The crushing effect of parachute payments...

[Lady Whistledown]

We all await with keen interest..

Don't hold your breath. I believe there's a meeting of clubs this week at which a number of clubs- guess which ones!- are likely to request changes to the rules.

Which strikes me as vaguely akin to inviting a hundred plump turkeys to vote in a referendum asking the question "Do you think the traditional British Christmas dinner should be changed to goose this year?"

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Don't hold your breath. I believe there's a meeting of clubs this week at which a number of clubs- guess which ones!- are likely to request changes to the rules.

Which strikes me as vaguely akin to inviting a hundred plump turkeys to vote in a referendum asking the question "Do you think the traditional British Christmas dinner should be changed to goose this year?"

That's good mind you if fines are not to be the order of the day,i hope transfer embargo's of some sort are.

 

[nwgull]

Don't hold your breath. I believe there's a meeting of clubs this week at which a number of clubs- guess which ones!- are likely to request changes to the rules.

Which strikes me as vaguely akin to inviting a hundred plump turkeys to vote in a referendum asking the question "Do you think the traditional British Christmas dinner should be changed to goose this year?"

I'd assume that they'd need at least 13 clubs to vote for a change to the rules, especially this late in the day. These are limits, with the sanctions known, that the league has been playing to for almost 18 months now. How could they justify change the rules now that it doesn't suit them?

It's positive to read that some clubs and local press, Blackburn for example, have accepted as inevitable that the embargo will affect them. Maybe the reluctance to splash out our incoming 11m in the summer was part of a longer term plan to pick up some bargains in a January fire-sale. I could just be being over optimistic on this one, but the club did state that we didn't have financial need to sell either Leo or Buckley (or Bridcutt for that matter).

 

[Rugrat]

Don't hold your breath. I believe there's a meeting of clubs this week at which a number of clubs- guess which ones!- are likely to request changes to the rules.

Which strikes me as vaguely akin to inviting a hundred plump turkeys to vote in a referendum asking the question "Do you think the traditional British Christmas dinner should be changed to goose this year?"

If any agreed changes aren't adopted from the next reporting point forward then the integrity of any approach will be totally undermined and I'd imagine open to all sorts of challenge (given that obvious culprits might be "let off"),

I really hope the rules are changed given the overly simplistic approach but only after enforcing the currently agreed rules on those that didn't comply

 

[Giraffe]

The FFP rules are a long way from being perfect, and they will become a complete waste of time if they are not acted on with severe penalties.

However the point of the thread is that you don't need parachute payments to compete at this level. A good recruitment policy, mixed with a good academy and a good manager will see you challenge in this division. We only seem to have one out of the three at the moment.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The FFP rules are a long way from being perfect, and they will become a complete waste of time if they are not acted on with severe penalties.

However the point of the thread is that you don't need parachute payments to compete at this level. A good recruitment policy, mixed with a good academy and a good manager will see you challenge in this division. We only seem to have one out of the three at the moment.

Exactly

 

[Icy Gull]

Check this out

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/...ubs-can-expect-to-receive-a-transfer-embargo-

It will make for a really interesting January window if the embargoes are implemented.

 

[Bozza]

The FFP rules are a long way from being perfect, and they will become a complete waste of time if they are not acted on with severe penalties.

However the point of the thread is that you don't need parachute payments to compete at this level. A good recruitment policy, mixed with a good academy and a good manager will see you challenge in this division. We only seem to have one out of the three at the moment.

Ah - if only he'd said. It read as yet another pop at Paul Barber. Thanks for explaining.

 

[Icy Gull]

The FFP rules are a long way from being perfect, and they will become a complete waste of time if they are not acted on with severe penalties.

However the point of the thread is that you don't need parachute payments to compete at this level. A good recruitment policy, mixed with a good academy and a good manager will see you challenge in this division. We only seem to have one out of the three at the moment.

We two out of three three years ago, and a massive boost in attendances and feel good factor too but it went pear shaped. We threw money at the squad that I refuse to believe we have continued to do since Poyet left ( this years accounts will clarify that though) Better to have had a go and failed than never to have had a go at all. Downhill from the moment Barber and Poyet fell out unfortunately.

 

[wakeytom]

The FFP rules are a long way from being perfect, and they will become a complete waste of time if they are not acted on with severe penalties.

However the point of the thread is that you don't need parachute payments to compete at this level. A good recruitment policy, mixed with a good academy and a good manager will see you challenge in this division. We only seem to have one out of the three at the moment.

As good as the academy is I think with the new facilities you will struggle to see the best for at least 5/6 years but at that point if run well you will be in a really strong position - 1 reason why Leeds's new appointment is even more strange as one thing they always do well with is the academey and now they promote the man running it who will be sacked at some point and more likely sooner rather than later which will be the biggest loss for the club

 

[Weststander]

Furthermore, of the four "paupers doing well" examples that you cite, I'd say only Derby are a decent club being run prudently and reaping just rewards. There are obvious peculiarities about each of the other three, and it doesn't take too much digging to unearth those.

Bournemouth - in their last audited accounts, what was their wages figure compared to ours? Transfers - they bought a £3m striker, but earned several times that in their Lallana cut, and Grabban fee.

Middlesbrough - the same question regarding their wages? Then, have they embarked on a transfer fees spending spree?

Where I have asked a question, I genuinely don't know the answers, but apart from some Albion fans who have intimated Bournemouth are buying success, I get the opposite impression in that they are NOT doing a Leicester/Forest/QPR/Watford in buying promotion to the PL any more than we were or are.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Ah - if only he'd said. It read as yet another pop at Paul Barber. Thanks for explaining.

What, so the CEO can post, via you, three separate threads and then write a huge set of programme notes saying basically the same thing but also attacking critics and any reply is having a(nother) pop? Right o.

 

[Weststander]

What, so the CEO can post, via you, three separate threads and then write a huge set of programme notes saying basically the same thing but also attacking critics and any reply is having a(nother) pop? Right o.

Is the constant talk of Paul Barber a 'red herring'? He didn't invent FFP neither is it his decision, it's entirely TB's as the owner and Chairman, that he (TB) wants the club to abide by FFP. At the same time limiting how much he has to pump in every season from personal funds to cover the losses. PB is the senior employee who has to follow that strategy and communicate it to the fans, making him unpopular to those who blame the messenger.

 

[Diego Napier]

Is the constant talk of Paul Barber a 'red herring'? He didn't invent FFP neither is it his decision, it's entirely TB's as the owner and Chairman, that he (TB) wants the club to abide by FFP. At the same time limiting how much he has to pump in every season from personal funds to cover the losses. PB is the senior employee who has to follow that strategy and communicate it to the fans, making him unpopular to those who blame the messenger.

You're right, he's simply an easy target for the dissenting voices who're frustrated and angry with the club's position in the league. It's much easier to look for simple reasons than to accept that lots of effective measures have been taken and a bit of trust and patience is required.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Is the constant talk of Paul Barber a 'red herring'? He didn't invent FFP neither is it his decision, it's entirely TB's as the owner and Chairman, that he (TB) wants the club to abide by FFP. At the same time limiting how much he has to pump in every season from personal funds to cover the losses. PB is the senior employee who has to follow that strategy and communicate it to the fans, making him unpopular to those who blame the messenger.

Well it's obviously TBs budget and TBs club. The thing with Paul Barber is that critique that was posted on here from Vancouver when he arrived and then reposted on a match thread. That he tied up a lot of commercials, wrote emails back to fans and was great at marketing and slogans but that the Whitecaps ultimately failed on the pitch under him, which was the only thing the fans cared about. Sounds pretty familiar no?

There are a couple of other things to be said. If his remit is largely in cutting the debt (and we are led to believe it is) then he has done an excellent job in that respect. He has also been open in going (with TB) to fans' forums. And while I could happily name five or six managers I'd rather have than Hyypia my knowledge of football CEOs isn't as strong and I've no idea if the next man would be better.

Nevertheless if you are going to lecture the fans at a period when the team is sliding down the table like a toddler on a slippery mat you've got to expect some comeback or debate's dead.

 

[Weststander]

Well it's obviously TBs budget and TBs club. The thing with Paul Barber is that critique that was posted on here from Vancouver when he arrived and then reposted on a match thread. That he tied up a lot of commercials, wrote emails back to fans and was great at marketing and slogans but that the Whitecaps ultimately failed on the pitch under him, which was the only thing the fans cared about. Sounds pretty familiar no?

There are a couple of other things to be said. If his remit is largely in cutting the debt (and we are led to believe it is) then he has done an excellent job in that respect. He has also been open in going (with TB) to fans' forums. And while I could happily name five or six managers I'd rather have than Hyypia my knowledge of football CEOs isn't as strong and I've no idea if the next man would be better.

Nevertheless if you are going to lecture the fans at a period when the team is sliding down the table like a toddler on a slippery mat you've got to expect some comeback or debate's dead.

Everyone would agree with free speech and opinions, I hope.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I actually agree with you on that. It's ridiculous for Bournemouth to claim they had any positive influence on his development (in fact, when you look at the apparent strength of Southampton's academy, it could be argued that Lallana only became so good because of the Saints' efforts), but that's what the rules allow clubs to claim, so I suppose Bournemouth have simply taken advantage of that.

It's a pretty daft rule which allows a club to claim the same for a player who was with them as a small child, as one who stayed until 16, but there you go.

I'm not sure the Lallana fee will fall under the next set of accounts to be published anyway, will it?

They've done nothing wrong, and I wouldn't try and argue that. Their young player was poached and had his head turned at a young age, as part of the agreement they were entitled to the sell on clause and Southampton have now sold him on. On the face of it, it's that simple - but 14 years later? Are they still entitled to the same benefit? Personally, I don't think so. But they've not done anything wrong.

No, it will be for this season so it'll be published next year. This is another point people forget or overlook, the business we did in the summer is really quite irrelevant at the moment because the accounts will be for last season and any punishments will be for the activity long since done and forgotten about. FFP is a very difficult topic to discuss when you start factoring in all the anomalies that most people won't be aware of, how many sell on clauses will we not know about? How many clubs will have revenue streams the layman won't know about? We're all quite misinformed with football finances in general, with the exception perhaps of [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION].

 

[Giraffe]

Ah - if only he'd said. It read as yet another pop at Paul Barber. Thanks for explaining.

I try to help you when I can

 

[KZNSeagull]

Well it's obviously TBs budget and TBs club. The thing with Paul Barber is that critique that was posted on here from Vancouver when he arrived and then reposted on a match thread. That he tied up a lot of commercials, wrote emails back to fans and was great at marketing and slogans but that the Whitecaps ultimately failed on the pitch under him, which was the only thing the fans cared about. Sounds pretty familiar no?

There are a couple of other things to be said. If his remit is largely in cutting the debt (and we are led to believe it is) then he has done an excellent job in that respect. He has also been open in going (with TB) to fans' forums. And while I could happily name five or six managers I'd rather have than Hyypia my knowledge of football CEOs isn't as strong and I've no idea if the next man would be better.

Nevertheless if you are going to lecture the fans at a period when the team is sliding down the table like a toddler on a slippery mat you've got to expect some comeback or debate's dead.

It does, but is that not more to do with the nature of football at the moment rather than PB the individual? ie it is extremely difficult to be competitive on the pitch and self-sustaining at the same time.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The original concept of FFP was that the non compliant clubs were fined and these monies went into a pot which was then shared out between the clubs who didn't break the rules. If the sensible clubs each had an extra £3M or £4M to stick into their playing budgets it would have made it a slightly more level playing field against the clubs with parachute payments.