The Amex ticketing process - a chat with Paul Barber

[Bob!]

I had a chance to speak to Paul Barber last night about the ticket sales process today and he openly shared his frustrations with me. Frustrations of the process that the club are working within, and frustrations at some of the more direct criticism that is levelled against the club on this subject. The key points discussed are below, some of which were covered in Paul's email to NSCer Giraffe which has already been published here.

- The club do not hold back cheap tickets to try and force people into buying more expensive seats. They do, however, intentionally release blocks in sequence for reasons of operational efficiency. Any block that has had even one ticket sold has to be fully staffed and this costs. As such the club will only release a new block when earlier block(s) are close to full. This approach clearly makes sense.
- There are a LARGE number of tickets that are reserved club sponsors and partners as well as to the Football League and club scouts etc. These tickets are paid for, in the same way any fan pays for a ticket but, on occasion, they go unused. The club won't know this in advance - the first they'll know is when club officials see the empty seats as we do. However, the club are working with these groups to have seats returned to the club for re-sale as quickly as possible when it is known that they won't be used. It is when this return takes place that we see extra tickets become available.

- Probably most significantly, the ticketing system is still not at a level, technically, that the club are happy with. Manual intervention is often required to keep things ticking along. The club have put processes in place to provide greater monitoring so that remedial actions can be taken. The club signed a long term agreement with its ticket service provider prior to the Amex opening and has been working closely with the supplier ever since to improve the quality of the service provided to supporters. This is an ongoing process and, whilst there have been improvements in the last couple of seasons, Paul and his team readily accept that, like most ticketing platforms, it is not a perfect system.

The single line that stuck with me though, was when Paul said he wanted to sell as many tickets as he can so Oscar has spending money in January (if needed). Amen to that.

Ultimately, it was a constructive discussion which left me in no doubt that the club are trying very hard to achieve what we all want - as many bums on seats as possible.

So... It seems that people on NSC are aware before the club are that the system has not kicked in to release the next block when a block only has odd tickets left.

Is there somewhere that individuals can feed back to that will result in the club then becoming aware of the situation, and putting a further block on sale (or a message on the ticket site)?

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I'll also add that this week is the first time I've seen both Paul Barber and Tony Bloom at work and they're a mightily impressive double act. I can't imagine many clubs at our level have such quality at the top, not to mention Bloom's fervent support for the club too. The Albion is in very good hands.

Amen to that brother.

 

[Giraffe]

All sounds good.

A few things strike me, as I think we know there were some bad decisions taken when we moved into the AMEX. Classic small company people making big company decisions. Being "premier league ready" would not I suspect have meant we should be signing a long term contract with a ticketing system that can't cope with certain aspects very well. Equally we may not have negotiated the best deal with sponsors regarding seat allocations.

I suspect neither of these things would have happened if Paul Barber had been in charge at the time. But equally had these and other things not happened then we may not have needed or ended up with Paul Barber.

But good to see he is sorting things out. I have to say I am doing a near 180 degree u-turn on the man. I think he was a very necessary appointment for our club, and we can only progress further with this kind of management.

 

[El Presidente]

It's Christmas. Bozza has got his Albion mojo back. Paul Barber has a richly merited (semi) official love-in thread. Three points on Saturday and it will be peace on earth and all will be truly well with the world!

That GUARANTEES 2-0 to Town on Saturday then

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's Christmas. Bozza has got his Albion mojo back. Paul Barber has a richly merited (semi) official love-in thread. Three points on Saturday and it will be peace on earth and all will be truly well with the world!

Yay. All I want for Xmas is a Paul Barber Puffa-jacket!

 

[Grombleton]

The man has his detractors and the decisions he has made may not be popular (i've heard some interesting stories, as have many others no doubt) but from the outside he genuinely does seem to be doing his job for the club - not just because it's his job, but it seems that he does have an affection for the club and to see it do well.

As Bozza said - we're mightily lucky to have two experienced and committed men at the helm.

 

[Hastings gull]

The man has his detractors and the decisions he has made may not be popular (i've heard some interesting stories, as have many others no doubt) but from the outside he genuinely does seem to be doing his job for the club - not just because it's his job, but it seems that he does have an affection for the club and to see it do well.

As Bozza said - we're mightily lucky to have two experienced and committed men at the helm.

I fully agree and it must be hard keeping everyone happy, and also frustrating when he reads accusations from fans, when it is not warranted. The solution to this is communication, and meeting the fans, as he does, can only be of benefit to all concerned. On this topic, I am rather surprised that this is the first time that I have read such a detailed defence of club policy in response to the suspicion that the club is holding cheaper tickets back. Of course, this denial may already have been issued on a formal basis and I missed it, but judging from other comments here, I am not alone in this. Naturally, PB cannot be expected to go public after every complaint, some of which might be quite spurious, but this goes to the heart of the club's relationship with its fans and could perhaps have been highlighted much earlier, possibly in his otherwise excellent programme notes.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Bozza, excuse me for being a bit slow this morning but was this conversation solely relating to Cup Tickets?

If not then what he says is total balls as I would bet a shit load of money that EVERY block has season ticket holders in anyway and therefore, by that logic, EVERY block will need to be fully staffed anyway.

Or am I missing something.

I'd imagine that the blocks which may be used for away fans if they take their full allocation wouldn't have any ST holders in otherwise they would have to be moved if the blocks were needed for them. I'd say that unless the demand was there, these would be the areas which are left til last or not put on sale at all due to staffing costs if the blocks do return to potential home fan areas.

 

[Triggaaar]

Ultimately, it was a constructive discussion which left me in no doubt that the club are trying very hard to achieve what we all want - as many bums on seats as possible.

PB really seems to be taking our voice into account. He's still wrong about the safe standing, but that aside, I appreciate what he's doing for us.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

All sounds good.

A few things strike me, as I think we know there were some bad decisions taken when we moved into the AMEX. Classic small company people making big company decisions. Being "premier league ready" would not I suspect have meant we should be signing a long term contract with a ticketing system that can't cope with certain aspects very well. Equally we may not have negotiated the best deal with sponsors regarding seat allocations.

I suspect neither of these things would have happened if Paul Barber had been in charge at the time. But equally had these and other things not happened then we may not have needed or ended up with Paul Barber.

But good to see he is sorting things out. I have to say I am doing a near 180 degree u-turn on the man. I think he was a very necessary appointment for our club, and we can only progress further with this kind of management.

Am I right in thinking the ticketing system is also used by several clubs in the Premier League ? When it was introduced I seem to recall that there were several options for the upgrading or downgrading of the software package according to usage levels and it could be made bespoke to suit the needs of the club. If there are "partners" of the club with an allocation set aside for each home game which are not used why can't they be persuaded to release them as comps instead of the seats remaining empty ?

 

[Bodian]

Would it be better if we actually reported the 'bums on seats' attendance rather than the 'tickets sold' attendance. Then, if the club, and we, want to continue advertising our high attendances, there would be an even greater incentive to deal with returns and no shows? Maybe have a dual reporting system that shows actual / theoretical attendance?

 

[rippleman]

Would it be better if we actually reported the 'bums on seats' attendance rather than the 'tickets sold' attendance. Then, if the club, and we, want to continue advertising our high attendances, there would be an even greater incentive to deal with returns and no shows? Maybe have a dual reporting system that shows actual / theoretical attendance?

Sadly, we have been here before!

Artificially inflating the attendance figure (by substituting the number of tickets sold) is far more attractive from a marketing perspective. To tell a prospective advertiser that their advert will be seen by 30K is better, and potentially more lucrative, than telling them that 22K will see it.

So we know that the "attendance" figure as announced at games is a complete distortion as it does not represent those "in attendance".........but merely reflects the number of tickets sold. But I suspect that it is a deliberate ploy on the part of the club to make the numbers look more attractive to sponsors and advertisers.

So if sponsor etc seats are not taken up and are subsequently re-sold, would that count as 2 in the "attendance" figure?

I'd rather the club was at least straight up with the numbers - either way. Either announce the attendance figure as those actually "in attendance" or announce the figure as "tickets sold". Surely it can't be that difficult...

 

[Smirko]

Makes you feel appreciative of who we have at the top rather than foreign owners who treat the club as personal plaything and seem to think they know all about running a football (soccer) club from watching a few video's. Recent event's at Cardiff put this into perspective very well. God bless TB/PB!

 

[TSB]

That GUARANTEES 2-0 to Town on Saturday then

We haven't failed to score at home yet. *Cough* Right that should guarantee a 0-defeat. Everyone get your money on it.

 

[SeagullSongs]

We haven't failed to score at home yet. *Cough* Right that should guarantee a 0-defeat. Everyone get your money on it.

I've gone for 0-1 on the score predictor.

Were loose

 

[enterprise]

I had a chance to speak to Paul Barber last night about the ticket sales process today and he openly shared his frustrations with me. Frustrations of the process that the club are working within, and frustrations at some of the more direct criticism that is levelled against the club on this subject. The key points discussed are below, some of which were covered in Paul's email to NSCer Giraffe which has already been published here.

- The club do not hold back cheap tickets to try and force people into buying more expensive seats. They do, however, intentionally release blocks in sequence for reasons of operational efficiency. Any block that has had even one ticket sold has to be fully staffed and this costs. As such the club will only release a new block when earlier block(s) are close to full. This approach clearly makes sense.

- There are a LARGE number of tickets that are reserved club sponsors and partners as well as to the Football League and club scouts etc. These tickets are paid for, in the same way any fan pays for a ticket but, on occasion, they go unused. The club won't know this in advance - the first they'll know is when club officials see the empty seats as we do. However, the club are working with these groups to have seats returned to the club for re-sale as quickly as possible when it is known that they won't be used. It is when this return takes place that we see extra tickets become available.

- Probably most significantly, the ticketing system is still not at a level, technically, that the club are happy with. Manual intervention is often required to keep things ticking along. The club have put processes in place to provide greater monitoring so that remedial actions can be taken. The club signed a long term agreement with its ticket service provider prior to the Amex opening and has been working closely with the supplier ever since to improve the quality of the service provided to supporters. This is an ongoing process and, whilst there have been improvements in the last couple of seasons, Paul and his team readily accept that, like most ticketing platforms, it is not a perfect system.

The single line that stuck with me though, was when Paul said he wanted to sell as many tickets as he can so Oscar has spending money in January (if needed). Amen to that.

Ultimately, it was a constructive discussion which left me in no doubt that the club are trying very hard to achieve what we all want - as many bums on seats as possible.

Thanks for the update. The above makes total sense in terms of operational delivery and costs. I think that one of the things that has frustrated me and others in the past has been the lack of ability to get 4-6 tickets or more in a row when it is clear that there will be space come the day. There's been a couple of occasions when I have wanted to move my season ticket with a few mates so that we can take the kids along (aged 4 to 6 and to early for a season ticket but enjoy a few games per season. With the block sale process I have been told that such an amount of tickets won't be available and then I turn up and see available space, frustrating for me and lost revenue for the club.

On the PB topic it's great to finally read a thread full of positive comments. I think he's doing a fantastic job and the futures bright with crowds holding up, the training ground around the corner and results improving as players return to the fold. Now that the team have got within touching distance of the play off spots I wonder how much money OG will have to spend in Jan. I'm of the opinion that the relative lack of summer activity had a fair amount to do with the potential of Gus taking us to the cleaners as the club hadn't reached a compromise agreement. With that all behind us, the teams improved form and OG with some UK experience now I wonder what there is in the pot? Maybe I'm being a little hopeful but from TB's letter received today it's clear that the plan had been to cut player budget by 6% yoy even before Gus scenario but now neither scenario is in the way!

 

[B.W.]

Thanks for the update. The above makes total sense in terms of operational delivery and costs. I think that one of the things that has frustrated me and others in the past has been the lack of ability to get 4-6 tickets or more in a row when it is clear that there will be space come the day. There's been a couple of occasions when I have wanted to move my season ticket with a few mates so that we can take the kids along (aged 4 to 6 and to early for a season ticket but enjoy a few games per season. With the block sale process I have been told that such an amount of tickets won't be available and then I turn up and see available space, frustrating for me and lost revenue for the club.

On the PB topic it's great to finally read a thread full of positive comments. I think he's doing a fantastic job and the futures bright with crowds holding up, the training ground around the corner and results improving as players return to the fold. Now that the team have got within touching distance of the play off spots I wonder how much money OG will have to spend in Jan. I'm of the opinion that the relative lack of summer activity had a fair amount to do with the potential of Gus taking us to the cleaners as the club hadn't reached a compromise agreement. With that all behind us, the teams improved form and OG with some UK experience now I wonder what there is in the pot? Maybe I'm being a little hopeful but from TB's letter received today it's clear that the plan had been to cut player budget by 6% yoy even before Gus scenario but now neither scenario is in the way!

Loving the optimism. Here's hoping TB gives Oscar the money to go for it.

 

[Machiavelli]

Rather than put my experiences down to some Machiavellian plot, I've assumed that some individuals "get" customer service and what PB is trying to do, and others simply don't (or won't). I've gone into writing about this with PB and received timely, helpful, professional and occasionally humourous responses.

I've been found out now

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I'm constantly amazed how much grief the always available, open, concise and committed Paul Barber gets.
Sure Tony is untouchable, but he's earned (spent) that right.

Running this huge loss making business (for that is what it is) within the parameters set down by Tony, and the League must be almost impossible.

Look around the league, who is in a better position than the Albion? and we're losing £8m.

It would seem he has to count every penny, while juggling everybodys needs and considering the opinions of 30k+ people, who are all selfish pillocks that want different things.
Then to cap it all the goons get all titsy because they weren't consulted over the cycling top

One of the many reasons Paul is where he is and I'm merely a postman, is because I wouldn't have lasted 24 hours in his job without screaming 'GO F#@K YOURSELF' because all my decisions are constantly questioned and doubted.

Good post!

Barber IN!

 

[Cheshire Cat]

So should I want to just turn up on spec on the day at 2.45pm and pay on the gate, am I able to do that?


(not that I am actually going to, as I live much too far away and have other things to do)