"The Club isn't making things happen"

[The Merry Prankster]

Casual sexism isn't necessarily about focusing on gender as the argument, but in the presentation of the argument...



"Shut up, woman" - emphasising her gender. That would constitute casual sexism.








Bint, bitch - a gender specific insult, again about highlighting her gender.








Andy Naylor tweets about gus, or oscar, or any kemy agustein - he's a journo with an inside track. Noelia posts about oscar (in response to brighton fans questions, I might add) and she is a stalker, with reference to one of the most famous femme fatale of all time. Because really, women can only be interested in football because they are in love with men.







Yeah, let's dismiss what she's saying and just ogle her and objectify her.


When Andy Naylor is criticised on here, it is always about the work, whether it be him being behind the times, getting all his info off NSC, or being wrong with regard to CMS. It is never about him being a man, never about how good (or not) he looks, any insults are never gender specific, that only apply because he is a man.

I doubt those posts I quote intended to be sexist, and I imagine some will argue they're not (partly because it wasn't intended sexism, and in the latter posts, because they were jokes). That is what casual sexism is about. Often times it is not even the conscious intent, it's about ingrained outdated social and cultural norms.

Thoughtful and incisive. I like the way people then spring up to say " not me" instead of digesting your post and thinking maybe I am casually sexist. Doesn't fit with their view of themselves but does fit with their actions.

 

[Acker79]

OK, for my part, if you read what I said on this thread properly, you would have seen I quite purposefully did not dismiss what she says, in fact I argued the total opposite that it was possible she had some insight - but yes guilty on the flip comment/ogling her bit. But there actually is no automatic connection between admiring someone's physical form and dismissing their skill/prowess in their chosen professional field, that kind of very crude anti-sex verbiage has sadly alienated even a lot of women these days from identifying as feminists. As for objectifying her, that term is controversial even within feminist circles as an analytically useful term, given its recent adoption by some social conservatives to justify sexually repressive laws/exhortations that end up harming women (but perhaps not the time/place to have a long debate about all this!)

"Sorry I didn't hear what you said" indicates not paying attention to what she's saying, because "I can't stop staring at that pert arse".

The term objectification may be controversial, but it was about simplifying the explanation because it was late, and I was simply highlighting what I saw in the thread that some people can view as casual sexism.

Like I said I don't think you were trying to be sexist (your other comments are indeed fair and indicative of someone who isn't generally sexist), but the one I quoted is the sort of comment, however innocent or flattering the conscious intent, can be seen by some as casual sexism because of that first part of not paying attention to what she says because you're busy looking at her as a woman rather than a person providing you with information.

I'm not saying this to condemn you, or others in this thread, just highlighting where we all (and I'm sure if you were to waste time going through my posting history I'm probably guilty of it somewhere) through the culture we've grown up in say things that are casually sexist without realising or intending it.

 

[dwayne]

Acker79

Calling this young lady a bitch maybe slightly aggressive but I do not believe its sexist for 2 reasons...

1) a man can be a bitch

2) she was being bitchy

 

[greyseagull]

Casual sexism isn't necessarily about focusing on gender as the argument, but in the presentation of the argument...



"Shut up, woman" - emphasising her gender. That would constitute casual sexism.








Bint, bitch - a gender specific insult, again about highlighting her gender.








Andy Naylor tweets about gus, or oscar, or any kemy agustein - he's a journo with an inside track. Noelia posts about oscar (in response to brighton fans questions, I might add) and she is a stalker, with reference to one of the most famous femme fatale of all time. Because really, women can only be interested in football because they are in love with men.







Yeah, let's dismiss what she's saying and just ogle her and objectify her.


When Andy Naylor is criticised on here, it is always about the work, whether it be him being behind the times, getting all his info off NSC, or being wrong with regard to CMS. It is never about him being a man, never about how good (or not) he looks, any insults are never gender specific, that only apply because he is a man.

I doubt those posts I quote intended to be sexist, and I imagine some will argue they're not (partly because it wasn't intended sexism, and in the latter posts, because they were jokes). That is what casual sexism is about. Often times it is not even the conscious intent, it's about ingrained outdated social and cultural norms.

Did you have to make this message so long? The wife struggled to scroll the screen for me whilst squeezing my tea bag.

 

[jgmcdee]

Did you have to make this message so long? The wife struggled to scroll the screen for me whilst squeezing my tea bag.

Did we just jump threads again?

 

[greyseagull]

Did we just jump threads again?

I've no idea what's going on

 

[Acker79]

Acker79

Calling this young lady a bitch maybe slightly aggressive but I do not believe its sexist for 2 reasons...

1) a man can be a bitch

2) she was being bitchy

1) When you call a man a bitch, it is about undermining his masculinity, suggesting he is being feminine, with the implication it is bad for men to like that.
2) exactly how is highlighting he hasn't had a chance to sign the players he wants yet, that it is taking a while and empathising with Oscar suggesting he is probably just as frustrated as the fans "bitchy"?

 

[dwayne]

1) When you call a man a bitch, it is about undermining his masculinity, suggesting he is being feminine, with the implication it is bad for men to like that.
2) exactly how is highlighting he hasn't had a chance to sign the players he wants yet, that it is taking a while and empathising with Oscar suggesting he is probably just as frustrated as the fans "bitchy"?

Hmmm so maybe the word bitch needs to be banned full stop to avoid offence.

2) she said the club are taking "forever" and its only been 4 weeks since oscar joined. I think you could construe that as a bitchy statement !!

 

[SeagullSongs]

Well as she is just a student at the moment, she still has quite a bit to learn, why not support her and help her further her career? I think her knowledge of English culture (especially that of the fans) is lacking somewhat, she understands the words people are saying, but perhaps not the underlying meaning.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

OK, for my part, if you read what I said on this thread properly, you would have seen I quite purposefully did not dismiss what she says, in fact I argued the total opposite that it was possible she had some insight - but yes guilty on the flip comment/ogling her bit. But there actually is no automatic connection between admiring someone's physical form and dismissing their skill/prowess in their chosen professional field, that kind of very crude anti-sex verbiage has sadly alienated even a lot of women these days from identifying as feminists. As for objectifying her, that term is controversial even within feminist circles as an analytically useful term, given its recent adoption by some social conservatives to justify sexually repressive laws/exhortations that end up harming women (but perhaps not the time/place to have a long debate about all this!)

LI back to form. Definately this.

 

[Icy Gull]

LI back to form. Definately this.

It's like stepping back in time, in a good way imo, a thread with both LI and Dwayne posting!

 

[Acker79]

Hmmm so maybe the word bitch needs to be banned full stop to avoid offence.

2) she said the club are taking "forever" and its only been 4 weeks since oscar joined. I think you could construe that as a bitchy statement !!

Bitchy? No. Exaggeration sure.

 

[greyseagull]

Can we all agree, now that Spanish Dave is confirmed, that she knows naff-all?

 

[7:18]

Can we all agree, now that Spanish Dave is confirmed, that she knows naff-all?

si senior!

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

Can we all agree, now that Spanish Dave is confirmed, that she knows naff-all?

No as at the time she said that even he didnt think he was coming back so how could she know something different.

 

[The Large One]

You can be a total bell-end sometimes. This has nothing to do with the fact she is a woman.

Oh dear.

The point being made is that it shouldn't have anything to do with her being a woman, but for some it evidently does.

Sadly, it looks like you've missed that, and chosen to ignore the point I was making.

 

[London Irish]

"Sorry I didn't hear what you said" indicates not paying attention to what she's saying, because "I can't stop staring at that pert arse".

Erm, no, it was a flip joke aimed at the previous post to mine, not aimed at the Spanish journalist at all, who I think is offering interesting inisghts. But this is getting a bit silly, you seem to be almost living up to the Viz satirical stereotype of the humourless equality campaigner. Please in futuire don't lump me in with those who use genuinely offensive language like bitch etc

 

[B.W.]

Nope. I see fans overreacting.

Well, I see both.

 

[dwayne]

Erm, no, it was a flip joke aimed at the previous post to mine, not aimed at the Spanish journalist at all, who I think is offering interesting inisghts. But this is getting a bit silly, you seem to be almost living up to the Viz satirical stereotype of the humourless equality campaigner. Please in futuire don't lump me in with those who use genuinely offensive language like bitch etc

Yep.... Still pompous

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Erm, no, it was a flip joke aimed at the previous post to mine, not aimed at the Spanish journalist at all, who I think is offering interesting inisghts. But this is getting a bit silly, you seem to be almost living up to the Viz satirical stereotype of the humourless equality campaigner. Please in futuire don't lump me in with those who use genuinely offensive language like bitch etc

I wonder if a woman would see it that way?