[Cricket] The Ashes- England v Australia- 3rd Test, Headingley, July 06-10, 2023

[Mellotron]

England XI confirmed;

1. Zak Crawley
2. Ben Duckett
3. Harry Brook
4. Joe Root
5. Jonny Bairstow (wk)
6. Ben Stokes (c)
7. Moeen Ali
8. Chris Woakes
9. Mark Wood
10. Ollie Robinson
11. Stuart Broad

Slightly harsh on Tongue but can understand the logic.

 

[Milano]

Bairstow still has the gloves, FML. Through his own ineptitude he’s somehow made himself impossible to drop, good work.

 

[Audax]

I didn't know about this one



I'm comfortable with keepers stumping someone who has a foot lifted at the point it hits the gloves, but this one doesn't feel right.

First of the above quotes speaks towards Bairstow's way of thinking - he's clearly of a mind that the 'keeper is entitled to take advantage if the batter makes a dozy error. That stumping is a perfect example of something I raised in the other thread. If that's considered fair for a spinner, then IMO what Carey did is also fair (esp as Carey didn't pause and wait). Or if the latter is deemed unsportsmanlike, then so is what Bairstow did back then.

My gut instinct was that Bairstow would’ve done something similar to Carey if the roles were reversed. I still completely disagree with it but seeing that semi-confirms that Bairstow is also a bit of a snide.

Your gut instinct is supported by Head's statements about something that happened in the first test:

Travis Head claims Bairstow tried to dismiss him in a similar manner

Australia batter says England wicketkeeper tried to stump him at Edgbaston, just like Bairstow was stumped at Lord's

www.espncricinfo.com

Again - the evidence here suggests that Bairstow, as a 'keeper, clearly thinks that is an acceptable mode of dismissal. At this point I have absolutely no sympathy for Bairstow the batter. You reap what you sow. He tried it twice against the Aussies in the current series, he's tried it in the past against other teams, and he's dismissed a batsmen with a "within the rules, but probably not the spirit" technique in the past. You could even consider that Carey would never have thought to try it at all if Bairstow hadn't himself tried it.

 

[Eeyore]

England XI confirmed;

1. Zak Crawley
2. Ben Duckett
3. Harry Brook
4. Joe Root
5. Jonny Bairstow (wk)
6. Ben Stokes (c)
7. Moeen Ali
8. Chris Woakes
9. Mark Wood
10. Ollie Robinson
11. Stuart Broad

Slightly harsh on Tongue but can understand the logic.

The wicket is going to be doing something.

That's a strong batting line up if they get their heads down. Robinson is worth a 30 if he bats sensibly.

 

[Mellotron]

Like having the raw pace of Wood, especially as I'm sure we'll be looking to channel the crowd's hostility at points.

Feels a much more balanced bowling attack, and more depth to the batting too. Get into them early boys.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Your gut instinct is supported by Head's statements about something that happened in the first test:

Travis Head claims Bairstow tried to dismiss him in a similar manner

Australia batter says England wicketkeeper tried to stump him at Edgbaston, just like Bairstow was stumped at Lord's

www.espncricinfo.com

Again - the evidence here suggests that Bairstow, as a 'keeper, clearly thinks that is an acceptable mode of dismissal. At this point I have absolutely no sympathy for Bairstow the batter. You reap what you sow. He tried it twice against the Aussies in the current series, he's tried it in the past against other teams, and he's dismissed a batsmen with a "within the rules, but probably not the spirit" technique in the past. You could even consider that Carey would never have thought to try it at all if Bairstow hadn't himself tried it.

Has anybody produced the footage of Bairstow attempting to run out Head, and their exchange?
In the quote in the cricinfo article he refers to the ball being "whipped in" which seems to suggest it was being returned by a fielder.

 

[Crispy Ambulance]

Rain forecast for Friday, Saturday and Monday - draw.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Rain forecast for Friday, Saturday and Monday - draw.

Not a great deal of rain forecast though, and most of it is meant to be at the back end of the day, so I'd be surprised if much play was lost.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

First of the above quotes speaks towards Bairstow's way of thinking - he's clearly of a mind that the 'keeper is entitled to take advantage if the batter makes a dozy error. That stumping is a perfect example of something I raised in the other thread. If that's considered fair for a spinner, then IMO what Carey did is also fair (esp as Carey didn't pause and wait). Or if the latter is deemed unsportsmanlike, then so is what Bairstow did back then.



Your gut instinct is supported by Head's statements about something that happened in the first test:

Travis Head claims Bairstow tried to dismiss him in a similar manner

Australia batter says England wicketkeeper tried to stump him at Edgbaston, just like Bairstow was stumped at Lord's

www.espncricinfo.com

Again - the evidence here suggests that Bairstow, as a 'keeper, clearly thinks that is an acceptable mode of dismissal. At this point I have absolutely no sympathy for Bairstow the batter. You reap what you sow. He tried it twice against the Aussies in the current series, he's tried it in the past against other teams, and he's dismissed a batsmen with a "within the rules, but probably not the spirit" technique in the past. You could even consider that Carey would never have thought to try it at all if Bairstow hadn't himself tried it.

Do you know what, I am going to disregard anything said by the Aussies.

 

[PeterT]

Do you know what, I am going to disregard anything said by the Aussies.

I think plenty of them do genuinely believe that drivel.

 

[Bodian]

You can bet your life an England bowler will be desperately looking for a ' Mankad ' dismissal without any type of warning to the non striker. And as we've established how the Aussies want to play this game I'll have no qualms about us ignoring the etiquette of giving a warning.

We’re better than that. If we did resort to such pettiness we’d just as well hand the little urn to the Aussies now and play golf.

Ordinarily I'd totally agree. But in this case trying to uphold the spirit of the game has got us nowhere.

I'd like to see this, and also appealing for handling the ball when the batsman passes it back to the fielders. And then, when given out - we magmanimously withdraw the appeals.

 

[Mellotron]

Stuart Broad's the man to do something dickish, if anyone.

I hope he edges it to THIRD slip at a key moment and somehow gets away with it. Go on.

 

[Machiavelli]

Like having the raw pace of Wood, especially as I'm sure we'll be looking to channel the crowd's hostility at points.

Feels a much more balanced bowling attack, and more depth to the batting too. Get into them early boys.

I'm less convinced about either myself.
The tail looks stronger, but we've lost one specialist batsman from the line-up.
The bowling seems to be admission that Stokes is going to bowl precious few overs. I've said this before, we're really missing Leach as he can tie down one end and keep the run rate down, which allows the other bowlers to have shorter, more intensive spells. I'd love to be proved wrong, but not sure why Moeen has been included in the line-up.

 

[Mellotron]

I'm less convinced about either myself.
The tail looks stronger, but we've lost one specialist batsman from the line-up.
The bowling seems to be admission that Stokes is going to bowl precious few overs. I've said this before, we're really missing Leach as he can tie down one end and keep the run rate down, which allows the other bowlers to have shorter, more intensive spells. I'd love to be proved wrong, but not sure why Moeen has been included in the line-up.

Get where you're coming from, but a couple things.

Batting wise we've effectively replaced Pope with Woakes and Ali. I'd argue that'll probably be a net positive to our run totals.

Root has shown he can hold up an end ok. Yes it's not great that it feels like an acknowledgment Stokes is fragile.

I do think we now have a lot more options though. We now have raw pace, and while Ali can get whacked he is capable of wicket taking deliveries.

 

[Machiavelli]

Get where you're coming from, but a couple things.

Batting wise we've effectively replaced Pope with Woakes and Ali. I'd argue that'll probably be a net positive to our run totals.

Root has shown he can hold up an end ok. Yes it's not great that it feels like an acknowledgment Stokes is fragile.

I do think we now have a lot more options though. We now have raw pace, and while Ali can get whacked he is capable of wicket taking deliveries.

Don't disagree with any of that, although here's my but:
-- Mooen doesn't seem to score many these days, and IIRC spinners don't tend to bowl much at Headingley so how many overs is he going to get (but agree he is a 'wicket taking' bowler)

 

[Eeyore]

I'd like to see this, and also appealing for handling the ball when the batsman passes it back to the fielders. And then, when given out - we magmanimously withdraw the appeals.

Michael Vaughan may have strong opinions on this...



I think that was a legitimate appeal myself.

 

[METALMICKY]

I'd like to see this, and also appealing for handling the ball when the batsman passes it back to the fielders. And then, when given out - we magmanimously withdraw the appeals.

Not going to happen. Even at local club level everyone knows and remembers you need to ask permission to pick up the ball.

From my experience the two rules people seemed to not know or forget were needing to lift the stump out of the ground on a run out if wicket already broken. Or a keeper stumping a batsman but taking the ball in front of the stumps when it hasn't hit the batsman, some part of his body or the bat.

 

[PeterT]

Just watched Cummins being interviewed about his team’s ‘flawless’ behaviour over the last 2 years. He is citing how well they reacted to the Starc catch being overturned as evidence of that. I still just don’t get that one at all, he grounded the ball while in motion and having had it in his hands for about a second - in the history of the game that has never been a catch, but according to the flawless convicts (including Glenn McGrath in his BBC article today) there was nothing wrong with it. As there wasn’t every other time they have done it. In many ways that’s worse for me than the Bairstow incident.

But if they think the Smith one off Root was also a catch then I guess no argument is going to change their minds on that one and it’s pointless trying.

 

[Eeyore]

I will happily oblige and boo for you on Friday - Sunday. I’m hoping it will be really lively.

The other interesting dynamic is that they often sit those Australian tour groups right in the middle of the western terrace. Last time I was there , the Aussies were complaining about everyone being on full strength beer all day and stuff being thrown around that, hopefully, was just beer and beer trays. It will be very interesting to see what it’s like for this test, it’s got the potential to me more than a bit feisty in the crowd too.

Splendid ! I can't get to these games, so it's nice to know that someone is having a good old boo for me.

And we expect pictures from thee too. Although I understand if they are slightly shakier once the amber nectar has set in.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

First of the above quotes speaks towards Bairstow's way of thinking - he's clearly of a mind that the 'keeper is entitled to take advantage if the batter makes a dozy error. That stumping is a perfect example of something I raised in the other thread. If that's considered fair for a spinner, then IMO what Carey did is also fair (esp as Carey didn't pause and wait). Or if the latter is deemed unsportsmanlike, then so is what Bairstow did back then.



Your gut instinct is supported by Head's statements about something that happened in the first test:

Travis Head claims Bairstow tried to dismiss him in a similar manner

Australia batter says England wicketkeeper tried to stump him at Edgbaston, just like Bairstow was stumped at Lord's

www.espncricinfo.com

Again - the evidence here suggests that Bairstow, as a 'keeper, clearly thinks that is an acceptable mode of dismissal. At this point I have absolutely no sympathy for Bairstow the batter. You reap what you sow. He tried it twice against the Aussies in the current series, he's tried it in the past against other teams, and he's dismissed a batsmen with a "within the rules, but probably not the spirit" technique in the past. You could even consider that Carey would never have thought to try it at all if Bairstow hadn't himself tried it.

Agree. You can guarantee that Jonny Bairstow has delighted in stumping dozy batsmen since he was about 9 years old. The biter, bit.