[Cricket] The Ashes- England v Australia- 2nd Test, Lords, June 28 - July 02, 2023

[Gwylan]

Duckett should do the lottery this week. He's been dropped by Green, had an lbw overturned by a whisker, top edged between two fielders and had a catch grounded. That's some streak.

We can do this if with that sort of luck

 

[KZNSeagull]

If those 2 are still there tomorrow at 3pm then we will have half a chance. Unfortunately, we all know that one of them will be out in the first 10 minutes.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

When has that ever been a legitimate catch?

If you start letting people catch the ball like that, then the art of catching becomes a hell of a lot easier. Incredible that Starc a) took the catch like that, making no attempt to get his hand under the ball b) appealed for it as if it was a totally normal catch.

 

[KZNSeagull]

When has that ever been a legitimate catch?

If you start letting people catch the ball like that, then the art of catching becomes a hell of a lot easier. Incredible that Starc a) took the catch like that, making no attempt to get his hand under the ball b) appealed for it as if it was a totally normal catch.

Never. Am not convinced the one Smith took in the first innings was either.

 

[amexer]

Correct decision

How can that not be out. Clearly caught it well of the ground. This was always in his hand unlike some catchers who straight away throw ball in the air

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Never. Am not convinced the one Smith took in the first innings was either.

Oddly the main justification that Ponting gave on the Sky coverage that the catch was valid was that it seemed way more secure than Smith's

 

[Easy 10]

Mike Gatting only used his plan once. Malcom Marshall i think did the damage.View attachment 162954

"Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face"

- Mike Tyson

 

[KZNSeagull]

How can that not be out. Clearly caught it well of the ground. This was always in his hand unlike some catchers who straight away throw ball in the air

The act of catching the ball had not finished - the ball may have been dislodged when his arm hit the ground.

 

[Bodian]

How can that not be out. Clearly caught it well of the ground. This was always in his hand unlike some catchers who straight away throw ball in the air

It's not about length of time, but being 'in control'. Fielders who throw the ball in the air already (by definition as they are able to throw it) have the ball and themselves under control.

 

[nwgull]

England are playing like a bunch of clowns. Stokes is trying to rewrite the unwritten rules of cricket - don't declare a first innings and don't win the toss and insert your opponents.
He's trying to become some sort of legend but is totally ficking it up.
I predict an Australian whitewash.

I don’t think it’ll be a whitewash. The teams are too well matches in terms of ability. The difference in both tests has been poor decision making by England when batting.

In the first test it was a declaration that didn’t pay off and then overly aggressive batting against Lyon. In this test we were in a commanding position at 190-1 and could and should have got 450+ but kept trying to take on the short ball instead of taking easy 3-4 singles an over with field spread.

 

[Eeyore]

Kid on the field collecting the ball. He'd be doing time for that now.

Although it was very, very irritating back then. There were even grown adults doing it. Sometimes the ball wouldn't even have made it to the boundary. The final moments in a Lords final were always a problem for players as there were hundreds waiting to come on and fight for the stumps. Players potentially getting injured.

I'm glad it's like it is now. I think there was a problem in an Ashes match and at that point the authorities started putting their foot down.

 

[The Wizard]

How can that not be out. Clearly caught it well off the ground. This was always in his hand unlike some catchers who straight away throw ball in the air

Think about how many times people attempt amazing catches and it pops out either when they land or in mid air, you can’t then say that’s a legitimate catch, he’s used the ground to stabilise his catching hand whilst clearly pushing the ball into the ground.

Until you have full control of your body and ball it’s not a legitimate catch, never has been, all he had to was clasp his hands together, it’s Starcs mistake as he made that catch then fluffed it.

 

[dazzer6666]

Think about how many times people attempt amazing catches and it pops out either when they land or in mid air, you can’t then say that’s a legitimate catch, he’s used the ground to stabilise his catching hand whilst clearly pushing the ball into the ground.

Until you have full control of your body and ball it’s not a legitimate catch, never has been, all he had to was clasp his hands together, it’s Starcs mistake as he made that catch then fluffed it.

100% this imo - you haven’t completed the catch until you have full control over your movements, so sliding, mid dive or whatever is still part of the act of catching. He slid the ball along the floor as he stabilised himself.

 

[indy3050]

Why declare when your flying with over 4 days of a test to play?

I’ve read respected cricket writers view of this, during that test, none enamoured to say the least. Calmly explaining why it was wrong.

I’ve not read further this but Stokes had said he didn’t want to see Jimmy with the bat, he wanted to see him with the new ball, bowling at the Aussie openers. He had 20 minutes to try and take a wicket, maybe two, and he took a punt. I’ve already said this on this thread and I’ll say it again. I hope he does it again! It didn’t work on that occasion. Now… he HAS to abandon the ‘Bazball’ approach as he needs to keep his team in an ashes series. The draw will keep it at 1-0 with 3 to go. I admire his scattergun approach but now, right now, is not the time.

 

[warmleyseagull]

It's not about length of time, but being 'in control'. Fielders who throw the ball in the air already (by definition as they are able to throw it) have the ball and themselves under control.

View attachment 162962

“The act of making the catch shall start from the time when the ball in flight comes into contact with some part of a fielder’s person other than a protective helmet, and shall end when a fielder obtains complete control both over the ball and over his own movement.” Starc did not have control of his own movement.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I thought that was not out

 

[ManOfSussex]

I always remember Starc celebrating at The Oval 10 years ago when the umpires ended the game for bad light and it finished a draw meaning Australia had lost The Ashes 3-0 and thinking what a special kind of ****head he was. 10 years later nothings changed.

 

[dazzer6666]

I’ve not read further this but Stokes had said he didn’t want to see Jimmy with the bat, he wanted to see him with the new ball, bowling at the Aussie openers. He had 20 minutes to try and take a wicket, maybe two, and he took a punt. I’ve already said this on this thread and I’ll say it again. I hope he does it again! It didn’t work on that occasion. Now… he HAS to abandon the ‘Bazball’ approach as he needs to keep his team in an ashes series. The draw will keep it at 1-0 with 3 to go. I admire his scattergun approach but now, right now, is not the time.

Unless it rains there’s really no chance of a draw….simply can’t see us staying in all day and not scoring 257 (less than 3 an over with Lyon out of action) as essentially it’s down to Pope, Stokes and Bairstow.

Draw is 60/1 with the bookies, Convicts 1/6 and England 11/2.

 

[Si Gull]

Unless it rains there’s really no chance of a draw….simply can’t see us staying in all day and not scoring 257 (less than 3 an over with Lyon out of action) as essentially it’s down to Pope, Stokes and Bairstow.

Draw is 60/1 with the bookies, Convicts 1/6 and England 11/2.

If it's down to Pope I'd say England have no chance........

 

[indy3050]

Unless it rains there’s really no chance of a draw….simply can’t see us staying in all day and not scoring 257 (less than 3 an over with Lyon out of action) as essentially it’s down to Pope, Stokes and Bairstow.

Draw is 60/1 with the bookies, Convicts 1/6 and England 11/2.

I know. My point was that England really can’t go out and smash sixes everywhere this time. I was trying to highlight that Bazball, which I like, isn’t the way forward here. Stokes says he won’t change his approach but, in my opinion, he doesn’t have a choice. You can not gift the Aussies a 2-0 lead when you have a TINY chance of keeping it at 1-0.