[Finance] The cryptocurrency (Bitcoin etc) thread

[Tyrone Biggums]

I’m probably not the first to say that we’ve all been waiting a long time to see a bank man fried. Isn’t crypto just a giant ponzi scheme built on sand or does it have a sustainable future?

Depends which projects you talk about.

Blockchain has a huge sustainable future going forward.

If a business can profit from their blockchain technology then it's no different to a software or tech company in many ways.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

So nan

Depends which projects you talk about.

Blockchain has a huge sustainable future going forward.

If a business can profit from their blockchain technology then it's no different to a software or tech company in many ways.

Blockchain is nothing more fancy than a publicly-viewable read/append-only database tho eh? That's been around for yonks

 

[pb21]

The decentralised in this case refers to not being swamped with Government regulation.

The whole point of crypto when it began.

CZ didn't like how SBF was balls deep with the Feds.

I'm not sure the whole point of crypto is an avoidance of government regulation, rather the privacy of transactions (the original cypher punks), and/or the avoidance of financial 3rd parties (banks) requiring trust, as per the BTC white paper.

Obviously government regulation is closely linked, but I really don't think it was the whole point.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Hilarious and tragic in equal parts that gullible grown-ups entrusted their life savings to a bunch of nerds living their best life in a frat house in The Bahamas

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I'm not sure the whole point of crypto is an avoidance of government regulation, rather the privacy of transactions (the original cypher punks), and/or the avoidance of financial 3rd parties (banks) requiring trust, as per the BTC white paper.

Obviously government regulation is closely linked, but I really don't think it was the whole point.

They had been trading barb's with each other for a while over lobbying of certain politicians.

From what's been written CZ definitely had big issues with who SBF was talking to and the types of regulation he was pushing.

 

[warmleyseagull]

I’m probably not the first to say that we’ve all been waiting a long time to see a bank man fried. Isn’t crypto just a giant ponzi scheme built on sand or does it have a sustainable future?

You'll probably get fried now by the supposedly ITK brigade on here who think crypto is a goldmine and think that those of us who invest in companies and funds that have been around a while and do weird things like paying dividends are mad. Of course it is a ponzi scheme, dressed carefully in suitable arcane BS language designed so its ardent followers feel special. There is SOME value in SOME of it SOMETIME, but no-one has convinced me of what, when, and how much.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

So nan

Blockchain is nothing more fancy than a publicly-viewable read/append-only database tho eh? That's been around for yonks

Many things are around for a while before they become mass adopted.

Something can be around as a thing but until it's used for a wide variety of uses then it's limited.

It's replacing old systems.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

You'll probably get fried now by the supposedly ITK brigade on here who think crypto is a goldmine and think that those of us who invest in companies and funds that have been around a while and do weird things like paying dividends are mad. Of course it is a ponzi scheme, dressed carefully in suitable arcane BS language designed so its ardent followers feel special. There is SOME value in SOME of it SOMETIME, but no-one has convinced me of what, when, and how much.

Who says crypto is a goldmine on here?

It's simply a better way if you're not greedy to get better ROI than shitty shares returns.

You talk like the stock market isn't manipulated.

Gamestop proved it most certainly is.

 

[OzMike]

alot of bots about in crypto, refering to something specific?

Yep, Elon Musk is apparently pushing this, does it have legs ?

 

[basque seagull]

The decentralised in this case refers to not being swamped with Government regulation.

The whole point of crypto when it began.

CZ didn't like how SBF was balls deep with the Feds.

Remind me again exactly where it says that in the Satoshi whitepaper......

 

[beorhthelm]

Yep, Elon Musk is apparently pushing this, does it have legs ?

still not sure. there is a lot of bot problems on Twitter, also bitcoin, crypto trading use bots. maybe some wires crossed.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I’m probably not the first to say that we’ve all been waiting a long time to see a bank man fried. Isn’t crypto just a giant ponzi scheme built on sand or does it have a sustainable future?

It doesn't have a sustainable past. Crypto doesn't generate income, it doesn't possess assets. If you buy it, all you own is a bit of computer code, and all it is worth is what someone else will pay for it. There are no underlying assets and no trading income.

The future prospects are based on the idea that supply is limited (in theory at least) and so people will want them just because there aren't very many. A bit like non-fungible tokens, I suppose. The problem with any sort of use as a currency is that the exchange rate (as we have seen) is so wildly variable. Imagine if the dollar was worth £1.20 today but only 50p tomorrow - it wouldn't be the world's favourite currency then. People like holding dollars because they believe them to be stable.

 

[warmleyseagull]

Who says crypto is a goldmine on here?

It's simply a better way if you're not greedy to get better ROI than shitty shares returns.

You talk like the stock market isn't manipulated.

Gamestop proved it most certainly is.

Carry on believing, you are well past the point of no return.

 

[warmleyseagull]

You talk like the stock market isn't manipulated.

Of course it is; Gamestop is a bad example as it required a concerted effort; much easier for rogue individuals to ramp Penny shares, which has been happening for yonks. Never seen Wolf of Wall Street or Wall Street? The difference is that the legit market is sufficiently well established to provide a reasonably ordered and maintained structure for safe investing for most people most of the time. Crypto is a relatively young market with consequent greater volatility and uncertainty. I agree it is a question of degree and that shares can be hyped and do crash, but on the whole provide a less uncertain home for investors.

If going large on ROI and bugger the consequences, then crypto is your game, but it will inevitably fail for the vast majority because it is akin to Ponzi.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Of course it is; Gamestop is a bad example as it required a concerted effort; much easier for rogue individuals to ramp Penny shares, which has been happening for yonks. Never seen Wolf of Wall Street or Wall Street? The difference is that the legit market is sufficiently well established to provide a reasonably ordered and maintained structure for safe investing for most people most of the time. Crypto is a relatively young market with consequent greater volatility and uncertainty. I agree it is a question of degree and that shares can be hyped and do crash, but on the whole provide a less uncertain home for investors.

If going large on ROI and bugger the consequences, then crypto is your game, but it will inevitably fail for the vast majority because it is akin to Ponzi.

You don't have to go large though do you.

You don't even have to take great risk in achieving a higher ROI % than you might via shares or Superannuation.

If you're getting 12% return using tradition markets and methods if all you aim for is 20% via crypto it's not that risky at all.

Only thing that wrecks people is greed.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Carry on believing, you are well past the point of no return.

What point would that be?

I keep getting told by these stock market stooges that crypto is this and that yet I still keep getting better ROI than they do.

If I'm making money then isn't that the exact point of any financial investment?

I mean who actually gives a shit how you do it so long as you do it.

 

[CheeseRolls]

I’m probably not the first to say that we’ve all been waiting a long time to see a bank man fried. Isn’t crypto just a giant ponzi scheme built on sand or does it have a sustainable future?

It is both. The technology has neither human greed or a political agenda.
When the technology is applied it can and does appeal to human greed.
It can and does support the libertarian dream which TB is signed up for, but it also supports the vision of many global businesses, banks and governments.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

How about this for a wondrous stroke of luck? Michael Lewis is a superb writer on financial matters. Can't wait for the book!

'Bestselling author Michael Lewis, whose books include The Big Short and Flash Boys, is writing about the former boss of the failed cryptocurrency exchange [FTX] for his next book.
...
A leaked email from CAA agent Matthew Snyder, seen by The Ankler, revealed that Lewis has been embedded with Bankman-Fried for the last six months.'

FTX crypto king Sam Bankman-Fried subject of new book by Michael Lewis

Bestselling writer Lewis has been shadowing Bankman-Fried as the cryptocurrency founder’s company, FTX, failed

www.theguardian.com

 

[schmunk]

You don't have to go large though do you.

You don't even have to take great risk in achieving a higher ROI % than you might via shares or Superannuation.

If you're getting 12% return using tradition markets and methods if all you aim for is 20% via crypto it's not that risky at all.

Only thing that wrecks people is greed.

What's your ROI looking like over the last 6 months?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

You don't have to go large though do you.

You don't even have to take great risk in achieving a higher ROI % than you might via shares or Superannuation.

If you're getting 12% return using tradition markets and methods if all you aim for is 20% via crypto it's not that risky at all.

Only thing that wrecks people is greed.

Is this the kind of crap you are 'investing' in? It's pure Ponzi, it's built on fresh air, and it's completely unsustainable. Guaranteed you'll wake up one morning, withdrawals are suspended and your 'investment' is gone in a puff of smoke and mirrors