[Cricket] The Ashes- England v Australia- 2nd Test, Lords, June 28 - July 02, 2023

[Is it PotG?]

I don't really hold the 'not walking' thing up against this incident. Many, many cricketers of all nations have said that they wouldn't walk, whereas thankfully awful instances such as yesterday are few and far between.

Sad bunch.

 

[dangull]

I think the Ashes maybe slightly more important to Australia than England due to English football season dominating 9 months of the year, and the historical history of the country being formed as a Penal colony.
They want to win more at all cost, as we saw yesterday.

 

[BadFish]

A.B.E. - Anyone But England. I thought the Scots, the Welsh and the Irish had this running through their veins but the Aussies seem to have it stamped on their forehead. During the 2003 Rugby World Cup, held in Oz, their media were all out on trying to bring England down. It didn’t matter how well England performed they always looked to have a dig about anything and everything English. It wasn’t until after the final, that we played and beat Australia, that their media finally acknowledged that the best team won. Hoo-bloody-ray!

Their whole sporting this is because deep down they are inferior to us. They have overcompensated to a huge degree to hide it.

That's what I tell them anyway.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I don't really hold the 'not walking' thing up against this incident. Many, many cricketers of all nations have said that they wouldn't walk, whereas thankfully awful instances such as yesterday are few and far between.

Sad bunch.

Quite. I think I could count the players I've seen walk in a test match in the last 20years on one hand.
It's the sort of person who claims to walk and then only does it when it suits them who's a real arse.

 

[SAC]

It's not like they don't have history here. Ian Healy was notorious for cheating.

 

[Audax]

It occurs to me this morning that all the Australians who are now very insistent on the importance of playing to the letter of the law had spent much of the day leading up to Bairstow's dismissal in a state of performative outrage that Starc hadn't been allowed to claim a clearly grounded catch, and arguing that the law should be changed.

FWIW, as an Aussie I'm happy that it wasn't a catch. I've always understood that law exactly as the umpires applied it.

 

[cirC]

Nz called back collingwood. I love the efforts to defend though.

This is worse than a Mankad. At least with a Mankad the batsman is trying to gain something. In this instance jonny scraped his crease which everyone knows means “in” and then left his crease. The umpire was not looking because he was getting a jumper out of the loop on his jacket.

Running out murali was shocking but again different.

AS above JB did scrape his foot inside the crease as per the 2 previous deliveries which short leg fielded. No attempt to run out there was there. The card had the dismissal as stumped. Really, I thought the ball was supposed to be in the keepers hands, that was a run out whilst not attempting a run after the last ball of the over.

Notice JB scrapes the crease indicating he is in.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

FWIW, as an Aussie I'm happy that it wasn't a catch. I've always understood that law exactly as the umpires applied it.

I'm delighted by your clearsighted understanding of reality.

 

[PeterT]

AS above JB did scrape his foot inside the crease as per the 2 previous deliveries which short leg fielded. No attempt to run out there was there. The card had the dismissal as stumped. Really, I thought the ball was supposed to be in the keepers hands, that was a run out whilst not attempting a runafter the last ball of the over.

Notice JB scrapes the crease indicating he is in.

It’s really interesting that the umpire review was for a run out, but he was given out stumped. Basically they didn’t have a friggin clue what was going on.

 

[BadFish]

I was there yesterday and also at Headingley 2019. It was an incredible atmosphere, shame it wasn’t the same result.

I was also there at Trent Bridge when Ian Bell was run out and reinstated by the Indians for something kind of similar.

The thing with the Australians, and there were plenty near me yesterday (I was was not quiet in my views!) is that they are a lovely people from a great country but when it comes to sport, and cricket in particular, they change and become the nastiest ‘win at all costs’ b*stards you could ever meet.

We all know it was technically out, and most know that what they did was done with no regard to the spirit of the game. They haven’t changed from the underarm incident, or sandpaper-gate. Smith, Labushagne and others have all claimed catches that were grounded. The Starc one was also embarrassing and they are trying to make that as being the same as what happened to Bairstow (it was apparently a strict interpretation of the laws that says if you ground the ball it’s not a catch!).

Then they go back to Broad not walking in a previous test, just as plenty of Aussies never did and some (like Mike Hussey) even have said very publicly that they would never walk.

I was also there at the 2007 Rugby World Cup Q/f against them in Marseilles. Absolutely full of it before the game, nowhere to be seen afterwards, like the game hadn’t even happened. Shirts all packed away, no rugby conversation allowed In the hotel.

I did manage to aim a sledge at Warner yesterday ‘you’re not even the biggest cheat in your team anymore!’ but all any of this does is entrench each camp into their own views and add to the theatre of the Ashes and its folklore. I can honestly say that I would be embarrassed to follow a team like that and I would genuinely rather lose than win in that manner. But they would say the opposite so good luck to them and I suspect they will get what they want.

I am going to 3 days at Leeds to so look forward to a very tasty and hostile atmosphere on the Western Terrace then too!

Among the friends I have spoken to about the incident it really is a mixed bag. One was very quiet and declined to comment further than 'im not giving it loads after such a decision'. One is contributing the bragging, possibly to wind me up and possibly because he is a bit of a yeah nah basic Aussie.

Hot off the press here is his comment from a second ago.

Aussies too good so far and England looking to claim the high moral ground….instead of getting the opposition out and scoring more runs, which I think is the basic aim of the game.

As I said earlier, the intent to win at almost any cost. This attitude is prevalent in Australia and I respect that. Don't really fully agree with it though.

Another mate was taken out last night by some MCC members for beers and cigars so he is enjoying the whole thing having only landed a day or so ago.

 

[amexer]

Berty23 That is plain enough. Is that in the spirit of the game ?

 

[PeterT]

The view from Cricket Australia, they have clearly been sat up all night trying to justify what they did, wrapped around a praising of Stokes to give it a slightly less than one-sided balance:

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/mat...hts-bairstow-stumping-stokes-carey/2023-07-02

 

[mikeyjh]

Berty23 That is plain enough. Is that in the spirit of the game ?

He got an edge through to the keeper and didn't walk, happens every single match, several times. So yes, this is the spirit of the game.

 

[PeterT]

The thing is they’ll probably beat us anyway. It’s just the way they do it that makes them so disliked.

 

[nicko31]

I think the Ashes maybe slightly more important to Australia than England due to English football season dominating 9 months of the year, and the historical history of the country being formed as a Penal colony.
They want to win more at all cost, as we saw yesterday.

They just hate losing at any sport its ingrained in their culture and they aren't good losers.

From my experience they like to give it the large in victory but don't like it on the other foot.

Still convinced what really screwed us on this test was not opting to bat first

 

[Audax]

Can you show me where he has attempted the same thing please? This is being said a lot. But all the examples I have seen are when labu is batting outside of his crease to get an advantage. I have not yet seen one where bairstow has waited for a batsman to think it is over then throw the ball. Yes he was dopey but let’s not make up lies to justify the actions of a team who said they had looked at themselves and felt spirit of cricket in addition to the laws is important.

Other comparisons are also laughable. Colin DeG going walkabout ie wanting a run when an appeal was underway. Again looking for advantage. A collision between batsman and bowler while taking a run. It is the batsman’s job to get out of fielders way.

How many times in this series have batsman tossed the ball back to fielders without asking? Each one could have been appealed. Are Oz saving that for Leeds?

While prior examples / similar attempts are not identical, I'd argue that the very fact he would attempt it shows he understands it is within the laws of the game.

I'd also point out that the bit I bolded in your quote is wrong. Carey didn't wait for Bairstow to leave his ground. He collected the ball and immediately released it to make the stumping attempt. Bairstow then left his ground as the ball was on its way. Would you all be complaining if the bowler had been a spinner, with the 'keeper standing up, and the ball had gone through to the 'keeper who held it, paused, and then took the bails off a split second after the batter lifts their back foot? Because I've seen that happen many times in cricket and no one has ever complained - and that includes similar situations to Bairstow's where the batter was just a bit dopey (they'd been stable, and voluntarily left their ground and were then stumped).

Anyway, as I said in my first post: I don't like it. But at the same time, as someone who plays the sport, I'm still firmly of the opinion that Bairstow needs to take responsibility for preserving his own wicket. It sucks seeing a team exploit this rule, but it was 100% within Bairstow's power to prevent it happening.

 

[PeterT]

While prior examples / similar attempts are not identical, I'd argue that the very fact he would attempt it shows he understands it is within the laws of the game.

I'd also point out that the bit I bolded in your quote is wrong. Carey didn't wait for Bairstow to leave his ground. He collected the ball and immediately released it to make the stumping attempt. Bairstow then left his ground as the ball was on its way. Would you all be complaining if the bowler had been a spinner, with the 'keeper standing up, and the ball had gone through to the 'keeper who held it, paused, and then took the bails off a split second after the batter lifts their back foot? Because I've seen that happen many times in cricket and no one has ever complained - and that includes similar situations to Bairstow's where the batter was just a bit dopey (they'd been stable, and voluntarily left their ground and were then stumped).

Anyway, as I said in my first post: I don't like it. But at the same time, as someone who plays the sport, I'm still firmly of the opinion that Bairstow needs to take responsibility for preserving his own wicket. It sucks seeing a team exploit this rule, but it was 100% within Bairstow's power to prevent it happening.

If you are only referring to the laws of the game, you are entirely missing the point. It‘s the spirit of the game that was violated here, and that is what the Australian cricket team are incapable of understanding.

The Kiwis discussing it here, by the way, it’s only 10 minutes long so there was not enough time to list all of the incidents by Australia against the Kiwis, never mind against other countries!

Did the Australian cricket team cheat, again?

The Australian cricket team are making new enemies and being accused of cheating at Lord's in the Ashes test series! Sky Sports producer and member of the alternative commentary collective James McOnie talks to Jesse.

www.rnz.co.nz

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

While prior examples / similar attempts are not identical, I'd argue that the very fact he would attempt it shows he understands it is within the laws of the game.

I'd also point out that the bit I bolded in your quote is wrong. Carey didn't wait for Bairstow to leave his ground. He collected the ball and immediately released it to make the stumping attempt. Bairstow then left his ground as the ball was on its way. Would you all be complaining if the bowler had been a spinner, with the 'keeper standing up, and the ball had gone through to the 'keeper who held it, paused, and then took the bails off a split second after the batter lifts their back foot? Because I've seen that happen many times in cricket and no one has ever complained - and that includes similar situations to Bairstow's where the batter was just a bit dopey (they'd been stable, and voluntarily left their ground and were then stumped).

Anyway, as I said in my first post: I don't like it. But at the same time, as someone who plays the sport, I'm still firmly of the opinion that Bairstow needs to take responsibility for preserving his own wicket. It sucks seeing a team exploit this rule, but it was 100% within Bairstow's power to prevent it happening.

I'll just repeat what I said a couple of pages back - both sides were doing this throughout the game.

'The thing about leaving the crease to tap the pitch and have a chat is that both teams were doing it throughout the game, repeatedly and even when the spinner was bowling and the keeper had it. I remember thinking a couple of days back that you'd never get away with that in a club game, but that it must be an understanding at this level that its OK. So I can't fault Bairstow on his own, he was doing something that everyone had been doing, and then Carey decided suddenly he was going to be a c*nt.'

 

[Simster]

He got an edge through to the keeper and didn't walk, happens every single match, several times. So yes, this is the spirit of the game.

Come on, I'm not having that. Broad visibly and audibly edged that - it wasn't even a nick. And he didn't "edge through to the keeper", it went to slip FFS. To not walk in that situation is plainly not in the spirit of the game any more than Bairstow's dismissal.

Not that yesterday's incident is any less shameful.

 

[PeterT]

I'll just repeat what I said a couple of pages back - both sides were doing this throughout the game.

'The thing about leaving the crease to tap the pitch and have a chat is that both teams were doing it throughout the game, repeatedly and even when the spinner was bowling and the keeper had it. I remember thinking a couple of days back that you'd never get away with that in a club game, but that it must be an understanding at this level that its OK. So I can't fault Bairstow on his own, he was doing something that everyone had been doing, and then Carey decided suddenly he was going to be a c*nt.'

To be fair to Carey, I blame Cummins more. He’s the leader and should be capable of more. The rest of them, not so much. But if you stick 11 blokes in there whose only intention is to win, and with people like Warner still very prominent in directing the team’s moral compass, or so it seems, then it’s no surprise that they all get dragged down to that level eventually. And that’s what seems to have happened without a strong leader.