[Albion] the "assistance" priority train ramp post-match

[The Grockle]

It's an issue that has no solution really, no minimum wage staff member is going to challenge anyone.


After the AEK home match a group of 5 jumped the queue because their mate was on crutches. Kind of felt like they were abusing the system a little but what can you do in reality.

 

[Zeberdi]

The post above is the original post. So you think it's fine for a group of 20 to go through because one of them has a hidden disability?

Of course not but I wasn’t responding to that - I was responding to some of the suggestions (and assumptions )
that were being suggested

but those who do have disabilities that should let them skip the queue will also probably have a pa with them

Including presumption above - it is not about ‘skipping queues but creating ways disabled people like myself and you can attend matches and no, it is not the case that all disabled people will have a PA with them.

Why is it ridiculous to suggest that people split up

Because it is - and support services agree that is not Club policy nor should be.

Do not accuse me of judging people with a hidden disability,

I didn’t - I said we shouldn’t and can’t judge people using the ramp because some disabilities ARE HIDDEN - if you feel people are on it that shouldn’t be, report them to the steward or write a complaint to the club.

I have a hidden disability which requires me to have a pa, getting on a train by myself is not even an option for me. I wouldn't be able to attend matches if it wasn't for the club's excellent disability policies.

Nor would I and I am not questioning whether you are in that situation either.

You're lecturing the wrong person and making incorrect assumptions that I know nothing about either the clubs policies or peoples experiences of having a hidden disability

Did I say that? You asked me what I thought a solution should be and I said speak to the Steward in charge of ramp at the time if you have found your path down the ramp was blocked by people you think shouldnt have been using the ramp.

That is a perfectly reasonable response.

. I've had my disability for over 30 years and have dealt with loads of crap from people because it's hidden.

Do you think you are alone in that - why have a tirade against me ffs -

If I were waiting on the ramp and saw a group of 20 in front of me, I'd tell them they were taking the p**s to expect to all go together.

Personally I wouldn’t- I’m usually too weak, in too much severe physical pain and fatigued to get into it with people that might or might not have a need to use the ramp. I would probably phone the Club or speak to the Support Services if I felt it an issue for myself.

Maybe I'm just a bit more considerate to other disabled people and wouldn't expect a whole group of us to go through and leave others on the ramp when I know I only need one person with me.

So am I and if there is anyway that I am feeling strong enough to use the steps or if they are not too crowded or that it would not be too be dangerous to go down them with crutches in my hand, I would and sometimes do.

I am certainly not having a go at you - clearly there IS A PROBLEM and clearly fans are pissed off about it. But some of the suggestions being proposed on this thread would make it even harder for disabled fans to access live matches at the Amex than it already is. I am just saying there are other ways to approach the issue.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

It's an issue that has no solution really, no minimum wage staff member is going to challenge anyone.


After the AEK home match a group of 5 jumped the queue because their mate was on crutches. Kind of felt like they were abusing the system a little but what can you do in reality.

The solution is wristbands.

 

[Zeberdi]

The solution is wristbands.

I agree with this - it is a far better solution than some that have been suggested and Support Services says it works well. One is being left for me at the ticket office to collect before the match on Thursday because tbh the thought that I will be scrutinised going down the ramp by able bodied fans to see if I deserve to use it, makes me feel distinctly uncomfortable- I had never even been aware of that before. I did not have to ‘provide proof’ as some above suggested, but just fill out a form sent by email - all arranged very kindly by Support Services over the phone when I explained that able bodied fans were getting angry at the fact some people may be using the ramp when they shouldn’t. Never needed a wristband before but as I said, if it helps able bodied fans feel better about who is using the slope, happy to oblige but me (and all disabled people/those who struggle with steps) having a wrist band won’t stop the congestion problem at the top of the steps and it won’t stop trains leaving half empty and it won’t make the queue go down any quicker - or the platforms any safer - if there was not so much congestion people probably would not be so concerned that a minority of fans appear to be jumping the queue. Maybe once the new hospitality dome thingy is built, more people will stay for a drink after matches instead of 1,000s all rushing for the train at the same time? Perhaps staggering the crowd more before even letting them get to the bridge would be an option - or giving people with children or disabled people a priority slot to exit the stadium to the Station before others might be an idea? There are better ways to look at this than removing the use of ramp for disabled access or making disabled fans buy photo IDs etc in order they can leave the stadium safely or restricting the number in the disabled person’s party that can travel together.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I agree with this - it is a far better solution than some that have been suggested and Support Services says it works well. One is being left for me at the ticket office to collect before the match on Thursday because tbh the thought that I will be scrutinised going down the ramp by able bodied fans to see if I deserve to use it, makes me feel distinctly uncomfortable- I had never even been aware of that before. I did not have to ‘provide proof’ as some above suggested, but just fill out a form sent by email - all arranged very kindly by Support Services over the phone when I explained that able bodied fans were getting angry at the fact some people may be using the ramp when they shouldn’t. Never needed a wristband before but as I said, if it helps able bodied fans feel better about who is using the slope, happy to oblige but me (and all disabled people/those who struggle with steps) having a wrist band won’t stop the congestion problem at the top of the steps and it won’t stop trains leaving half empty and it won’t make the queue go down any quicker - or the platforms any safer - if there was not so much congestion people probably would not be so concerned that a minority of fans appear to be jumping the queue. Maybe once the new hospitality dome thingy is built, more people will stay for a drink after matches instead of 1,000s all rushing for the train at the same time? Perhaps staggering the crowd more before even letting them get to the bridge would be an option - or giving people with children or disabled people a priority slot to exit the stadium to the Station before others might be an idea? There are better ways to look at this than removing the use of ramp for disabled access or making disabled fans buy photo IDs etc in order they can leave the stadium safely or restricting the number in the disabled person’s party that can travel together.

Good for you. I repeat, no one is having a go at disabled people. It’s the piss-takers (who are doing you no favours whatever) that many of us get annoyed about. Glad to hear that the system works smoothly.

You are quite right about seeking solutions to reduce the crowding and queues. No doubt that’s one of the perceived benefits of the new fanzone.

 

[dazzer6666]

The solution is wristbands.

Agree - a discreet flash of the wristband to the steward and on you go.......and the rest in the queue won't be judgmental because a check will have taken place. ATM anyone with a non-visible disability is, I suspect, being viewed as a pisstaker by default.

 

[Cotton Socks]

Of course not but I wasn’t responding to that - I was responding to some of the suggestions (and assumptions )
that were being suggested

Including presumption above - it is not about ‘skipping queues but creating ways disabled people like myself and you can attend matches and no, it is not the case that all disabled people will have a PA with them.

Because it is - and support services agree that is not Club policy nor should be.


I didn’t - I said we shouldn’t and can’t judge people using the ramp because some disabilities ARE HIDDEN - if you feel people are on it that shouldn’t be, report them to the steward or write a complaint to the club.

Nor would I and I am not questioning whether you are in that situation either.

Did I say that? You asked me what I thought a solution should be and I said speak to the Steward in charge of ramp at the time if you have found your path down the ramp was blocked by people you think shouldnt have been using the ramp.

That is a perfectly reasonable response.


Do you think you are alone in that - why have a tirade against me ffs -

Personally I wouldn’t- I’m usually too weak, in too much severe physical pain and fatigued to get into it with people that might or might not have a need to use the ramp. I would probably phone the Club or speak to the Support Services if I felt it an issue for myself.


So am I and if there is anyway that I am feeling strong enough to use the steps or if they are not too crowded or that it would not be too be dangerous to go down them with crutches in my hand, I would and sometimes do.

I am certainly not having a go at you - clearly there IS A PROBLEM and clearly fans are pissed off about it. But some of the suggestions being proposed on this thread would make it even harder for disabled fans to access live matches at the Amex than it already is. I am just saying there are other ways to approach the issue.

I think it was these lines in your reply to me that gave the impression you thought I was being judgemental towards people with hidden disabilities.

'Who are you or any other fan to judge that someone has ‘sod all wrong with them’ - many disabilities are hidden - that is the point.
For fans to be a little more patient about waiting, less judgmental towards those who might have hidden disabilities maybe ?'

When I say a pa, I don't mean someone that I pay. I mean a friend, like the person that goes with you to assist you. They're there to personally assist you. In my case one of my friends hates football and I have to bribe them with beer, they are obviously only used at the last resort as it does end up costing a fortune! They know a couple of player names now though so slowly I'm leading them over. Now Jnr is getting older, knows what to do in case he needs to, feels safe inside & outside the stadium & knows that someone will help, he's generally assisting me now. A lot cheaper as I only have to buy him a pie, it's probably not going to be long before he wants to go with his mates, so I'll be back to getting friends to come with me.

It isn't discriminatory to split up groups, you can't fit more than 6 in a cab so is that discriminatory if you've got another 14 people in your group? The chances of getting tickets for a large group to sit together are quite slim these days especially if you buy last minute on the exchange (which I mostly do, as I don't know if I've got the money until the last min). I bought my ticket for Thur on the exchange & managed to get 3 together (thanks to whoever posted it), the ko time is too late for me or jnr to feel comfortable with him as my assistant for that match.
The Albion are amazing with their disability policies. I can sit where I want rather than having a 'specific' disabled persons seat where a) I could be taking it away from someone & b) because it's 'hidden' I'll look like a tosser c) I don't need it, I need an end of aisle seat to make sure I don't get wedged. At Wembley you can only go in a disabled 'spot' & you can only have your pa with you. Not very helpful, unless I wanted to leave jnr sitting on his own. He is not old enough yet for either of us to feel comfortable going there with him as my sole assistant. At an Amex match the nearest person to call is 5 mins away & he has my phone pin to call loads of other people.

At the moment it appears that I could use my disability as a reason to take a whole group to the front of the queue, but I wouldn't and I don't think many people with disabilities would, simply because they know there are others behind in the same situation as them.
The op was not talking about people like you or I, he was talking about people taking the p**s and if you genuinely believe that all these people in 'groups' can't be split up as it will ruin their whole matchday experience, I think you're being naive.
Maybe I'm just more realistic of accommodations that can & should be made for people with disabilities. You simply cannot allow a big group to use the disabled ramp to the detriment of people behind in that same queue. Wristbands are a great solution but there does need to be limits on the amount of people that can go with you, kids obviously go with you, but no-one needs another 6+ adults. At some point they're going to separate to go to their own houses anyway. It makes no sense to let 20 people accompany one person.

 

[dazzer6666]

I think it was these lines in your reply to me that gave the impression you thought I was being judgemental towards people with hidden disabilities.

'Who are you or any other fan to judge that someone has ‘sod all wrong with them’ - many disabilities are hidden - that is the point.
For fans to be a little more patient about waiting, less judgmental towards those who might have hidden disabilities maybe ?'

When I say a pa, I don't mean someone that I pay. I mean a friend, like the person that goes with you to assist you. They're there to personally assist you. In my case one of my friends hates football and I have to bribe them with beer, they are obviously only used at the last resort as it does end up costing a fortune! They know a couple of player names now though so slowly I'm leading them over. Now Jnr is getting older, knows what to do in case he needs to, feels safe inside & outside the stadium & knows that someone will help, he's generally assisting me now. A lot cheaper as I only have to buy him a pie, it's probably not going to be long before he wants to go with his mates, so I'll be back to getting friends to come with me.

It isn't discriminatory to split up groups, you can't fit more than 6 in a cab so is that discriminatory if you've got another 14 people in your group? The chances of getting tickets for a large group to sit together are quite slim these days especially if you buy last minute on the exchange (which I mostly do, as I don't know if I've got the money until the last min). I bought my ticket for Thur on the exchange & managed to get 3 together (thanks to whoever posted it), the ko time is too late for me or jnr to feel comfortable with him as my assistant for that match.
The Albion are amazing with their disability policies. I can sit where I want rather than having a 'specific' disabled persons seat where a) I could be taking it away from someone & b) because it's 'hidden' I'll look like a tosser c) I don't need it, I need an end of aisle seat to make sure I don't get wedged. At Wembley you can only go in a disabled 'spot' & you can only have your pa with you. Not very helpful, unless I wanted to leave jnr sitting on his own. He is not old enough yet for either of us to feel comfortable going there with him as my sole assistant. At an Amex match the nearest person to call is 5 mins away & he has my phone pin to call loads of other people.

At the moment it appears that I could use my disability as a reason to take a whole group to the front of the queue, but I wouldn't and I don't think many people with disabilities would, simply because they know there are others behind in the same situation as them.
The op was not talking about people like you or I, he was talking about people taking the p**s and if you genuinely believe that all these people in 'groups' can't be split up as it will ruin their whole matchday experience, I think you're being naive.
Maybe I'm just more realistic of accommodations that can & should be made for people with disabilities. You simply cannot allow a big group to use the disabled ramp to the detriment of people behind in that same queue. Wristbands are a great solution but there does need to be limits on the amount of people that can go with you, kids obviously go with you, but no-one needs another 6+ adults. At some point they're going to separate to go to their own houses anyway. It makes no sense to let 20 people accompany one person.

..........any more than a carload is probably out of order in the vast majority of cases perhaps ? Can understand a group of 4-5 wanting to stay together for onward travel

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think it was these lines in your reply to me that gave the impression you thought I was being judgemental towards people with hidden disabilities.

'Who are you or any other fan to judge that someone has ‘sod all wrong with them’ - many disabilities are hidden - that is the point.
For fans to be a little more patient about waiting, less judgmental towards those who might have hidden disabilities maybe ?'

When I say a pa, I don't mean someone that I pay. I mean a friend, like the person that goes with you to assist you. They're there to personally assist you. In my case one of my friends hates football and I have to bribe them with beer, they are obviously only used at the last resort as it does end up costing a fortune! They know a couple of player names now though so slowly I'm leading them over. Now Jnr is getting older, knows what to do in case he needs to, feels safe inside & outside the stadium & knows that someone will help, he's generally assisting me now. A lot cheaper as I only have to buy him a pie, it's probably not going to be long before he wants to go with his mates, so I'll be back to getting friends to come with me.

It isn't discriminatory to split up groups, you can't fit more than 6 in a cab so is that discriminatory if you've got another 14 people in your group? The chances of getting tickets for a large group to sit together are quite slim these days especially if you buy last minute on the exchange (which I mostly do, as I don't know if I've got the money until the last min). I bought my ticket for Thur on the exchange & managed to get 3 together (thanks to whoever posted it), the ko time is too late for me or jnr to feel comfortable with him as my assistant for that match.
The Albion are amazing with their disability policies. I can sit where I want rather than having a 'specific' disabled persons seat where a) I could be taking it away from someone & b) because it's 'hidden' I'll look like a tosser c) I don't need it, I need an end of aisle seat to make sure I don't get wedged. At Wembley you can only go in a disabled 'spot' & you can only have your pa with you. Not very helpful, unless I wanted to leave jnr sitting on his own. He is not old enough yet for either of us to feel comfortable going there with him as my sole assistant. At an Amex match the nearest person to call is 5 mins away & he has my phone pin to call loads of other people.

At the moment it appears that I could use my disability as a reason to take a whole group to the front of the queue, but I wouldn't and I don't think many people with disabilities would, simply because they know there are others behind in the same situation as them.
The op was not talking about people like you or I, he was talking about people taking the p**s and if you genuinely believe that all these people in 'groups' can't be split up as it will ruin their whole matchday experience, I think you're being naive.
Maybe I'm just more realistic of accommodations that can & should be made for people with disabilities. You simply cannot allow a big group to use the disabled ramp to the detriment of people behind in that same queue. Wristbands are a great solution but there does need to be limits on the amount of people that can go with you, kids obviously go with you, but no-one needs another 6+ adults. At some point they're going to separate to go to their own houses anyway. It makes no sense to let 20 people accompany one person.

I think most, if not all, people appreciate 6 or more is too many. I think up to 4 is quite reasonable.

 

[jcdenton08]

I’ve seen lads brazenly leave the back of the queue and “tailgate” wheelchair users acting just long enough as if they’re with them. Often they are drunk/drugged up and nobody dare say anything.

 

[Zeberdi]

I think it was these lines in your reply to me that gave the impression you thought I was being judgemental towards people with hidden disabilities.

No - I simply meant ‘who are you, me, or anyone’ to judge whether anyone was disabled enough/at all because so many disabilities are hidden. That’s why I think the wrist band system is a good system. It just needs able bodied fans to complain to the Stewards or club if they think people are indeed using the ramp to jump the queue.

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

I haven’t commented on this yet despite this being my route home, firstly I just need to clarify how this compares to staying in the left hand lane on the A27 and turning left on the Lyminster road but then doing a u turn and continuing on past Arundel?
Obviously I’m asking for a friend

 

[mile oak]

I’ve just had a long conversation with B&HA support services.

Firstly, they agreed absolutely, some of the suggestions being proposed (proof of illness, photo IDs, removal of ramp, splitting of ramp, splitting up groups, disabled people who can use a train don’t need the ramp or a pa etc) would impose an undue burden on those already coping with disability themselves or in the family and would be discriminatory. There are no plans to restrict those with hidden disabilities from using the ramp or making it more onerous for them to do so. The wristband system works well in their view (and they answered my questions about away fans too) - and stewards do check fans for wristbands if there might be any possibility fans are abusing the system.

Because if a party have bought tickets together and attending the match together, they should be able to exit the grounds together - I asked support services about this specifically and they totally agreed - the system in place allows all those that purchased tickets together to use the ramp together. To expect disabled fans not to travel/exit the grounds in the group they attended the match with is discriminatory when you don’t impose that expectation on any other fans

Who are you or any other fan to judge that someone has ‘sod all wrong with them’ - many disabilities are hidden - that is the point.

For fans to be a little more patient about waiting, less judgmental towards those who might have hidden disabilities maybe ?

- and if they see people they think are using a ramp when they think they don’t need to, then complain to a Steward at the time or contact the Club directly as I have and discuss the issue with them. That is according to support services.


That has never happened to me - in all the time I have been attending the Club with my current level of immobility- in fact, the stewards have been exceptionally quick to clear the ramp of any jokers if any disabled people need to use it in my experience.

I also think the Club’s disability policies are top class - without those in place, it would be nigh on impossible for some fans to attend matches but if you have a problem with any of the above that I have said, I suggest you take it up with the Club.

By all means discuss other ways to deal with the crowding issues but as I said, leave disabled people to do what they need to do and for the Club to decide what the criteria should be for applying for a ‘hidden disabilities’ wristband.

Thank you for updating us all and for again a top class posts - i would just hope Stewards use common sense and e.g. a walking crutch stick or wheelchair and no wrist band doesn't outright mean no ramp use. If queue jumpers see the stewards are more actively then im sure that alone will stop a lot of the issues being discussed in this thread. You said: "To expect disabled fans not to travel/exit the grounds in the group they attended the match with is discriminatory when you don’t impose that expectation on any other fans" Well said I totally agree. Im not sure how these wristbands work so im just curious as you refer to hidden disabilities so Im guessing if you are not in a wheelchair, walking with an aid crutch or stick etc then you may have a hidden disability such that its not obvious and therefore a wrist band can help as presumably if nothing else you can show a steward and it avoids any embarrassment of being stopped.

 

[mile oak]

No - I simply meant ‘who are you, me, or anyone’ to judge whether anyone was disabled enough/at all because so many disabilities are hidden. That’s why I think the wrist band system is a good system. It just needs able bodied fans to complain to the Stewards or club if they think people are indeed using the ramp to jump the queue.

Exactly make use of the stewards as they are there at the time and on the whole I find the club stewards generally very good. I mean that overall not just on train routes in and outta the ground. Can be a little over zealous at times but its well meant i believe.

 

[Zeberdi]

Im not sure how these wristbands work so im just curious as you refer to hidden disabilities so Im guessing if you are not in a wheelchair, walking with an aid crutch or stick etc then you may have a hidden disability such that its not obvious and therefore a wrist band can help as presumably if nothing else you can show a steward and it avoids any embarrassment of being stopped.

That is it exactly

Brighton & Hove Albion

Brighton & Hove Albion

www.brightonandhovealbion.com

 

[mile oak]

That is it exactly

Brighton & Hove Albion

Brighton & Hove Albion

www.brightonandhovealbion.com

I would just hope that Stewards can be left to do their job, use some common sense (crutches, walking stick, wheelchair etc I dont think anyone can say the ramp isnt required!) and it doesn't become a 'no wrist band no go' situation (that would be absurd) . Also that people dont go trying to call out shaming people using the ramp as that would be awful for them.

 

[East Staffs Gull]

A problem with the east bound platform ramp, is that there are multiple entry points to the disabled lane. Wristbands are only part of the solution. There should be a completely separate route for fans with disabilities and their helpers, with a single controlled point of entry. Everyone else should be able to use both sides of the ramp, thereby reducing the queue length and providing more shelter from the rain.

 

[mile oak]

A problem with the east bound platform ramp, is that there are multiple entry points to the disabled lane. Wristbands are only part of the solution. There should be a completely separate route for fans with disabilities and their helpers, with a single controlled point of entry. Everyone else should be able to use both sides of the ramp, thereby reducing the queue length and providing more shelter from the rain.

not sure thats practical all the way up the 3 lanes as it would converge with the Brighton westbound queue and become unmanageable chaos - you have to draw the line somewhere otherwise why not have 3 lanes back to the North exit and a lane spurs off to East West etc etc! I think the system works reasonably well as is there cant be that many groups of 20 travelling together. LEt the Stewards do their job Im sure theyve got the message by now

 

[drew]

No - I simply meant ‘who are you, me, or anyone’ to judge whether anyone was disabled enough/at all because so many disabilities are hidden. That’s why I think the wrist band system is a good system. It just needs able bodied fans to complain to the Stewards or club if they think people are indeed using the ramp to jump the queue.

I appreciate not all disabilities are visible but surely there needs to be a reason that makes use of the ramp necessary which is most likely a physical disability. If someone has an issue that means queuing in a crowd is not feasible then surely that same condition is going to prevent them getting on and standing on a crowded train. That said, it is not right that 20 odd people march through for one person with a disability. Maybe 2 accompanying adults and any children with them. If the facility is over abused then it becomes impotent.

 

[mile oak]

I appreciate not all disabilities are visible but surely there needs to be a reason that makes use of the ramp necessary which is most likely a physical disability. If someone has an issue that means queuing in a crowd is not feasible then surely that same condition is going to prevent them getting on and standing on a crowded train. That said, it is not right that 20 odd people march through for one person with a disability. Maybe 2 accompanying adults and any children with them. If the facility is over abused then it becomes impotent.

Disabled ppl do struggle in other situations yes and I can only hope we all show tolerance and understanding in these situations but that doesnt invalidate the need for the ramp. Secondly who am I you or anyone else to determine who came and leaves in a group, what if its adult Mum disabled and able Dad and 3 kids? Or do we set the limit at 4? 5? but what if one of these is age say 15 or 16 do they separate and go down the other pathway FFS - just let the Stewards do their job as Ive said im sure they have got the message some people (a relative very small number) maybe shouldnt be using the ramp. I say maybe as who am i to judge them!