The bigger ****. Hunt or Grayling?

[spring hall convert]

The link between the two? They have 25k+ majorities. Jobs for life, they can afford to be deeply unpopular as they're never going to lose their seats.

And another. Nothing is ever their fault or responsibility to sort out, despite their job titles indicating otherwise.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Maybe it is Labour's shame that they are so utterly unelectable that twunts like these can continue with their astonishing levels of ignorance and incompetence whilst safe in the knowledge that they will still be in power for years.

I have some faith that the British public will not unequivocally elect this Tory shambles to power, regardless of the opposition. We saw with both Brexit and Trump that when large sections of the public are pissed off, they'll vote against the popular perception.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I have some faith that the British public will not unequivocally elect this Tory shambles to power, regardless of the opposition. We saw with both Brexit and Trump that when large sections of the public are pissed off, they'll vote against the popular perception.

I will never vote for the Labour party again, ever and I don't care how bad the Tories get. I'm probably not the only one who thinks this way either. The labour party fkd us over and they will never be forgiven for their migration shambles.

 

[spring hall convert]

Less managers and more staff would help the NHS immeasurably - in fact that goes for virtually every business !
In terms of the current discussion - Jeremy Hunt has to be the worst. Grayling does run him very close but he is just completely incompetent,
Friends of mine were at university with Grayling and he was known to be a complete knob there too. Nobody is surprised at his inability to sort the rail crisis

I'm interested what makes you think they are incompetent.

I strongly suspect they are doing exactly the jobs that is being asked of them. May had the chance to boot Hunt out of health a few months ago, she didn't. He's doing exactly what the Tories want. Equally, there is no Governmental pressure on Grayling to resolve the Southern Rail/ RMT debacle.

Their monster majorities enable them to be convenient scapegoats for policy. Calling them incompetent lets the Government off the hook for policy decisions that they are making.

 

[Simster]

I will never vote for the Labour party again, ever and I don't care how bad the Tories get. I'm probably not the only one who thinks this way either. The labour party fkd us over and they will never be forgiven for their migration shambles.

You are not alone, but I'll ask you - what have the Conservatives done in the last SIX years to reverse this then? And before you mention Brexit, that hasn't actually happened yet and there are no guarantees that migration will be reversed anyway.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Hunt .... because the NHS is more important and he really does not see it.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I will never vote for the Labour party again, ever and I don't care how bad the Tories get. I'm probably not the only one who thinks this way either. The labour party fkd us over and they will never be forgiven for their migration shambles.

Of course, it is always that way whichever party is in power. My Dad will never vote Labour because of what happened in the late '70's, and I will never vote Tory because of what happened during the 80's and 90's, and you'll never vote Labour because of the Blair years and there will be others who never vote Tory because of the current omnishambles.

The point is that no party stays in power forever and things always switch. You may not vote Labour but you'll certainly consider voting for another party, whether its libdems or UKIP or Green, or just neglect to vote, and the parties will switch and the wheel will keep on turning. Policies never really change. All you can ask of a government is competence and fairness, regardless of the colour of their rosette, but when they start failing, tha'ts when we switch.

Fair to say though, that I've never really experienced a time where the competence of both major parties can be questioned so openly and across the board.

 

[glasfryn]

looks like dave yes that dave got out just in time

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Did he manage to look remotely towards the camera this time? The footage I saw a couple of days ago was shocking, permanently looking at the floor pretty much. Not that I'd ever trust a word that came out of his mouth but the way he came across made it even worse.

No, of course not. Evasive and shifty as ever.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

You are not alone, but I'll ask you - what have the Conservatives done in the last SIX years to reverse this then? And before you mention Brexit, that hasn't actually happened yet and there are no guarantees that migration will be reversed anyway.

And even to claim Brexit as an example of Conservative action would be pretty disingenuous, given that the Party leader led the Remain campaign, no?

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

I would love to believe that Labour has something to offer the public in general rather than the Corbynites but every time you think they might be seeing the big picture, Corbin himself pulls the rug out from under himself. Yesterday, for example, he talked about a wages cap, which would be easily got round,instead of the much simpler reversal of the Tory tax cuts for the wealthy.

John Rentoul of The Independent suggested a policy angle which would surely be a winner for Labour - that the referendum result was a vote for more spending on the NHS. Boris's bus said so. That keeps him away from immigration, where he's dangerously at odds with Labour voters north of London, but gives him an unanswerable stick with which to beat the Torres. But that's far too sensible for the present Labour leadership.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I don't think he meant that.

I don't either, I am just highlighting the stupidity of tarring everyone with the same brush.

 

[Albumen]

It's Hunt. And we're all screwed once we fall ill.

 

[Hastings gull]

Of course, the failings of the NHS have nothing to do with our ridiculous expectations of wanting to be cured of everything and live until we are 200 years old.

Nothing to do with alcoholics, drug users, time wasters and hypochondriacs abusing our A. & E. departments in hospitals.

Oh....and absolutely nothing to do with the fact that much of the bed-blocking could be alleviated if we just took some responsibility for caring after our elderly relatives.

I understand that many of us want so much...and some things could be better organised. What I can't tolerate is scumbags like HerrTubthumper who climb all over this like a rash, just because they have a political agenda.

The reasons you mention have much to do with the alleged failings, which anyone can see, though, of course, we only ever get to hear of the problems not the successes. I have only been in A&E once, and when I saw how busy they were, said to the nurse how sorry I was to add to their burden: she said_"I don't mind you being here, as you are actually ill. ." Expectations have risen and will continue to do so which will only put the system under more strain. Yes, we can pour ever more money into it, but next year will see the same old cries for more resources. Given that folk will always make their way to A&E with trivial ailments, and that expectations will rise, as will the population, it might be time to look at another system, rather than lurch continually from one crisis to another.

 

[Buzzer]

Hunt without a doubt but the most destructive and harmful agent against the NHS has always been the monstrous PFI deals made in the early to mid years of the Blair government. There should be retrospective action taken against all the PFI deals in my opinion. They were clear sleight of hand and the likes of Alan Johnson should be made to pay for his crimes.

 

[Hastings gull]

It's Hunt. And we're all screwed once we fall ill.

Does this really strike you as a sensible and well-thought post?

 

[spring hall convert]

Hunt without a doubt but the most destructive and harmful agent against the NHS has always been the monstrous PFI deals made in the early to mid years of the Blair government. There should be retrospective action taken against all the PFI deals in my opinion. They were clear sleight of hand and the likes of Alan Johnson should be made to pay for his crimes.

Not disagreeing with you about PFI as a concept but didn't George Osborne continue making new PFI deals, despite commenting on the poor value they offered the tax payer?

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Hunt without a doubt but the most destructive and harmful agent against the NHS has always been the monstrous PFI deals made in the early to mid years of the Blair government. There should be retrospective action taken against all the PFI deals in my opinion. They were clear sleight of hand and the likes of Alan Johnson should be made to pay for his crimes.

Don't disagree but the financing of PF deals is 2% of the NHS budget.

 

[Albumen]

Does this really strike you as a sensible and well-thought post?

Depends if you believe he's screwed the NHS to the point of endangering lives. Which he has. So yes.

 

[Buzzer]

Don't disagree but the financing of PF deals is 2% of the NHS budget.

This article from the Independent puts the average cost of all PFIs at nearer £10Bn a year and rising. (Presumably that includes the £3bn NHS costs but this appears to be rising too).

Basically, a PFI is like a mortgage that the government takes out on behalf of the public. The average annual cost of meeting the terms of the UK’s PFI contracts will be more than £10bn over the next decade. And the cost of servicing PFIs is growing. Last year, it rose by £5bn. It could rise further, with inflation. The upward creep is the price taxpayers’ pay for a financing system which allows private firms to profit from investing in infrastructure.

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/...als-leave-britain-222bn-in-debt-10170214.html