[Albion] The Alzate error

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

The blame lies solely with Alzate for that. If you can’t control and pass a ball with 6 yards of space (even if you have to go back to Ryan who then goes long) then you shouldn’t be playing CM for a PL side.

What if you can't control and pass the ball with 6 yards of space once in 200 attempts? Or 300? You seem to be ignoring the 100s of times he got this right. He's a very fine young player, playing for a manager who doesn't jump on mistakes like an hysterical child.

 

[Stat Brother]

What if you can't control and pass the ball with 6 yards of space once in 200 attempts? Or 300? You seem to be ignoring the 100s of times he got this right. He's a very fine young player, playing for a manager who doesn't jump on mistakes like an hysterical child unlike...





...

You missed a bit.

 

[MJsGhost]

Genuine question - has GP really said that we set out to play “high risk football”?

https://www.sussexlive.co.uk/sport/...s/graham-potter-press-conference-live-4309538

It goes with the territory when you have a philosophy like Potter's, and he said all blame should lie with him. Asked to explain why he took responsibility, he said: "Because the strategy or the idea to play what we asked the players to do means that there’s a chance where mistakes happen.

"We won’t be the last team to go through that. The important thing is how teams react. We know how hard it is against teams like Liverpool. They punish you if you make a mistake."​

^ This was after the Liverpool home game with a similar error from Propper.

It's not exactly saying that we set out to play high-risk football, but does acknowledge that there is an inherent risk to playing out from the back the way they are asked and might be where the "high risk football" idea comes from.

I really like Potter's approach to mistakes & fear of making them - he'll be making sure Alzate doesn't dwell on it, or abandon the approach just because it didn't work on this occasion. Learn from it, yes (maybe take the boot out of the box before attempting the pass next time), but don't be paralysed by fear of making a mistake next time.

Smarter people than me have analysed the risks & rewards of playing out like this and concluded that it's worth it. Conceding a goal like that stands out because there's a direct and obvious link to losing the ball there. Speculative long balls from the 'keeper might result in conceding more goals (more often than not gives the ball away & invites pressure back on), but it's harder to pin that down specifically as the cause of the goal because more things have happened between the failed pass and the goal.

Mind you, knowing when to just knock it long should help make it less predictable and keep the oppo guessing...

 

[Weststander]

https://www.sussexlive.co.uk/sport/...s/graham-potter-press-conference-live-4309538

It goes with the territory when you have a philosophy like Potter's, and he said all blame should lie with him. Asked to explain why he took responsibility, he said: "Because the strategy or the idea to play what we asked the players to do means that there’s a chance where mistakes happen.

"We won’t be the last team to go through that. The important thing is how teams react. We know how hard it is against teams like Liverpool. They punish you if you make a mistake."​

^ This was after the Liverpool home game with a similar error from Propper.

It's not exactly saying that we set out to play high-risk football, but does acknowledge that there is an inherent risk to playing out from the back the way they are asked and might be where the "high risk football" idea comes from.

I really like Potter's approach to mistakes & fear of making them - he'll be making sure Alzate doesn't dwell on it, or abandon the approach just because it didn't work on this occasion. Learn from it, yes (maybe take the boot out of the box before attempting the pass next time), but don't be paralysed by fear of making a mistake next time.

Smarter people than me have analysed the risks & rewards of playing out like this and concluded that it's worth it. Conceding a goal like that stands out because there's a direct and obvious link to losing the ball there. Speculative long balls from the 'keeper might result in conceding more goals (more often than not gives the ball away & invites pressure back on), but it's harder to pin that down specifically as the cause of the goal because more things have happened between the failed pass and the goal.

Mind you, knowing when to just knock it long should help make it less predictable and keep the oppo guessing...

Agreed.

It’s not by design “high risk“.

Instead, trading some defensive surety (eg CH’s mass defence) for more potency as a creative force.

 

[Wardy's twin]

surely the question was whether Ryan needed to foul their player for the penalty.

If Dunk and Maupay take their chances which were bigger mistakes then we might have got a better result.

 

[MJsGhost]

Agreed.

It’s not by design “high risk“.

Instead, trading some defensive surety (eg CH’s mass defence) for more potency as a creative force.

Yup

 

[One Love]

Typical NSC knee jerk pants wetting thread: get a dig into a great young player AND have a go at Ryan at the same time.
Why do people like you bother watching football!?

At no point was it a dig at Alzate or Ryan you idiot.

It was an observation that was inviting discussion.

Keep your knee jerk pants wetting to yourself

 

[herecomesaregular]

What do you want Ryan to do? Wave him cheerfully on towards the goal?

Personally I think Ryan knew he'd cocked up a bit by giving Alzate the pass and then rushed out unnecessarily.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

It does seem that we are a pretty easy team for the opposition to work out in these situations? Keeper passes to CM player who is facing his own goal, he fluffs control and or pass and bingo, 0-1. It's usually the danger area around ten years from our box, with our CDs wrongfooted moving forward = no effective cover.

 

[rippleman]

But this the fourth time (to my recollection) it has happened; City, Liverpool x 2 and last night. Maybe if we have to play tappy ball around the area, Ryan should give it to a wide player, not the player directly in front of goal.

I'm not a Ryan basher; I don't think we could possibly get any better for the money and he has made some great saves. But he is the common thread; hope he learns the lesson now and stops doing it.

 

[One Love]

Oh ok so the bits calling the thread "Alzate error" and then immediately saying Ryan was in the wrong I must have imagined.

Everyone makes mistakes, it's part of football.

Mentioning it doesn't have to be knee jerk bed wetting.

 

[albionalex]

surely the question was whether Ryan needed to foul their player for the penalty.

If Dunk and Maupay take their chances which were bigger mistakes then we might have got a better result.

I don't think Ryan was trying to foul him...

 

[The Wizard]

Imagine giving anyone other than Alzate any of the blame for that goal It’s one of those where I really wonder if I’m watching the same sport, Alzate had plenty of time when he received the ball and played a dreadful pass, his mistake, they happen. Unfortunately it was a crucial goal for us to concede.

 

[zefarelly]

I don't think Ryan was trying to foul him...

No, he'd have got sent off . . . . strike saw the leg and deliberately aimed for it to get the penalty.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

We've cocked up in this way a number of times now - not sure I've seen any other Premier League team concede so many goals of this type?

I've seen the big 6 do it - it happens with that style of play. I like that we do it, I know others would rather we play a Burnley or Palace style but that's not for me

 

[Weststander]

Imagine giving anyone other than Alzate any of the blame for that goal It’s one of those where I really wonder if I’m watching the same sport, Alzate had plenty of time when he received the ball and played a dreadful pass, his mistake, they happen. Unfortunately it was a crucial goal for us to concede.

This.

A game changer. Chelsea offered next to nothing until then.

 

[lost in london]

The blame lies solely with Alzate for that. If you can’t control and pass a ball with 6 yards of space (even if you have to go back to Ryan who then goes long) then you shouldn’t be playing CM for a PL side.

I thought it was apparent that Ryan kicked long far more frequently last night.
I think there is a move to mix it up more, than we did last season.

I didn't see anything wrong with the pass to Alzate, he was in space and the error was not caused by the press, it was just a shit pass.

There was plenty of room around him to receive turn and make a pass the issue was not Ryan it was Alzate not being aware or looking around him before making the pass. He is young will learn, is not the first and won’t be the last but the error is his

The intention was correct from Ryan and Alzate, it is how you pass and break through a press. Unfortunately Alzate just didn't connect with the ball properly.

I have no major issue with it as the intentions were all correct and playing like this will give us greater overall reward but mistakes will happen to all players occasionally. Apart from that mistake, Alzate was excellent, he and Bissouma controlled the midfield against real quality opposition. I'm massively excited about watching them play together this season and looking forward to seeing them up against Hayden and Shelvey this weekend, slight difference in quality to Kante and Jorginho.

The pass to Alzate was fine, he had plenty of room and other players on to pass to. Unfortunately he picked the wrong player and scuffed the pass, shit happens, it's just one of those things.
I think Alzate had a great game, I'm sure he feels bad about the cock up but it's done, time to move on.

Worth having a look at Potter's interview on the BBC website. Obviously he doesn't deny Alzate didn't play a great pass, but he put more of the blame on Ryan for passing Alzate the ball in that situation. As others have said, the cock up happened very shortly after we were on the attack, as a result some of our players were not where they needed to be, which meant the short ball, pass it round the back option shouldn't have been taken.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/54156594

 

[lost in london]

Imagine giving anyone other than Alzate any of the blame for that goal It’s one of those where I really wonder if I’m watching the same sport, Alzate had plenty of time when he received the ball and played a dreadful pass, his mistake, they happen. Unfortunately it was a crucial goal for us to concede.

Potter put the bulk of the blame on Ryan.

 

[albionalex]

Potter put the bulk of the blame on Ryan.

That's your interpretation.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Potter put the bulk of the blame on Ryan.

If Ryan had been taller he would have been able to see over the players in front of him and play a better pass.