Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
double post
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The Badger Cull - It is WRONG
- Thread starter Uncle Spielberg
- Start date
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
That isn't the question as has been pointed out. Defra should be continuing to work on vaccines for cattle rather than dubiously wiping out badgers who may or may not spread disease.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,015
well the farmers have been studying the matter for hundreds of years. some scientitst dont seem to be able to prove there is no link while others cant prove there isnt enough of a link to make this an obvious course of action. in between you have a bunch of people who know nothing about the matter deciding based on their natural instinct rather than either (inconclusive) side of the debate.
then you have the farmers, who have spent an awful lot of time over the years doing their utmost to get rid of badgers. some are saying against the cull that farmers don't do anything not in their interests. when you consider thier efforsts against badgers, you should wonder if therefore there is a very strong link between badgers and TB.
cliveh27
New member
Just pointing out that "knowing" a farmer, doesn't necessarily mean that you know and understand some of the problems that farmers face.
Absolutely nothing to suggest the cull should be carried out, and that it would have any affect whatsoever.
Completely against it from all I've read and seen.
No one on this thread has come up with anything to suggest otherwise, just keep pretending it will fix things, when it won't make one iota of difference.
Yes there needs to be a solution, but this most certainly isn't it.
Completely against it from all I've read and seen.
No one on this thread has come up with anything to suggest otherwise, just keep pretending it will fix things, when it won't make one iota of difference.
Yes there needs to be a solution, but this most certainly isn't it.
Uncle Spielberg
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #66
AGAIN. Where is your evidence ?! I am here to be convinced but so far the people in support of this have offered absolutely nothing but words.
cliveh27
New member
Badgers carry TB - fact
Badgers transmit TB to cattle - fact
If the number of badgers increase (which it is, as they have no natural predator), then TB will be transmitted to more cattle - logical conclusion.
Uncle Spielberg
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #68
Ok then I am convinced.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Where is the link to your 'fact'?
This is from the RSPCA website.
Key facts
• The cull could see badger populations decline by more than 70% and in some areas none may survive
• Culling cannot be selective so many perfectly healthy badgers will be slaughtered as ‘collateral damage’
• 100,000 recorded objections to a badger cull in England
• After 10 years work the Independent Scientific Group concluded in 2007 that ‘badger culling can make no meaningful contribution to cattle TB control in Britain.’
• Subsequent monitoring of cull areas indicated a very modest drop in cattle TB levels averaging just 16% after nine and half years!
• Defra‘s own wildlife advisory body, Natural England, who have to implement the government proposals, have said that they have little confidence in them delivering the predicted benefits.
skipper734
Registered ruffian
Fixed it for you. Fact. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable experiments
Lord Bracknell
On fire
Some of the numbers in this thread are ridiculously overstated. The Badger Trust (who are against the cull) estimated in evidence given to the Appeal Court that 10,000 badgers would die each year for the next four years, if the cull went ahead. Meanwhile, 26,000 cattle were slaughtered last year, as a result of bovine TB.
If it's animal welfare that concerns people, the cattle are the ones that deserve our sympathy and protection.
And I like badgers, btw.
If it's animal welfare that concerns people, the cattle are the ones that deserve our sympathy and protection.
And I like badgers, btw.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The best way to deal with bovine TB is vaccination but a lot of farmers don't want the expense.
cliveh27
New member
Unfortunately you fixed it incorrectly.
cliveh27
New member
If there were a vaccination, they would welcome it. It would be far simpler.
Having read the arguments on both sides , and watched Countryfile last night - where Badgers were trapped and vaccinated - one very obvious question has to be asked - WHY ARENT THE CATTLE VACCINATED ?
is there a problem with selling milk that has been 'encouraged' by hormones - but unsaleable if TB inoculated ?
is there a problem with selling milk that has been 'encouraged' by hormones - but unsaleable if TB inoculated ?
skipper734
Registered ruffian
If you say so. Which bit was that then?
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Mutts Nuts
New member
- Oct 30, 2011
- 4,918
I respect your opinion U S as we are all entitled to one , not that you would think so when you read some of the bullying posts on here.But i don`t hear many people complaining about the tens of thousands of foxes stoats and weasels culled every year to prevent them killing gamebirds, which have been bread to be shot in vast numbers by the idle rich.Neither does anyone complain about the hundreds of thousands of rabbits and pigeons culled each year to protect crops.
These culls are necesary because of all of us and our children,there are too many of us on this planet eventualy we will be the only species left , depressing thought isnt it
These culls are necesary because of all of us and our children,there are too many of us on this planet eventualy we will be the only species left , depressing thought isnt it
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Uncle Spielberg
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #79
From NSC's BELOVED Guardian newspaper which NEVER mispresents the facts. 70000 - 105000 to be killed.
The government is poised to give the go-ahead to the first full-scale cull of badgers in England, under a policy that could soon mean as many as 100,000 of the animals – a third of the national population – are shot dead by farmers in an attempt to protect cattle from bovine tuberculosis.
According to Whitehall sources, the first of two licences is expected to be issued as soon as Monday for a large pilot cull area in Gloucestershire, which is a hotspot for bovine TB.
Previously, there have been localised trials to test the science behind such culls. Yet despite the mixed results of the tests, ministers have decided to push ahead with the national scheme after winning an appeal-court battle brought by campaigners last week.
In 2011, 26,000 cows were slaughtered because of the disease, which can also be carried by badgers.
A decade-long scientific trial of badger culling concluded that such killing could make "no meaningful contribution", and was "not an effective way" to control the disease. But the government is going forward with the plan under intense pressure from British farmers.
A Defra spokesman said: "We will continue to work with the farming industry so badger control in two pilot areas can start as soon as is practical."
As yet, no badgers have been killed as part of the cull, but with only straightforward administrative steps required after the granting of the licence, culling could begin within days.
Owen Paterson, the environment secretary, is a fervent supporter of the cull, having tabled a record 600 parliamentary questions on the issue while serving as environment spokesman in opposition.
In an interview with the Farmers Guardian on Friday, Patterson appeared to cast the proposed cull as being of benefit to badgers: "I find the attitude of those who want these wonderful animals to die of this disgusting disease [bovine TB] completely incomprehensible."
But Mary Creagh, the shadow environment secretary, said: "The cull will cost more than it saves, put a huge strain on the police, and will spread bovine TB in the short term as badgers are disturbed by the shooting. Ministers should listen to the scientists and can this cull – which is bad for farmers, bad for taxpayers and bad for wildlife."
A source in Paterson's department said the controversial policy was causing great anxiety: "The panic among senior officials outweighs anything since foot and mouth. It makes The Thick of It look tame and gentle."
The government has refused to release numerous documents under freedom of information rules, including advice from the government's chief scientific adviser, Sir John Beddington, and communication with the National Farmers Union. The latter was blocked on the grounds that it was "internal communication".
Natural England, the licensing body, said: "We are working flat out with licence applicants on processing their applications. We will issue licences to enable control activity to commence in the pilot areas as soon as is possible."
The licence will be issued to a group of farmers and landowners who will commit to killing at least 70% of the badgers on their land for at least four years in a row.
The government's own impact assessment concluded that it would cost farmers more to carry out the cull than to do nothing and suffer any losses from bovine TB.
The licence area must also have "hard boundaries", such as rivers, to prevent badgers fleeing and potentially spreading the disease and making the situation worse.
The government pointed to the 16% cut in bovine TB found at the end of the 10-year trial but the new culls will use a different killing method. Instead of trapping then shooting – considered expensive – the badgers will be "free shot" by marksmen. The deaths have to occur before 1 February, when the close season for badger shooting begins and runs till 31 May.
But the start of the cull could be halted by a legal challenge to the licence. The Badger Trust, which unsuccessfully challenged the government's cull policy in the appeal court last week, stated: "We will continue to pursue all legal means to stop culling. We will closely study any licences issued by Natural England." The trust was successful in a previous legal action against badger culling in Wales. Campaigners are also pursuing a complaint against the government in Europe under the Bern convention, which governs wildlife and habitat protection.
A licence for a cull in Somerset is thought to be taking longer to process due to a legal issue involving the crown estate, but sources said they did not expect that to prevent the licence being granted in due course.
Animal rights campaigners are determined to halt the trials through protests at the cull sites, whose location is not being made public. Volunteers plan to patrol the zones and stop the badgers coming into the open.
The Gloucestershire and Somerset culls are trials meant to test whether free shooting is as effective as trapping and shooting.
Critics say the short time of the trials will be insufficient for comparison with the decade-long trial, but if the government calls the trials a success, killing will happen across affected areas in England and is expected to end the lives of ** 70,000 to 105,000 ** badgers – from an entire UK population estimated at 300,000.
A badger vaccination plan is replacing the Welsh cull. Vaccination is also being tested in Devon by the National Trust, and by the Wildlife Trust in Gloucestershire.
The last Labour government said an oral badger vaccine would be ready by 2015. The coalition cancelled five of six trials of injectable vaccines, and said a viable oral vaccine was "years away".
Monkey Man
Your support is not that great
Well here's my prediction.
The cull will be patchy, enforcement even more so. In many areas there will be unofficial unlicensed shooting by landowners, leading to widespread displacement of badgers to areas previously unaffected by TB. Lots of healthy badgers will be killed and maimed. In some areas they may disappear altogether, numbers will crash in other areas and possibly recover in the years or decades to come.
Bovine TB, meanwhile, will continue to be a problem, and after the badger cull is finally acknowledged by all concerned as an utter shambles, someone in DEFRA will come up with a vaccination programme which actually addresses the problem.
We shall see.
The cull will be patchy, enforcement even more so. In many areas there will be unofficial unlicensed shooting by landowners, leading to widespread displacement of badgers to areas previously unaffected by TB. Lots of healthy badgers will be killed and maimed. In some areas they may disappear altogether, numbers will crash in other areas and possibly recover in the years or decades to come.
Bovine TB, meanwhile, will continue to be a problem, and after the badger cull is finally acknowledged by all concerned as an utter shambles, someone in DEFRA will come up with a vaccination programme which actually addresses the problem.
We shall see.