The big question: Do you trust Tony Bloom and his team with the Albion?

[Bold Seagull]

Which is it guys? You don't seem in agreement. This from Naylor's report.



If he hasn't got that from Oscar then there is simply no proof of it at all. It is potentially libelous. You don't think any journalist - even our Andy - would print that without a cast iron source?

Never mind that he went on record after the Yeovil game in front of Sky Sports cameras and said that the club was the only one in The Championship to be weaker after the January transfer window.

Now here's David Burke on the official site on the same subject. At no point does he claim we are weaker. In fact he claims the Rodriguez can fill Ashley Barnes' role and that Obika is a good signing

http://www.seagulls.co.uk/news/article/burke-reflects-on-transfer-window-1332394.aspx

Why would we be in agreement you odd ball, neither is giving any hard and fast reason where as you appear to be trying to.

What do you mean if he hasn't got that from OG? Naylor could have the receptionist who overheard a conversation in the corridor as a source. I think you might need to brush up on what a libel is before you facepalm someone.

Anyway, I can fully see where you're at and what your about now.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It was a disaster this time last year.

Was it really, or was the situation the club found itself in a disaster in itself? As it turned out, we dismissed a manager who wanted to leave, who supposedly was in breach of contract, from which no court action arose, and as far as we know, no compensation paid. We then got a knew man.

PR disaster, or an incredibly difficult situation handled pretty well by the club in the end?

 

[Chris001]

Judging by a lot of the comments you do wonder if this poll was about ...erm sorry Burke then the result might be a tad different

Wouldn't change anything for me.

I believe Tony's vision is a great one for our club and the decisions made by the management are in alignment to his vision.

Burke's job is a very difficult one, you can't measure him by the individual success of each signing and it's really not important. You can only measure his effectiveness at the end of each season. Based on the last two seasons, he's doing a good job.

 

[El Presidente]

Small details and not important - see the bigger picture

Which is.......?

 

[Everest]

Bloom yes, Barber yes, Burke no

This

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I don’t think anyone who was ever been to the AMEX can not trust Tony – It’s built on his money which we aren’t paying back yet along with the training facility. Clearly long term foundations for the club couldn’t be better and you only need to open your eyes to realise we are in good hands

Like everything though, things can be improved. From my perspective

We need to get better at selling the place to new players, the Grabban debacle highlights that the process wasn’t great and not helped by Bloom being in Australia either. This is where we miss Poyet. He was clearly good at this bit, Mackail Smith being the prime example.

The whole process of player recruitment needs to be reviewed. Obika and Rodriguez were dreadful. To counter that, Ward and Stephens were successful but how the decisions were arrived at is not quite clear. I understand the whole Director of Football strategy in that the style of the club stays the same if the manager doesn’t but equally the manager must be able to mould his own team if he is ultimately going to be responsible for success or failure. From the outside it appears that there were few, if any, signings that look like they were influenced by Oscar which caused some of his frustrations. I sense that Poyet had too much sway in this area. Oscar probably paid for that and didn’t have enough – We need to find the right balance. It’s a struggle to argue we had that right this year.

The atmosphere at Derby was deafening at times. Derby fans engaged with the club earlier last year to gauge their thoughts as to how things could be improved resulting in moving the away fans to where we were. Granted the occasion and spanking us helped immensely and I’ve been to Derby when it has been dead but there is a togetherness there that I didn’t sense at the AMEX game. I’d like to see more engagement with fans by the club rather than endless e-mail spam (and twitter updates on the womens team FFS) and bland statements of the obvious that tell us nothing.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Has he gone on record? I don't think they have interviewed him, their inferences are from OG's open letter and the clubs statement. Unless you can show me otherwise? Perhaps he hasn't had an offer from Spain yet. In fact, I've posted several times on different threads that where OG surfaces next will be a better indication of his reason for leaving than baseless conjecture.

Why would we be in agreement you odd ball, neither is giving any hard and fast reason where as you appear to be trying to.

What do you mean if he hasn't got that from OG? Naylor could have the receptionist who overheard a conversation in the corridor as a source. I think you might need to brush up on what a libel is before you facepalm someone.

I know perfectly well what libel means and the definition includes "publication need only be to one person, but it must be a statement which claims to be fact, and is not clearly identified as an opinion." Where does Naylor say his piece is an opinion? He presents that Oscar gave a list of targets, none of which was achieved and that cracks started to appear after Ulloa's injury as fact. Have you got any proof this is untrue?

Anyway, I can fully see where you're at and what your about now.

Really? What's that then? If you read my original post you will see that it is supportive not only of what Tony Bloom has achieved but also of the long term vision and budget constraints which we HAVE to have to make the club viable. That doesn't mean that he and his team are beyond criticism. This season IN MY OPINION we have missed out on some good players and signed some donkeys. This year AS AN ESTABLISHED FACT we have lost the person in charge of the first team at the end of each of the football seasons. As I posted in here yesterday if that happened in another business then someone would have some explaining to do.

 

[Silverhatch]

Yes in Bloom we trust

But someone needs to answer question's why A very good manager and coach wanted to leave even before a ball was kicked in the playoff's and did this have a big part in the performance's.

Because the two people that left are calculating professionals who have spent their entire footballing careers in the top echelons of football. Both realised that neither of them would get their guarantee of Top Level football with our club and both (probably) thought that they would miss the play offs (the chairman's stated aim) when they started to 'plan' to leave. Poyet got to the POs but was out-thought, out fought and out-gunned by Holloway/Palace and their £15m Manchester United player and this probably justified his own decision to bale out, and Garcia didn't expect to reach the POs and probably knew the team would come up short when they did (and they did) thereby justifying his own decision to bale out. Who really knows - but I'm sure this is how these sort of football men and their representatives think about the game.

 

[Bold Seagull]

This, absolutely this!

I will always have deep affection for Tony Bloom, how could I not. The money he has pumped into the stadium and academy is beyond my wildest dreams, but that doesn't mean I will always, automatically agree with every single decision he subsequently makes. It also doesn't automatically make him a success at running the club on a day to day basis. there have been rich men walk into football clubs before, pumping cash in and making a right dogs dinner of it. I'm not saying he's anywhere close to a Mark Goldberg, but there is more to running a club than just writing cheques.

The key is learning from the mistakes, and the phrase from barber yesterday that despite the change of job title for the new guy, the roles and responsibilities remain the same, worries me somewhat. Those "roles and responsibilities" have not been popular with the last 2 managers, and maybe that should be a sign that a rethink is necessary. We've known of Oscar issues for a while, and we appear to think the problem is him, and not the role.

I just hope the next guy gets the full story from the off, and doesn't reach October thinking that the level of player recruitment is below the expectations he left his interview with.

Word has it that as soon as the GP issue was sorted, OG was immediately told they can change his job title back to 'first team manager' (not given to him in the first instance for legal reasons obviously), but OG refused and was happy to remain as 'head coach'. His roles and responsibilities were effectively still the same.

The statement of role title is probably because this has caused so much confusion amoung fans, and continues to do so who have 'deduced' that must mean 'head coach', and must mean all signings are the sole responsibility of DB.

At this point we have no idea whether OG was unhappy with his role or not, or whether there are completely different factors such as wanting to go back to Spain, not liking the overall quality of the Championship, not happy with our budget.

Again, to say that our last two managers have not been happy with their roles and responsibilities is just conjecture. GP and OG may have been both perfectly comfortable with these roles and responsibilities, but had completely separate reasons for being unhappy. The level of budget for one is just something any manager is going to have to live with at any club - even Mancini had the audacity to complain about City's budget!

I agree with you about hoping the new guy has the full story from the off, and a clear picture of how the club operates. That said, I have absolutely no reason to believe OG didn't have this when he started either. When things start to go wrong, managers will tend to protect themselves as well as their players in their statements.

 

[Miffy]

I trust Bloom while recognising that he still has a lot to learn. The Amex has been a double edged sword - it's great to have it but taking the leap from where we were has thrown up unforeseen challenges. Players, managers, staff and to some degree supporters, all have expectations that it brings with it. Long serving ones feel aggrieved at losing some of the old closeness and involvement and new ones see the structure and assume that everything that normally goes with that is there too without any understanding of what it took to get there. I don't envy him trying to manage the disconnect it creates but the difference between how this manager relationship worked/ended and the last one tells me he's learnt from that experience and I trust he'll continue to do so. But it'll take a while yet and I expect further mistakes on the way.

Most succesful people in football, are fairly confident in their abilities, so its unlikley that he stood back and thought 'I'm not up to the challenge' - more that 'if I fail to build on these last two years, it will look bad on my CV / damage my stock'. Other managers will relish the challenge / opportunity.

Personally, I still think he'll be in a job in Spain by the end of the summer, topping up his tan and adding an easier couple of bullet points to his CV.

This .. Wouldn't take risks on the pitch and looks like he's not keen on taking them off it either. Its a shame on both counts.

 

[Acker79]

Have to disagree with this.
Ince, March, JFC to name a few of our youngsters who have come through the DS. I believe we have benefited from the youth this season.

Firstly, It is a stretch to include Ince. He signed in February, hardly someone we've shaped and molded and can claim as our own product. JFC has been making first team appearances since the 2009/10 season and still is only used when the manager has no other option he can/is willing to use (and if we're honest, I doubt Ince or march would have got a chance without e injuries we had early this season, chances that they grabbed), and he was roundly slaughtered when the pressure was on. He's not awful, but he isn't going to make the team better. March has potential, but imagine how much better he would be if the last five years of his development took place at a training academy like we have planned at lancing.

Secondly, I should clarify, I didn't mean just bringing youth through, I meant bringing the sort of quality of youth through that southampton's academy brought through. Bring through players who, thanks to a great academy, will improve the squad directly, or who can be sold for a great profit to invest in the team. That is what will take time.

 

[Chris001]

Which is.......?

The bigger picture is we are currently an established 2nd tier football club, we are one that competes and we are one that is building an infrastructure that will sustain a high standard of football within Brighton and Hove - and hopefully all the money and hard work will eventually help us make the step up to the top flight.

Individual performances are not important and impossible to predict, the continuation of the first paragraph is.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I know perfectly well what libel means and the definition includes "publication need only be to one person, but it must be a statement which claims to be fact, and is not clearly identified as an opinion." Where does Naylor say his piece is an opinion? He presents that Oscar gave a list of targets, none of which was achieved and that cracks started to appear after Ulloa's injury as fact. Have you got any proof this is untrue?



Really? What's that then? If you read my original post you will see that it is supportive not only of what Tony Bloom has achieved but also of the long term vision and budget constraints which we HAVE to have to make the club viable. That doesn't mean that he and his team are beyond criticism. This season IN MY OPINION we have missed out on some good players and signed some donkeys. This year AS AN ESTABLISHED FACT we have lost the person in charge of the first team at the end of the season. As I posted in here yesterday if that happened in another business then someone would have some explaining to do.

Libel is a defamation and must be proved to have caused harm. Quite how you consider the risk of Naylor printing OG gave his targets but didn't get them as being a libel is beyond me. There is nothing to suggest anything other than Naylor taking a few soundbites here and there and coming to that conclusion. You've taken it as hard fact direct from OG to Naylor.

What your about is taking your opinion beyond what you could reasonably know, and making inferences and conclusions that serve no other purpose than to spread disinformation about what is going on.

I'm not surprised we don't hear more when the roles of the likes of David Burke, Nathan Jones, Barber, in fact whoever in the club, are so twisted up by individuals on forums and writing blogs that they face a constant PR battle simply communicating again and again what happens within the club. Does anyone listen? No. Countless interviews with TB, PB, DB etc. explaining our recruitment policy, the role and responsibility of the manager, the budget constraints, and yet people still choose not to believe them and write what they write.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

It's a YES from me.

 

[London Irish]

I came home from work last night and told my two kids that Tim Sherwood had been fired by Spurs, showed them the funny pic the Evening Standard had printed of him, and said he might possibly become our new manager. My 11-year-old replied who had fired him, and I said the owners. She then said "who can fire the owners?"

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Can anyone, sensibly, answer anything other than yes? At least to the TB part of the question. Saved us, raised us and sunk around 150 million in? I would need cast iron evidence of serious wrongdoing before thinking about questioning the mans integrity.

It's not a case of serious wrong-doing. More a case of under his stewardship he has recruuited two managers who have both left. He chose to employ both these managers. Maybe his judgement is a bit suspect?

 

[LamieRobertson]

It's not a case of serious wrong-doing. More a case of under his stewardship he has recruuited two managers who have both left. He chose to employ both these managers. Maybe his judgement is a bit suspect?

But then one of those managers gained one promotion...almost another and stayed a relatively long time in football years..perhaps you are more leaning towards 2 leaving in the space of a year

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The atmosphere at Derby was deafening at times. Derby fans engaged with the club earlier last year to gauge their thoughts as to how things could be improved resulting in moving the away fans to where we were. Granted the occasion and spanking us helped immensely and I’ve been to Derby when it has been dead but there is a togetherness there that I didn’t sense at the AMEX game. I’d like to see more engagement with fans by the club rather than endless e-mail spam (and twitter updates on the womens team FFS) and bland statements of the obvious that tell us nothing.

Interesting point as I felt the same at Derby. Sadly I have to say Barber is largely instrumental in the way the club 'feels' and is perceived. I appreciate he has a job to do but his personality and approach to the task does not help him in my opinion.

 

[Notters]

Bloom yes, Barber yes, Burke no

This makes no sense to me. If you trust Bloom then you have to trust the others implicitly, otherwise Bloom would get rid of them. It's a big yes from me.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Libel is a defamation and must be proved to have caused harm. Quite how you consider the risk of Naylor printing OG gave his targets but didn't get them as being a libel is beyond me. There is nothing to suggest anything other than Naylor taking a few soundbites here and there and coming to that conclusion. You've taken it as hard fact direct from OG to Naylor.

I may have missed it in the last couple of days but there wasn't a lot of this around on the thread actually discussing the Naylor article. It was a very long thread and I was actually working properly yesterday. I stand by the fact that he has to have a source that's told him that - it's not an opinion piece. However I am prepared to accept that it is not the whole story by any means because someone I respect and trust has subsequently told me it isn't.

What your about is taking your opinion beyond what you could reasonably know, and making inferences and conclusions that serve no other purpose than to spread disinformation about what is going on.

No I'm having a discussion on a message board (which is its purpose after all) based on a published article by an actual journalist in an accredited newspaper.

I'm not surprised we don't hear more when the roles of the likes of David Burke, Nathan Jones, Barber, in fact whoever in the club, are so twisted up by individuals on forums and writing blogs that they face a constant PR battle simply communicating again and again what happens within the club. Does anyone listen? No. Countless interviews with TB, PB, DB etc. explaining our recruitment policy, the role and responsibility of the manager, the budget constraints, and yet people still choose not to believe them and write what they write.

Well I'll quote you a little extract from something I wrote before the Naylor article hit:

But whose fault is this? The failure to land Lewis Grabban in January could be traced to that player’s greed, Bloom and Barber being overly parsimonious or Oscar not being able to guarantee a start, what with us only playing one up front. If it was the first there is not much that can be done. If it was the second I would be intrigued. Yes we have to hit FFP. Yes we cannot go under. However we had just received a club record fee for Bridcutt and it’s clear from the out of contract list that the budget is going to need to be rebalanced in the summer come what may. Do we have our priorities exactly right? If it is the third, though, Oscar only has himself to blame.

The Naylor article portrays Oscar as the victim. This may very well not be the case (indeed the information I just read suggests it isn't). However - you cannot just un-invent message boards, blogs, twitter and the like. There is always going to be discussion - that's what we're doing now. My opinions on this thread are purely my opinions and that's it. If I were the club I would have issued a denial of that article.

I appreciate the time that Tony Bloom and his staff take attending fans' forums. I understand that Paul Barber will reply to every email he gets even if it's 10 at night and he considers the sender a complete Dodo. That's not the issue or what I'm pointing to. The simple issue is that we have lost another manager / first team coach and that an accredited article has appeared in the local newspaper suggesting that the reasons for it are largely related to player recruitment. I appreciate this may not be the full picture but it requires discussion. This ain't North Korea.