The Ashes,where do England go from here ?

[Kalimantan Gull]

After today's performances ?

yes. They had an awful day but knee-jerk reactions get you nowhere. Same guys who comfortably beat Oz at home and India away in the last year.

 

[topbanana36]

Think they should spend time with the sports psychologist get their mental state right. Its so noticeable they are all like frightened rabbits.

 

[KZNSeagull]

The one thing that England cannot do is force or let Cook walk away from Test cricket. I don't think he will but he should resign as Captain, rest after this series, not play in the T20 or any of that crap and sort his game out.

He is the best English batsman we have had for years and could be one of the best ever. He has to stay. He is only 28 and only coming into his prime as a batsmen. Let him concentrate on that and nothing else.

The delivery he got this morning would have got anyone out.

This should be the last hurrah for KP though. EDIT - MUST be his last hurrah.

 

[sten_super]

yes. They had an awful day but knee-jerk reactions get you nowhere. Same guys who comfortably beat Oz at home and India away in the last year.

I'd go along with the same side that beat Australia last summer, but I think this is a pale imitation of the side that beat India. The batting is an absolute shambles, and that's been the case for at least 12 months. Look at that India series and it was won on the back of a few big innings - Cook, Pietersen, Trott and Bell all got at least one hundred. Nobody has looked like getting close to a hundred on this tour. Add to that the lack of a fourth bowler (what the hell has been done to Finn?), Swann's decline (unsurprising given his age and workload) and some serious selection howlers (bringing Rankin and Tremlett when not up to the task, picking a reserve keeper that they aren't willing to pick) and some serious mental fatigue and this side is a LONG way from a decent one. We're more or less relying on Broad to run through sides by himself for a pittance.

 

[topbanana36]

I would like to see raw pace, something that we do not have. A 90mph bowler like Harmison. Mills and the other speedster from Essex must be worth a shout in the future.

 

[KZNSeagull]

I would like to see raw pace, something that we do not have. A 90mph bowler like Harmison. Mills and the other speedster from Essex must be worth a shout in the future.

We have all these 6'6"+ bowlers, but they don't bowl that fast - Tremlett in particular - what's that all about?

 

[topbanana36]

We have all these 6'6"+ bowlers, but they don't bowl that fast - Tremlett in particular - what's that all about?

Get Syd and Devon out of retirement.

 

[Pantani]

Boycott just nailed it re Pietersen. How can you educate young players coming in to the team on which shots to play and when if you are going to let KP repeatedly get away with his nonsense? It is time for him to go for the good of the team, you just cannot be that stupid, that often, for so long and still get picked. What kind of message does it send to the rest of the team?

 

[sten_super]

I would like to see raw pace, something that we do not have. A 90mph bowler like Harmison. Mills and the other speedster from Essex must be worth a shout in the future.

We tend to struggle to produce genuine quicks, I think partly because the pitches aren't as suited to them as say Australian or South African pitches, but also because they often (particularly when young) tend to lack control. The current set up are reluctant to pick 5 genuine bowlers (I know they have Stokes in now as a 5th, but he wouldn't get in on the strength of his bowling alone) which makes it difficult to have a 'luxury' quick. Mills and Topley might be worth a shout, although they need much more exposure to first class cricket - they have less than 130 first class wickets between them. Same goes for Jamie Overton at Somerset.

I'd like to see Sam Robson come in, probably as opener in place of Carberry, after this tour. I also think they should decide where they want Root to bat and stick with it - if that's 3 then so be it. I certainly think he's better than 6, and he has the right attitude which is going to be important in a time of transition. I'd stick with Stokes at 6 and give Prior a rest - which means either Butler or Foakes in as keeper (Foakes is young but might be better suited to Test cricket long term than Butler). Get Finn back in the side (probably for Bresnan) and pluck a replacement for Swann from somewhere - realistically I've got no idea who might be lined up to replace him, given the stick that Kerrigan got in the last Test in the summer.

 

[topbanana36]

We have all these 6'6"+ bowlers, but they don't bowl that fast - Tremlett in particular - what's that all about?

Get Syd and Devon out of retirement.

 

[Pavilionaire]

There were suggestions that England were under-prepared coming into this test, and this certainly looks the case. The warm-up opposition was surprisingly weak, and all the batsmen scored a hatful of runs. Sadly, they don't appear to have been aware that Mitchell Johnson would be bowling consistently at 90+ miles per hour.

The batsmen now seem to slowly finding their feet but it's too little too late.

Tomorrow will be a pivotal day for Prior. Crazy as it seems, he has to make those around him believe England can still win because it is shit or bust. I don't think they will get out of this hole, but he has to remind his team that he batted through the final day vs. New Zealand to earn England a drawn series and that they still have hope. They've got half the runs but lost half their wickets. The new ball will be key; I expect that will do for England, but if they could get through to the midpoint of Day 5 the new ball will be about 30 overs old and softening up.

 

[Bold Seagull]

There were suggestions that England were under-prepared coming into this test, and this certainly looks the case. The warm-up opposition was surprisingly weak, and all the batsmen scored a hatful of runs. Sadly, they don't appear to have been aware that Mitchell Johnson would be bowling consistently at 90+ miles per hour.

The batsmen now seem to slowly finding their feet but it's too little too late.

Tomorrow will be a pivotal day for Prior. Crazy as it seems, he has to make those around him believe England can still win because it is shit or bust. I don't think they will get out of this hole, but he has to remind his team that he batted through the final day vs. New Zealand to earn England a drawn series and that they still have hope. They've got half the runs but lost half their wickets. The new ball will be key; I expect that will do for England, but if they could get through to the midpoint of Day 5 the new ball will be about 30 overs old and softening up.

The batsmen are slowly finding their feet!? Are you mental? Who is finding their feet exactly on this absolutely corking Perth wicket? Only Cook, Bell and Stokes have got past 50 runs for 15 wickets on this pitch. They have 3 centuries and 3 fifties.

Mid point of Day 5, seriously, if they get past an hour they will have done well the way things have gone so far in this tour. The first innings they only had 10 overs until the new ball, and managed to lose 3 wickets before that was even taken. I can't believe anyone can even remotely in the wildest of imaginations believe England can save this match.

 

[keaton]

Boycott just nailed it re Pietersen. How can you educate young players coming in to the team on which shots to play and when if you are going to let KP repeatedly get away with his nonsense? It is time for him to go for the good of the team, you just cannot be that stupid, that often, for so long and still get picked. What kind of message does it send to the rest of the team?

Didn't Bell do exactly the same before being Player of the Series against the Aussies?

Boycott definetley seems like a sensible person generally and I imagine is inn no way bitter about KP beating his records. And he was an excellent captain

 

[Pantani]

Didn't Bell do exactly the same before being Player of the Series against the Aussies?

Boycott definetley seems like a sensible person generally and I imagine is inn no way bitter about KP beating his records. And he was an excellent captain

No. He was caught at slip for 25 in the first innings of the first test. Then hit 109, 109, 74, 60, 4no, 6, 113, 45 and 17. He did not get caught on the leg side five times in six innings, like brain dead Pietersen.

 

[rcf0712]

Whether you listern or watch it;s still the same. Can anyone disagree with the report ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/25379976

er, Melbourne, then Sydney for more total humiliation, I can't wait for them to **** off back to England, utterly pathetic effort, so embarrassed.

 

[grummitts gloves]

It's ridiculous how much cricket they play nowadays. Virtually all year round and like football it's all about money. 2 ashes in the same year is stupid and what's the point of all those games scheduled to be played in Oz once the Ashes have finished?

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Argubably the worst display ever Down Under, taking all previous series in context ( in living memory ).
The unforgiveable crime for any sportsman is to lose without a fight and this has been abject surrender of the highest order. It baffles me how so many posters on here seem happy to write this off as a blip..." oh well, it'll be alright when we get back to England " There also seems to be a view that this is a very good Australian side and we have been outplayed. Wrong. This is a pretty ordinary team that were well beaten in England only a few months ago. The difference between the two sides is that Australia went away, regrouped and planned this series meticulously. They worked out what had been going wrong in England. Too many left-handers for Swann to wreak havoc with. They moved the lefties to the top of the order and stacked the middle order with right handers to counter-balance the England off-spinner. They knew in their heart of hearts that some of the England players don't like quick bouncy wickets. Flat-track bullies in England, on slower wickets, faint-hearted down under.
They knew Trott was in trouble in England. He couldn't settle at the wicket. He was taking his stance all over the place. He couldn't play short-pitched bowling at his body. They knew that if he played in Brisbane, they would go after him. England played into their hands. It was a gift from the gods. A ' shot-away batsman ripe for destroying. They knew Cook was struggling in England. They knew, mentally, he's not that strong. His ( very good and effective ) game falls apart every two to three years. They sensed he was heading for another crash. They knew Pietersen's heart wasn't in Test cricket anymore. A show pony, looking to earn big bucks in the crudity of twenty20. Living on past glories and not that bothered anymore. The England management had fallen over backwards to embrace him back into the fold, so he could do no wrong. He has surrendered his wicket meekly more and more as he has got older and the Aussies knew he wouldn't fancy this series. Too much like hard work.
They knew Prior was a gimme wicket on quick Aussie tracks. They knew he wouldn't fancy it ( like KP ) and would give it away rather than try and battle it out.
They knew Swann and Anderson would be much less effective this series and have targetted them. They saw the England management were undecided about both bowling and batting line-ups. They worked out a game plan and stuck to it, whilst England fell into the twin traps of complacency and indecision. Weak leadership from management and captain helped the Aussies more than they could have imagined.
There was only one other factor that the Aussies needed in their favour. The toss. Lo and behold, Mr.Clarke must have trodden in some lucky dust. The final nail in England's coffin.
Where do England go from here. Well, sadly they have to go through the motions of two more Tests. The damage has been done. The Ashes given away, with barely a whimper. There now has to be changes. The selfish and ego-centric Pietersen has to be discarded, along with the overrated and gutless Prior. Trott is finished and I'm afraid Cook needs to be rested for his own sake. He has been another gimme wicket this series and it can't go on. He'll be back, though. Swann is nearing the end and its obvious that Anderson is only effective when conditions suit him. I would persevere with Carberry and Root, Bell and Stokes are definites but they have to decide where suits Root best. A major overhaul is needed. This isn't knee-jerk. This display has been so pitiful that you have to dig out the malaise and change the whole mindset.
As for the management, well, you can leave them all down under as far as I'm concerned. They did nothing to prepare properly for this series. They didn't acknowledge the failings in the summer and learn from them. They sent a player out to bat at no.3 in the first Test who was a mental and physical wreck and in doing so, handed the initiative to the Aussies, which they never surrendered. Criminal.
No England cricket performance has ever angered me so much as this one and I apologise for this diatribe but I've just got to vent my spleen. To see precious wickets tossed away, over and over again. To watch unacceptable sub-standard cricket from a supposedly top nation. To see a series gifted to our fiercest rivals. To watch our players crumble mentally against an Australian side that hardly rates as one of their all-time greats.
I've played ( at a decent level ) and watched a lot of cricket over the last 50 years and felt disappointed and pissed off in the past at England performances. This is the first time I can honestly say that I have been ashamed of an England side.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Argubably the worst display ever Down Under, taking all previous series in context ( in living memory ).
The unforgiveable crime for any sportsman is to lose without a fight and this has been abject surrender of the highest order. It baffles me how so many posters on here seem happy to write this off as a blip..." oh well, it'll be alright when we get back to England " There also seems to be a view that this is a very good Australian side and we have been outplayed. Wrong. This is a pretty ordinary team that were well beaten in England only a few months ago. The difference between the two sides is that Australia went away, regrouped and planned this series meticulously. They worked out what had been going wrong in England. Too many left-handers for Swann to wreak havoc with. They moved the lefties to the top of the order and stacked the middle order with right handers to counter-balance the England off-spinner. They knew in their heart of hearts that some of the England players don't like quick bouncy wickets. Flat-track bullies in England, on slower wickets, faint-hearted down under.
They knew Trott was in trouble in England. He couldn't settle at the wicket. He was taking his stance all over the place. He couldn't play short-pitched bowling at his body. They knew that if he played in Brisbane, they would go after him. England played into their hands. It was a gift from the gods. A ' shot-away batsman ripe for destroying. They knew Cook was struggling in England. They knew, mentally, he's not that strong. His ( very good and effective ) game falls apart every two to three years. They sensed he was heading for another crash. They knew Pietersen's heart wasn't in Test cricket anymore. A show pony, looking to earn big bucks in the crudity of twenty20. Living on past glories and not that bothered anymore. The England management had fallen over backwards to embrace him back into the fold, so he could do no wrong. He has surrendered his wicket meekly more and more as he has got older and the Aussies knew he wouldn't fancy this series. Too much like hard work.
They knew Prior was a gimme wicket on quick Aussie tracks. They knew he wouldn't fancy it ( like KP ) and would give it away rather than try and battle it out.
They knew Swann and Anderson would be much less effective this series and have targetted them. They saw the England management were undecided about both bowling and batting line-ups. They worked out a game plan and stuck to it, whilst England fell into the twin traps of complacency and indecision. Weak leadership from management and captain helped the Aussies more than they could have imagined.
There was only one other factor that the Aussies needed in their favour. The toss. Lo and behold, Mr.Clarke must have trodden in some lucky dust. The final nail in England's coffin.
Where do England go from here. Well, sadly they have to go through the motions of two more Tests. The damage has been done. The Ashes given away, with barely a whimper. There now has to be changes. The selfish and ego-centric Pietersen has to be discarded, along with the overrated and gutless Prior. Trott is finished and I'm afraid Cook needs to be rested for his own sake. He has been another gimme wicket this series and it can't go on. He'll be back, though. Swann is nearing the end and its obvious that Anderson is only effective when conditions suit him. I would persevere with Carberry and Root, Bell and Stokes are definites but they have to decide where suits Root best. A major overhaul is needed. This isn't knee-jerk. This display has been so pitiful that you have to dig out the malaise and change the whole mindset.
As for the management, well, you can leave them all down under as far as I'm concerned. They did nothing to prepare properly for this series. They didn't acknowledge the failings in the summer and learn from them. They sent a player out to bat at no.3 in the first Test who was a mental and physical wreck and in doing so, handed the initiative to the Aussies, which they never surrendered. Criminal.
No England cricket performance has ever angered me so much as this one and I apologise for this diatribe but I've just got to vent my spleen. To see precious wickets tossed away, over and over again. To watch unacceptable sub-standard cricket from a supposedly top nation. To see a series gifted to our fiercest rivals. To watch our players crumble mentally against an Australian side that hardly rates as one of their all-time greats.
I've played ( at a decent level ) and watched a lot of cricket over the last 50 years and felt disappointed and pissed off in the past at England performances. This is the first time I can honestly say that I have been ashamed of an England side.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Apologies folks for the double post....it will be hard enough reading it once!!!

 

[keaton]

No. He was caught at slip for 25 in the first innings of the first test. Then hit 109, 109, 74, 60, 4no, 6, 113, 45 and 17. He did not get caught on the leg side five times in six innings, like brain dead Pietersen.

No as in repeadetly get out to stupid shots. Which he did. Before the Ashes