes bust there is a big problem, however just the threat that this could happen and one or other of us could lose out, might be enough to undermine confidence and stop us from making this transaction.

 

[Knocky's Nose]

If the organisation holding the funds goes bust there is a big problem....

If it's done on the XRP Ledger, using XRP, it takes 3-5 seconds to complete the transaction (and costs next to nothing)... That's why it's so good - it eliminates the need for 'trust' in anyone and anything when exchange of money is involved.

That's why the banks are shit scared of it.

 

[beorhthelm]

With a smart contract the payment is held in escrow and triggered when the widget is signed for. The outcome is the same but the cost of the transaction is lower. If the organisation holding the funds goes bust there is a big problem, however just the threat that this could happen and one or other of us could lose out, might be enough to undermine confidence and stop us from making this transaction.

missing key point of smart contracts, there is no need for a 3rd party to hold the funds. the payment would be locked in your own account then released as required.

 

[CheeseRolls]

missing key point of smart contracts, there is no need for a 3rd party to hold the funds. the payment would be locked in your own account then released as required.

Technically yes of course. Is this going to be a big part of a UK consumer based CBDC I am not convinced.

1 Does the BoE want to deal with this, KYC and approving hardware wallets?
2 Try telling normies you sleep with a Nano S under your mattress, rather than keeping your money in a bank.
3 Transactions on credit

I expect you will be able to do this if you choose to, but I don't think it will be widely popular in the UK and U expect banks and credit cards to make it easy for consumers to carry on using their services.

 

[CheeseRolls]

I don't think this is behind a paywall, apologies if it is.

https://www.ft.com/partnercontent/r...the-next-era-of-global-payments-networks.html

It outlines the Ripple view of global payments for anyone interested.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

My Maker has taken a rather large upturn in the last week.

 

[beorhthelm]

I don't think this is behind a paywall, apologies if it is.

https://www.ft.com/partnercontent/r...the-next-era-of-global-payments-networks.html

It outlines the Ripple view of global payments for anyone interested.

the download is particularly interesting to explain the future of tokenised assets and CDBC.

it also shows an absense of XRP token in their products

 

[Marshy]

There's a whole new financial ecosystem coming, and some coins/tokens will be in it - and 99% will not. Once proper regulations come in this will kill off the tens of thousands of shitcoins like PEPE and so on. This digitised form of rotting potato peelings will eventually be outlawed, and I welcome the day this happens.

Crypto will be cleaned up, polished, and presented back to us on a silver platter when the banks, institutions and governments of the world have got their ducks in a row and stand to gain a fortune from this new digital financial world. Until then, it's purely speculative and should be treated as such.

Bitcoin will be a store of value as it's dogshit to transact with at scale, as is Ethereum. XRP, XLM and XDC will move the money (Banks, Retail, Industry - in that order) plus some other 'chosen ones'. You'll then have Quant and the like for interoperability between chains. No one crypto will be the 'winner' as they will all serve a specific function in their own niche. You just need to find the ones which have the best ideas, the best teams behind them, the best compliance, the best balance sheets, the best contacts and contracts and so on.

Buy wisely, and hold. If you do it's like buying Apple, Microsoft and Google shares for 10p each. We are very early, and early adopters always win big. It's just a patience thing, and most people seriously lack any of it - that's why they chase sodding frog meme coins and get rekt.

Final point. The big financial families and institutions own all the Money. Money owns politics. Money owns the media. When you own the government and the media - you can do what you want.... You can slow crypto down, you can scare the public away, you can line everything up in your favour. It's all a game for the wealthy - and we're not invited to the party.

this man speaks the truth

 

[Knocky's Nose]

the download is particularly interesting to explain the future of tokenised assets and CDBC.

it also shows an absense of XRP token in their products

ODL = XRP. This is a press release direct from Ripple. Brad Garlinghouse has also confirmed this in many speeches and interviews...

 

[beorhthelm]

ODL = XRP. This is a press release direct from Ripple. Brad Garlinghouse has also confirmed this in many speeches and interviews...

View attachment 163046

pretty obvious by now XRP is a test implementation of their ledger tech, not destined to be used by clients. they'll use their own customised version, basically what the report is selling.

 

[Knocky's Nose]

pretty obvious by now XRP is a test implementation of their ledger tech, not destined to be used by clients. they'll use their own customised version, basically what the report is selling.

Are you saying they won't be using XRP for their on demand liquidity offering? If so, you've not only missed the dartboard - you've thrown it backwards over your left shoulder.

 

[pb21]

Governor of the Bank of England, Andrew Bailey, currently talking about CBDC on sky news.

 

[beorhthelm]

Are you saying they won't be using XRP for their on demand liquidity offering? If so, you've not only missed the dartboard - you've thrown it backwards over your left shoulder.

not too important to the point. if you read the report linked from the article you'd know its about services not using XRP. it only mentions the token as an example of crypto, along with Bitcoin. secondly using a token in ODL is not important to its value, as any transaction would buy and shortly afterwards sell the token, so negligable impact on price. thridly, you dont need to use the floating token when you can issue new XRP for the buy and burn on the sell. the purpose of the ledger is to verify the issue/burn were applied, and that the service they are selling in their report.

 

[Knocky's Nose]

not too important to the point. if you read the report linked from the article you'd know its about services not using XRP. it only mentions the token as an example of crypto, along with Bitcoin. secondly using a token in ODL is not important to its value, as any transaction would buy and shortly afterwards sell the token, so negligable impact on price. thridly, you dont need to use the floating token when you can issue new XRP for the buy and burn on the sell. the purpose of the ledger is to verify the issue/burn were applied, and that the service they are selling in their report.

You are correct in that purely ODL transactions won't vastly inflate the token value unless a colossal amount goes through it which will require 24/7 massive payments. Not too many people realise that. It's the tokens locked up on the XRPL for other uses which will increase value and therefore scarcity increases. When value goes up and stabilises to a degree people will also see it as a safe store of value and lock even more up. I think they call it the flywheel effect.

As far as XRP being used for ODL, many tokens can be used (and will be), but the XRP token is native to the XRP ledger - and you'd think they'd make that the preferred route. Ripple Labs have around 50 Billion (Escrow plus purchases from the open market bought back) so it's very much in their interest to inflate the price. Institutions are the same - many were sold a huge amount with a timel-lock clause, so again it's very much in their interests to see the price of XRP rise.

I possibly misunderstood your answer (I'm still learning..) so apologies if I have. It just looked to me that you were saying that clients would have their own private blockchain for ODL, not using XRP - or using a private version. David Schwartz has already said that XRP is XRP, and if there were a private and a public ledger at different prices the arbitragers would have a field day.

 

[beorhthelm]

I possibly misunderstood your answer (I'm still learning..) so apologies if I have. It just looked to me that you were saying that clients would have their own private blockchain for ODL, not using XRP - or using a private version. David Schwartz has already said that XRP is XRP, and if there were a private and a public ledger at different prices the arbitragers would have a field day.

yes, larger institutions, governments, will have their own blockchains. they arent going to allow a thrid party to hold or control large amounts of the token (essentially their currency), though will be happy to use some tech stack. the report talks about CDBCs, NFTs, tokenising assets and nothing about how XRP will do any of that.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

yes, larger institutions, governments, will have their own blockchains. they arent going to allow a thrid party to hold or control large amounts of the token (essentially their currency), though will be happy to use some tech stack. the report talks about CDBCs, NFTs, tokenising assets and nothing about how XRP will do any of that.

Why would they want/need a slow and inefficient blockchain at all? Why not an all-singing all-dancing centralised database, same as they use for most purposes at the moment? IMHO blockchain remains a solution looking for a problem

 

[CheeseRolls]

Why would they want/need a slow and inefficient blockchain at all? Why not an all-singing all-dancing centralised database, same as they use for most purposes at the moment? IMHO blockchain remains a solution looking for a problem

I see no ships!

Take a look at Distributed Ledger Technology versus centralised database technology and you will get a feel for why many organisations are making the move.

 

[pb21]

IMHO blockchain remains a solution looking for a problem

Andrew Bailey referenced that type of thinking in his speech yesterday, saying something along the lines of 'we don't need trains, apparently horses are as good'.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/speech/2023/july/new-prospects-for-money-speech-by-andrew-bailey.pdf

Anyway, its a all a moot point as I heard the UK Government has dropped all things crypto like a hot potato.