[Film] The Big Short - a fine telling of the financial crisis story

[Bakero]

daily? hourly?

Nope. The average amount they've earnt so far this year.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Having worked with [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION], and knowing what he still does for a living, I'm aware he has a very intimate working knowledge of the regulation of financial markets and firms that operate within it. He lives and breathes it at a level I could not imagine, nor want to deal with.

I'm not sure anyone could really make a case that the UK financial sector was adequately prepared for what unfolded. I understand why you personally would like to see the Labour government as entirely blameless but, respectfully, I think you're wrong.

Did they cause the global financial crash? Of course not.
Was their lack of governance responsible for elements of the impacts of that on the UK? Abso-bloody-lutely.

Which is all I said.

The rest is straw man because [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] makes an argument out of something I hadn't posted. Which is fine, but it is what it is.

I will add, that in my lifetime that no UK government would have regulated sufficiently to have protected us from the crash. The Tories actually tried to block Labour's inadequate attempts at regulation in opposition. They had deregulated through much of the 80s. So bascially, we were f**ked. Perhaps the only chance we had of avoiding it was if John Smith hadn't sadly died and we didn't see the birth of New Labour, and the UK elected a Labour government on a more socialist regulatory approach that didn't look to appease the centre ground. That though still seems unlikely even now.

 

[maltaseagull]

As an aside:-

The average earnings of FTSE 100 bosses will, as of today, surpass the annual remuneration of the average UK worker, emphasising extreme pay inequality in modern Britain and throwing a spotlight on how rewards for UK executives are determined.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...9-a8709966.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true

I think you may have missed some fundamental detail in your post. The article makes sense and it is morally wrong for that sort of difference in salaries. Your post doesn't make sense

 

[Bold Seagull]

Nope. The average amount they've earnt so far this year.

29 hours or 3 days.

It takes 29 hours for a FTSE 100 boss to earn the annual mean salary in the UK.

 

[Stat Brother]

I think you may have missed some fundamental detail in your post. The article makes sense and it is morally wrong for that sort of difference in salaries. Your post doesn't make sense

I've not posted anything beyond "as an aside", the rest is the Independent article.

 

[El Presidente]

Regardless of which party was in charge, the outcome would have been broadly similar.

The shysters, scumbags and snake oil salesmen in the financial services industry run rings around the regulators, and use lawyers, accountants, offshore vehicles and recruit the smartest to look after themselves and their bonuses. For every rule there's a loophole and the box ticking mentality of the rules is easy to circumnavigate.

They make a big fuss about compliance, inferring it is somehow linked to ethics, but instead lining their own pockets and those of their cronies.

The UK, with a larger financial services sector than that of most nearby economies, took a bigger hit when the music finally stopped on the pass the parcel game of toxic debt.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Regardless of which party was in charge, the outcome would have been broadly similar.

The shysters, scumbags and snake oil salesmen in the financial services industry run rings around the regulators, and use lawyers, accountants, offshore vehicles and recruit the smartest to look after themselves and their bonuses. For every rule there's a loophole and the box ticking mentality of the rules is easy to circumnavigate.

They make a big fuss about compliance, inferring it is somehow linked to ethics, but instead lining their own pockets and those of their cronies.

The UK, with a larger financial services sector than that of most nearby economies, took a bigger hit when the music finally stopped on the pass the parcel game of toxic debt.

Fair enough - but no one was complaining when all that stuff was bringing more and more GDP growth into the economy.

It absolutely got out of hand but it wasn't in anyone's interest to stop it until it was too late. The FCA would've been massively lent on by whoever was in power to not regulate too heavily - not that they had a clue what was going on anyway.....

Hindsight is a very easy thing.

 

[El Presidente]

Fair enough - but no one was complaining when all that stuff was bringing more and more GDP growth into the economy.

It absolutely got out of hand but it wasn't in anyone's interest to stop it until it was too late. The FCA would've been massively lent on by whoever was in power to not regulate too heavily - not that they had a clue what was going on anyway.....

Hindsight is a very easy thing.

Absolutely, it is a significant contributor to the Treasury, creates a secondary employment market too, but also the biggest organiser of tax avoidance in the country too and looks after itself first and last and always.

The biggest shame is that many of those working in the industry could be doing good for society in medicine, science, engineering and other industries, but instead suckle at the bosum of financial services due to the rewards on offer, which is understandable from an individual point of view but the UK as a whole suffers as a result.

 

[vegster]

Regardless of which party was in charge, the outcome would have been broadly similar.

The shysters, scumbags and snake oil salesmen in the financial services industry run rings around the regulators, and use lawyers, accountants, offshore vehicles and recruit the smartest to look after themselves and their bonuses. For every rule there's a loophole and the box ticking mentality of the rules is easy to circumnavigate.

They make a big fuss about compliance, inferring it is somehow linked to ethics, but instead lining their own pockets and those of their cronies.

The UK, with a larger financial services sector than that of most nearby economies, took a bigger hit when the music finally stopped on the pass the parcel game of toxic debt.

Indeed this. pinch £20 out of the till when you are working in the corner Co-Op and you will probably never work in a shop again, turn someone or a company over for £000's and you will probably be re-employed by a bigger company to do it again !

 

[father_and_son]

Was it the tories

Sent from my MI 6 using Tapatalk

Neither... Both...

It is the continued failure of governments to have enough clever people to understand what everyone else in the economy is actually doing.

If the SEC, FCA et al actually *understood* CDOs, they would have regulated against them. Take some debts you *know* will default, wrap them in a nice, pretty package, give them a fancy name, sell them to people who know they are toxic but also know they can sell them on. Start a merry-go-round of selling the bad debts on, freeing up your balance sheet to lend money to more people who will default, selling it on, lending more, selling it on... Then you have moronic politicians who just see the financial service sector "making money" without understanding the reality of the timebomb, positively encouraging it, reducing interest rates so more and more sub-prime loans can be made, just to keep the merry-go-round going.

Big f**k off game of pass the parcel and as long as the music keeps playing, everyone is fine. But the music stops and the whole charade collapses. Governments were not to blame for the crisis... but they were f**king complicit in their incompetence.

The Tories are supposed to know better as the party of capitalism.
Labour are the party of borrow now, pay later, so just blindly jumped on the band wagon.

Both wrong for different reasons, but both equally to blame.

 

[Justice]

It hasn’t stopped have heard on a smaller scale car finance is the new subprime lending vechicle. If we all wanted to for a couple of grand down we could all be driving Range rovers.

 

[El Presidente]

Indeed this. pinch £20 out of the till when you are working in the corner Co-Op and you will probably never work in a shop again, turn someone or a company over for £000's and you will probably be re-employed by a bigger company to do it again !

Indeed, very few have been taken to court, even fewer found guilty as the SFO is unable to take on the £1,000 an hour briefs and beancounters, and so prosecutions collapse or are culled.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Fair enough - but no one was complaining when all that stuff was bringing more and more GDP growth into the economy.

It absolutely got out of hand but it wasn't in anyone's interest to stop it until it was too late. The FCA would've been massively lent on by whoever was in power to not regulate too heavily - not that they had a clue what was going on anyway.....

Hindsight is a very easy thing.

We hadn't elected, and still haven't elected a government big on regulation etc. for nigh on half a century. New Labour was Tory-lite because no matter how bad the mismanaging of the economy through the 80s by the Tories, we were still electing them to power.

There is no doubt the government whomever that was should have regulated the financial sectors, not in hindsight, but in prudent management of greed (as [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] pointed out above) and risk, however 15 years of Thatcherism, 5 years of Major, and 10 years of Blair/Brown hadn't led this country down a path of a strict regulation agenda.

 

[El Presidente]

however 15 years of Thatcherism, 5 years of Major, and 10 years of Blair/Brown hadn't led this country down a path of a strict regulation agenda.

...unless you are incapacitated and trying to claim benefits, in which case they will take you out at the knees.

 

[Bold Seagull]

...unless you are incapacitated and trying to claim benefits, in which case they will take you out at the knees.

The film ends with it being blamed on 'immigrants and the poor'. I'm not sure people would ever do that.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Currently on Amazon Prime. Some great performances, and a reasonable telling of sub prime loans, securities, CDOs etc. Cracking film as well, an impressive cast.

If you still think Labour were responsible for the financial crash and the bank bail outs in 2008, it's probably not for you.

It's a very good film and very well explained. But Labour still had their part to play through inflation of the markets and poor financial planning. But yeh, Margot Robbie overrides everything else.

 

[wakeytom]

Didn't realise there was a film, but Michael Lewis' book is an excellent read. In fact all his books are.

Tom, we dont always see eye to eye but we certainly do on this, such a good writer

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I've had it on my 'to watch' but I appreciate I need to dedicate myself to watching the film and actually LISTENING to the talking.....which is normally my main issue.

I am the classic "Why is he doing that again?" film watcher.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

This light touch meant RBS acquired ABN AMRO without meaningful due diligence

I was working on contract at RBS at the time of the ABN AMRO acquisition. Seems to me there was minimal due diligence because RBS were engaged in a full-on willy-waving contest with Barclays over the acquisition of that toxic debt-ridden bank. All sense went out the window right there.

 

[beorhthelm]

It hasn’t stopped have heard on a smaller scale car finance is the new subprime lending vechicle. If we all wanted to for a couple of grand down we could all be driving Range rovers.

its very different as they start with a depreciating asset and known risk, so priced accordingly. the issue with CDO and swaps was/is not knowing the true risk, or who actually had the risk exposure.