[Albion] the "assistance" priority train ramp post-match

[Gazwag]

A problem with the east bound platform ramp, is that there are multiple entry points to the disabled lane. Wristbands are only part of the solution. There should be a completely separate route for fans with disabilities and their helpers, with a single controlled point of entry. Everyone else should be able to use both sides of the ramp, thereby reducing the queue length and providing more shelter from the rain.

A couple of times there have been no stewards at all and the free for all proved it takes much longer when both lanes are used for everybody as it creates a massive bottle neck at the bottom and is therefore slower overall.

 

[drew]

Disabled ppl do struggle in other situations yes and I can only hope we all show tolerance and understanding in these situations but that doesnt invalidate the need for the ramp. Secondly who am I you or anyone else to determine who came and leaves in a group, what if its adult Mum disabled and able Dad and 3 kids? Or do we set the limit at 4? 5? but what if one of these is age say 15 or 16 do they separate and go down the other pathway FFS - just let the Stewards do their job as Ive said im sure they have got the message some people (a relative very small number) maybe shouldnt be using the ramp. I say maybe as who am i to judge them!

Read my post. I said two adults and any children.

 

[drew]

NOBODY here is saying 20 ’odd people marching’ down the ramp for ‘ one disability’ isn’t very possibly a piss take - I didn’t see that myself personally but even if I had, am certainly not going to start laying down the law on the use of the ramp or shouting at people when it is not in my authority to do so or make suggestions that make it harder for genuinely physically disabled people to use the ramp. People should speak to the stewards if they are unhappy about something, that’s all I can say - personally I would probably not get involved or, as I did today, speak directly to the Club about it..

And - Yes, people using the ramp should be doing so because they can’t literally can’t manage the steps IMO but many people get wristbands because they have mental heath conditions - having a wrist band coincidentally allows them to use the ramp but it DOES NOT ENTITLE SOMEONE WEARING IT TO JUMP THE QUEUE only to use the ramp if they have a medical condition that makes it too difficult or dangerous to use the steps. - again, that is down to the stewards discretion.

I would be interested to know if these were Brighton fans or away fans that people here are seeing jumping the queue?

I agree that people should speak to the club or the stewards. For me it's not really an issue as we tend to stay behind for a drink and let the crowds die down at the station however if the weather is crap then people queuing and getting soaked are going to get frustrated if they see a large number going through.

 

[Cotton Socks]

Disabled ppl do struggle in other situations yes and I can only hope we all show tolerance and understanding in these situations but that doesnt invalidate the need for the ramp. Secondly who am I you or anyone else to determine who came and leaves in a group, what if its adult Mum disabled and able Dad and 3 kids? Or do we set the limit at 4? 5? but what if one of these is age say 15 or 16 do they separate and go down the other pathway FFS - just let the Stewards do their job as Ive said im sure they have got the message some people (a relative very small number) maybe shouldnt be using the ramp. I say maybe as who am i to judge them!

Be realistic, is anyone going to tell the eldest of 4 kids in a family of 6 to go on his/her own because they're 15/16? That shouldn't (and won't) happen. 5 (quite clearly adults) with one kid between them could probably manage to go their separate ways. Yes, we could get into a deep conversation about blended families, housing situations where everyone lives together etc but it's pointless as you simply can not cater perfectly for everyone!
Regarding the use of the ramp for people with 'certain' mental health conditions, yes that should be allowed. Another argument regarding which ones qualify is pointless as I don't know. I do know that people can take being in a stadium of 30k+ & feel fine, but if you shove them in a tightly compacted queue then that's a different matter. The friend that I bribe to go to the Amex with beer, would not go on a packed train with me to Wembley no matter how much beer I fed them. There's a difference between the queue and the train as well. The train is a couple of stops, you can be squeezed in the queue for ages.
The club go above and beyond to make it accessible for everyone (as much as they can), but I think most of us agree that there should be limits on the amount of people a person needs to assist them. Non disabled groups of families & friends wait in a queue and get split up if the train is to full etc. Us disabled people who are asking for accessibility arrangements are very grateful that they are provided, we want our lives to be as easy for us as it is for those without disabilities. 'Equal rights' and all that but the point is (in my view) 'equal'.
I should not have the right to stop my group being split up because 'I've' got a disability, when there are others on the platform having their group split up because they 'don't' have a disability. Equal rights should mean equal. No one wants to be split up from their group of friends/family or whatever when you're on a day/night out. Just because you have a disability doesn't mean you should be able to take your whole group with you. Why should my group of friends be allowed the quick route to the train (as my 5+ assistants) when there are other people standing in the pissing hard rain waiting for the train?
Apologies @mile oak, because I've quoted you it sounds like my entire reply is aimed at you, it's not, it's late & I can't be bothered to multi quote.

 

[dazzer6666]

A couple of times there have been no stewards at all and the free for all proved it takes much longer when both lanes are used for everybody as it creates a massive bottle neck at the bottom and is therefore slower overall.

Would be better if anyone needing assistance/disabled etc could avoid the ramp and go straight to the gate, and the two lanes in the ramp were split ‘Lewes only’ and ‘other stations’ perhaps……..would stop those clogging up the platform waiting for East Coast trains making the Lewes only trains leave half empty

 

[Gazwag]

Would be better if anyone needing assistance/disabled etc could avoid the ramp and go straight to the gate, and the two lanes in the ramp were split ‘Lewes only’ and ‘other stations’ perhaps……..would stop those clogging up the platform waiting for East Coast trains making the Lewes only trains leave half empty

That would mean using the stairs though for the disabled

I don't think a split would work as people would just go in the shortest lane

I've said it so many times all problems would be pretty much solved if everybody got on the first train that arrived

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Would be better if anyone needing assistance/disabled etc could avoid the ramp and go straight to the gate, and the two lanes in the ramp were split ‘Lewes only’ and ‘other stations’ perhaps……..would stop those clogging up the platform waiting for East Coast trains making the Lewes only trains leave half empty

Not the best split, I'd suggest, seeing as how all the trains go to Lewes anyway. A split into 'Eastbourne' and 'Seaford' lanes might be worth a trial though

 

[Quinney]

That would mean using the stairs though for the disabled

I don't think a split would work as people would just go in the shortest lane

I've said it so many times all problems would be pretty much solved if everybody got on the first train that arrived

The Eastbourne train left 70% full the other day. No one was standing and there were loads of empty seats visible from the ramp. If the club stewards (apparently they are in charge) simply reassessed once initial crowd are on board then it would take a minute to simply let another load on to fill up the train. When you see how wedged carriages are leaving Lewes on the way to the match then there can be no reason why more can’t be onboard going the other way.

 

[dazzer6666]

Not the best split, I'd suggest, seeing as how all the trains go to Lewes anyway. A split into 'Eastbourne' and 'Seaford' lanes might be worth a trial though

Main problem though is people going on to the platform for either Seaford or Eastbourne trains and waiting for them rather than going to Lewes first, leaving tons wanting Lewes watching half-empty trains depart. Which queue would Lewes-only people join ?

 

[Zeberdi]

That would mean using the stairs though for the disabled

I don't think a split would work as people would just go in the shortest lane

I've said it so many times all problems would be pretty much solved if everybody got on the first train that arrived

And not everyone using the ramp is actually going to the station - you definitely need an exit that doesn’t involve everyone in a w/c or on crutches having to walk through crowded platforms to exit the stadium.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

And - Yes, people using the ramp should be doing so because they can’t literally can’t manage the steps IMO but many people get wristbands because they have mental heath conditions - having a wrist band coincidentally allows them to use the ramp but it DOES NOT ENTITLE SOMEONE WEARING IT TO JUMP THE QUEUE only to use the ramp if they have a medical condition that makes it too difficult or dangerous to use the steps. - again, that is down to the stewards discretion.

Everyone uses the ramp after the game to access the Eastbound platform. There is no access to the station via the steps. There are two queues after the game one side for most people and then the priority/fast track queue for people with disabilities that prevent them from standing in long queues etc to enable them to access the train quicker. That side is also used by people with disabilities who need to get across to Sussex Uni car parks via the underpass.

That priority queue is designed to enable people with disabilities to reduce queuing times so by default they are jumping the queue but I don’t think anyone has any problem with people who have genuine need to use that queue from getting on a train quicker.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

Tbh I’m slightly confused about the layout that everyone is talking about actually around the station, I thought we were talking about the access ramp that is for disabled people to use, that some able-bodied fans are using to jump the queue - the one that people are complaining about? (A plan of the site would be helpful to understand some of the suggestions). I’m not that familiar with it the layout around the station thb - If I use the ramp down from the top of the bridge, I go down to the front of the station main entrance and where the foot of the main steps are because I don’t use the station - I’ll have to make more of a mental note of it on Thursday. I‘ve only used to Falmer Station a few times for the football in the past - I used to use the Park and ride buses tbh. (I used the Falmer stn often to get to Uni but that was nearly 30 years ago and I vaguely just remember a small narrow footbridge over the track to access the Westbound track from the front of the Station and using the tunnel under the road to get to campus.)

I've tried to grab an image from Google Maps of the ramp, it's ringed in red. Everyone wishing to get a train to Lewes and beyond will queue on this ramp after the game. The ramp is split in two and one side is used by the vast majority of people, the other side kept clear for people with disabilities to either get to the platform quicker, or like yourself to use a step-less route to the Uni car parks. No-one using the steps (which are just to the right of the red ringed area in the image is able to access the station as the front of the station is closed off after the game. Everyone queuing on the ramp will use an access gate which is basically hidden in the image by the wider bridge across the tracks to access the platform.

 

[Zeberdi]

Thanks - that’s really helpful - the missing link - I didn’t know the front access to the station was closed off after the game as there always seems to be a fair number of fans hanging around there after the match so not something I’ve clocked. If thousands of people are using one side of the ramp and a single access gate to the platform though, no wonder there’s major congestion points - Looks like they need to stagger/filter the fans entering onto the ramp in the first place and thus onto the platform depending on the next train due so the system’s not getting backed up with fans who don’t the next train because they don’t want to change at Lewes etc. Maybe open the disabled access side of the ramp for a limited number of abled-bodied fans for 5 minutes periodically just prior to the train being due, to filter through those that want the next train due in? And have a high traffic light when the ramp is closed for those minutes so disabled people can sit on benches (with a shelter) on the outside concourse while the ramp light is red. It wouldn’t bother me waiting for 5 minutes for the ramp to clear as long as there was a shelter and seat. Closer cooperation between the Club and Station staff and Train companies is required really if anything is going to be realistically improved though..the key it would seem, would be to stop people entering the ramp areas in the first place who don’t want the next train and live communication with train staff when enough have come through - ie using a better filtering system on the concourse, rather than having the platforms and ramps so congested.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Plenty of scope for adding some useful high visibility train info on the approach to the train queues. The first time most people get any useful info is when they're actually on the platform. Which is of limited use to anybody.

If I was going Eastbound I'd want to know where the next train was going, when it was expected and how many carriages it would be. I'd also lob in some generalised 'Please take the first available train and change at Lewes' for the hard of thinking. Could even go for gold and give some estimated queueing times.

If I was going Westbound I'd essentially want to know I'm not going to be stuck in a scrum for 20 minutes for some shitty little three carriage cattle truck. Would far rather take my chance in a bus queue

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

Thanks - that’s really helpful - the missing link - I didn’t know the front access to the station was closed off after the game as there always seems to be a fair number of fans hanging around there after the match so not something I’ve clocked. If thousands of people are using one side of the ramp and a single access gate to the platform though, no wonder there’s major congestion points - Looks like they need to stagger/filter the fans entering onto the ramp in the first place and thus onto the platform depending on the next train due so the system’s not getting backed up with fans who don’t the next train because they don’t want to change at Lewes etc. Maybe open the disabled access side of the ramp for a limited number of abled-bodied fans for 5 minutes periodically just prior to the train being due, to filter through those that want the next train due in? And have a high traffic light when the ramp is closed for those minutes so disabled people can sit on benches (with a shelter) on the outside concourse while the ramp light is red. It wouldn’t bother me waiting for 5 minutes for the ramp to clear as long as there was a shelter and seat. Closer cooperation between the Club and Station staff and Train companies is required really if anything is going to be realistically improved though..the key it would seem, would be to stop people entering the ramp areas in the first place who don’t want the next train and live communication with train staff when enough have come through - ie using a better filtering system on the concourse, rather than having the platforms and ramps so congested.

There is absolutely no-where else for the fans to wait other than on the ramp. Stopping access to the ramp down to the station would create a bottleneck on the bridge across and on to the ramp up from the stadium side, which already gets quite congested as it is. The entrance gate onto the station while not the biggest isn't actually too bad, fans tend to filter through that quite well as the priority side and the main queue are let on to the platform together. There is always going to be pinch points when trying to get that many people moving after a game, people need to show a bit of common sense and those who are too stubborn to just get the first train to arrive and change at Lewes if necessary need to have a word with themselves. It would be a whole lot easier if they just got on the train rather than waiting as they are part of the reason trains aren't leaving at capacity and thus reducing the number of people on the ramp who can then get on the platform for the next train.