The Amex ticketing process - a chat with Paul Barber

[Bozza]

I had a chance to speak to Paul Barber last night about the ticket sales process today and he openly shared his frustrations with me. Frustrations of the process that the club are working within, and frustrations at some of the more direct criticism that is levelled against the club on this subject. The key points discussed are below, some of which were covered in Paul's email to NSCer Giraffe which has already been published here.

- The club do not hold back cheap tickets to try and force people into buying more expensive seats. They do, however, intentionally release blocks in sequence for reasons of operational efficiency. Any block that has had even one ticket sold has to be fully staffed and this costs. As such the club will only release a new block when earlier block(s) are close to full. This approach clearly makes sense.

- There are a LARGE number of tickets that are reserved club sponsors and partners as well as to the Football League and club scouts etc. These tickets are paid for, in the same way any fan pays for a ticket but, on occasion, they go unused. The club won't know this in advance - the first they'll know is when club officials see the empty seats as we do. However, the club are working with these groups to have seats returned to the club for re-sale as quickly as possible when it is known that they won't be used. It is when this return takes place that we see extra tickets become available.

- Probably most significantly, the ticketing system is still not at a level, technically, that the club are happy with. Manual intervention is often required to keep things ticking along. The club have put processes in place to provide greater monitoring so that remedial actions can be taken. The club signed a long term agreement with its ticket service provider prior to the Amex opening and has been working closely with the supplier ever since to improve the quality of the service provided to supporters. This is an ongoing process and, whilst there have been improvements in the last couple of seasons, Paul and his team readily accept that, like most ticketing platforms, it is not a perfect system.

The single line that stuck with me though, was when Paul said he wanted to sell as many tickets as he can so Oscar has spending money in January (if needed). Amen to that.

Ultimately, it was a constructive discussion which left me in no doubt that the club are trying very hard to achieve what we all want - as many bums on seats as possible.

 

[Napper]

Good work .

Not sure what the new process could be but barber has been brilliant of late .

Say s Lot about him , some fair , some unfair but if we have to have someone in to maximise revenues and do the unpopular work then the best you can ask for is someone who communicates with fans , personable and seems to genuinely have clubs interest at heart .

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I had a chance to speak to Paul Barber last night about the ticket sales process today and he openly shared his frustrations with me. Frustrations of the process that the club are working within, and frustrations at some of the more direct criticism that is levelled against the club on this subject. The key points discussed are below, some of which were covered in Paul's email to NSCer Giraffe which has already been published here.

- The club do not hold back cheap tickets to try and force people into buying more expensive seats. They do, however, intentionally release blocks in sequence for reasons of operational efficiency. Any block that has had even one ticket sold has to be fully staffed and this costs. As such the club will only release a new block when earlier block(s) are close to full. This approach clearly makes sense.

- There are a LARGE number of tickets that are reserved club sponsors and partners as well as to the Football League and club scouts etc. These tickets are paid for, in the same way any fan pays for a ticket but, on occasion, they go unused. The club won't know this in advance - the first they'll know is when club officials see the empty seats as we do. However, the club are working with these groups to have seats returned to the club for re-sale as quickly as possible when it is known that they won't be used. It is when this return takes place that we see extra tickets become available.

- Probably most significantly, the ticketing system is still not at a level, technically, that the club are happy with. Manual intervention is often required to keep things ticking along. The club have put processes in place to provide greater monitoring so that remedial actions can be taken. The club signed a long term agreement with its ticket service provider prior to the Amex opening and has been working closely with the supplier ever since to improve the quality of the service provided to supporters. This is an ongoing process and, whilst there have been improvements in the last couple of seasons, Paul and his team readily accept that, like most ticketing platforms, it is not a perfect system.

The single line that stuck with me though, was when Paul said he wanted to sell as many tickets as he can so Oscar has spending money in January (if needed). Amen to that.

Ultimately, it was a constructive discussion which left me in no doubt that the club are trying very hard to achieve what we all want - as many bums on seats as possible.

Do conversations such as this mean you're getting/have got your Albion Mojo back, Bozza?

 

[Bozza]

Do conversations such as this mean you're getting/have got your Albion Mojo back, Bozza?

I'm not sure it's directly indicative of that, but I have, yes. I'm bloody excited about tomorrow's game and I'm sure I'll be waking up early with that "kid at Christmas" feeling. I'm told ticket sales are going very well and it should be a sizeable home crowd. With Christmas cheer in abundance, it should make for a great atmosphere. Let's hope the team don't "do a Barnsley".

I'll also add that this week is the first time I've seen both Paul Barber and Tony Bloom at work and they're a mightily impressive double act. I can't imagine many clubs at our level have such quality at the top, not to mention Bloom's fervent support for the club too. The Albion is in very good hands.

 

[amexee]

There has never been a game as far as I am aware when the first block in the south stand (the cheap seats) are not made available, eventually. There seems to be no good reason why these cannot go on sale immediately.

 

[maltaseagull]

Good work .

Not sure what the new process could be but barber has been brilliant of late .

Say s Lot about him , some fair , some unfair but if we have to have someone in to maximise revenues and do the unpopular work then the best you can ask for is someone who communicates with fans , personable and seems to genuinely have clubs interest at heart .

Agree. We are very fortunate to have an owner who loves the club but is happy to let highly qualified professionals run it (Unlike Cardiff!). Paul Barber does a great job especially in his communications with supporters.

 

[Bozza]

There has never been a game as far as I am aware when the first block in the south stand (the cheap seats) are not made available, eventually. There seems to be no good reason why these cannot go on sale immediately.

I was told that, unless sold out, there should always be seats available at all price points. Paul told me himself that the club are well aware that some people may not be able to afford a more expensive seat and selling a cheaper seat is considerably better than selling no seat at all.

If there are not, then it may be indicative of a process failing. It won't be because the club are trying to force people to spend more.

 

[El Presidente]

If there are not, then it may be indicative of a process failing. It won't be because the club are trying to force people to spend more.

I agree that some of the more extreme comments on NSC about the ticketing and pricing policy are enough to drive anyone into the arms of a shrink, but there is a case for saying that the price points are still on the high side for single match tickets.

PB should be applauded for the Reading decision, it will be intriguing to see how fans respond, although I think we should view the attendance in the context of similar matches taking place in the third round that weekend rather than against our league support which is impacted upon by the still amazing ST sales.

Sunderland had less than 21,000 on Tuesday for a cup quarter final against Chelsea, evidence of how a club can get pricing wrong.

 

[El Presidente]

If there are not, then it may be indicative of a process failing. It won't be because the club are trying to force people to spend more.

I agree that some of the more extreme comments on NSC about the ticketing and pricing policy are enough to drive anyone into the arms of a shrink, but there is a case for saying that the price points are still on the high side for single match tickets.

PB should be applauded for the Reading decision, it will be intriguing to see how fans respond, although I think we should view the attendance in the context of similar matches taking place in the third round that weekend rather than against our league support which is impacted upon by the still amazing ST sales.

Sunderland had less than 21,000 on Tuesday for a cup quarter final against Chelsea, evidence of how a club can get pricing wrong.

 

[Goldstone1976]

.........- There are a LARGE number of tickets that are reserved club sponsors and partners as well as to the Football League and club scouts etc. These tickets are paid for, in the same way any fan pays for a ticket but, on occasion, they go unused. The club won't know this in advance - the first they'll know is when club officials see the empty seats as we do. However, the club are working with these groups to have seats returned to the club for re-sale as quickly as possible when it is known that they won't be used. It is when this return takes place that we see extra tickets become available.......

.............The single line that stuck with me though, was when Paul said he wanted to sell as many tickets as he can so Oscar has spending money in January (if needed). Amen to that.

Ultimately, it was a constructive discussion which left me in no doubt that the club are trying very hard to achieve what we all want - as many bums on seats as possible.

Thanks, Bozza. A very useful input.

If you meant the sentence I've emboldened the club has less incentive to get as many bums on seats as the fans do, since they have already collected the revenue for those seats, empty or not. Indeed, the club has a considerable amount of work to do to collect probably less revenue overall, since they will have to hassle the sponsors (et al) to return unused seats, put them back on the system (possibly manually, as you infer), refund the sponsor (et al) the value of the seats they've returned, allocate some of them (very unlikely to be all of them for most games) to fans and then post them out in small batches to those fans (postage etc).

I guess it might be the case that the club do not refund the sponsors (et al) for the cost of returned tickets, which would mean that the club could collect double revenue on those seats that are subsequently sold to fans, which would be fair enough, but would also mean that the sponsors (et al) have absolutely no incentive to ever return tickets.

Can you provide any clarification?

Like El Pres, I am appalled at some of the comments on NSC about this and some other issues. There is a sizeable minority of people who view the club, and PB in particular, with deep mistrust. A mistrust that is, imo, entirely misplaced. Of course, fans of BHA have more right than most to view the Board with mistrust, but come on guys, it is hard to see how anyone could be doing more to be communicating with us in an open and timely way.

That's not to say everything at the club is right. I have had personal experience of woeful admin inefficiencies and extremely poor customer service this year, along with some exemplary service too. Rather than put my experiences down to some Machiavellian plot, I've assumed that some individuals "get" customer service and what PB is trying to do, and others simply don't (or won't). I've gone into writing about this with PB and received timely, helpful, professional and occasionally humourous responses.

Unless and until I have evidence to the contrary, I will continue to act in the belief that PB is doing a really good job in tough circumstances as he tries to put the people and processes in place to adequately service a business that is 4x the size it was three years ago.

 

[Bozza]

Apologies - I wasn't very clear in what I wrote there. I'll try again...

A number of parties have options on tickets because of their relationship with the club. When they use them, they pay for them. If they don't use them, they are returned to the club for general sale. The club are trying to ensure that the return process happens as early as is practical.

However, PB did also say some partner tickets are paid for and then go unused. The club has collected ticket revenue but, in the same way there are no-show season ticket holders, the seats remain empty for a game. Paul did mention, but not name, one particular group of seats that this happens to from time to time. The seats are highly visible from his own vantage point and he described the dismay he feels as he knows that Monday morning will bring a series of "why weren't those seats put on sale?" questions. The fact is they were sold but not occupied.

 

[Stat Brother]

I'll also add that this week is the first time I've seen both Paul Barber and Tony Bloom at work and they're a mightily impressive double act. I can't imagine many clubs at our level have such quality at the top, not to mention Bloom's fervent support for the club too. The Albion is in very good hands.

I'm constantly amazed how much grief the always available, open, concise and committed Paul Barber gets.
Sure Tony is untouchable, but he's earned (spent) that right.

Running this huge loss making business (for that is what it is) within the parameters set down by Tony, and the League must be almost impossible.

Look around the league, who is in a better position than the Albion? and we're losing £8m.

It would seem he has to count every penny, while juggling everybodys needs and considering the opinions of 30k+ people, who are all selfish pillocks that want different things.
Then to cap it all the goons get all titsy because they weren't consulted over the cycling top

One of the many reasons Paul is where he is and I'm merely a postman, is because I wouldn't have lasted 24 hours in his job without screaming 'GO F#@K YOURSELF' because all my decisions are constantly questioned and doubted.

 

[Stat Brother]

Paul did mention, but not name, one particular group of seats that this happens to from time to time. The seats are highly visible from his own vantage point and he described the dismay he feels as he knows that Monday morning will bring a series of "why weren't those seats put on sale?" questions. The fact is they were sold but not occupied.

That'll be WSL north, inline with the 6 yard box.

It sticks out like a massive sore thumb.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Apologies - I wasn't very clear in what I wrote there. I'll try again...

A number of parties have options on tickets because of their relationship with the club. When they use them, they pay for them. If they don't use them, they are returned to the club for general sale. The club are trying to ensure that the return process happens as early as is practical.

However, PB did also say some partner tickets are paid for and then go unused. The club has collected ticket revenue but, in the same way there are no-show season ticket holders, the seats rain empty for a game. Paul did mention, but not name, one particular group of seats that this happens to from time to time. The seats are highly visible from his own vantage point and he described the dismay he feels as he knows that Monday morning will bring a series of "why weren't those seats put on sale?" questions. The fact is they were sold but not occupied.

Ah, OK. Then the club's and fans' interests are indeed perfectly aligned.

Nice job, Bozza - thanks.

BTW, glad you've got your mojo back! If you redid the "mojo" thread you did a while back, I's score higher too!

 

[Hillian1]

Bozza, excuse me for being a bit slow this morning but was this conversation solely relating to Cup Tickets?

If not then what he says is total balls as I would bet a shit load of money that EVERY block has season ticket holders in anyway and therefore, by that logic, EVERY block will need to be fully staffed anyway.

Or am I missing something.

 

[Justice]

PB must be sick of the all the whinging emails. 'Someone bumped into me in Dicks' email PB, 'My pie wasn't served at exactly the correct temperature' email to PB, 'Ticket staff failed to call me sir' email swiftly off to PB etc etc Its football you go, abuse the ref for 90mins, enjoy the game (hopefully) and piss off home. I thought you lot didn't want to be customers?

 

[Stat Brother]

PB must be sick of the all the whinging emails. 'Someone bumped into me in Dicks' email PB, 'My pie wasn't served at exactly the correct temperature' email to PB, 'Ticket staff failed to call me sir' email swiftly off to PB etc etc Its football you go, abuse the ref for 90mins, enjoy the game (hopefully) and piss off home. I thought you lot didn't want to be customers?

 

[Bozza]

Bozza, excuse me for being a bit slow this morning but was this conversation solely relating to Cup Tickets?

If not then what he says is total balls as I would bet a shit load of money that EVERY block has season ticket holders in anyway and therefore, by that logic, EVERY block will need to be fully staffed anyway.

Or am I missing something.

No, ticketing generally.

I assumed it related to the blocks in the South being sold one by one.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Thanks for posting that conversation..totally off topic when will you be changing the location on your profile

 

[severnside gull]

It's Christmas. Bozza has got his Albion mojo back. Paul Barber has a richly merited (semi) official love-in thread. Three points on Saturday and it will be peace on earth and all will be truly well with the world!