[Palace] The Always Ultras:: a tale of WOE

[Icy Gull]

Wouldn’t you love to hear the thoughts of some of the displaced season ticket holders? Shame that none of them seem to post on here. I have sympathy for them and am surprised that they haven’t kicked off big time, maybe they have and I just haven’t seen it.

What a shoddy way to treat long term fans, our gripes about becoming more corporate over the last seven years pale significantly when compared to this bit of back stabbing.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I actually think most of this is being driven by the yanks and Parish is being made to be the fall guy. The yanks love all the fanatical supporters as in their minds it is good news stories. The fact there has been so much bad press generated by the AU about not getting their own way will upset the yanks more than no home touchdowns, sorry, goals, this season. As has been said the AU didnt make a jot of difference last season with the losing start so why is it any different this season?

Speaking personally, once I noticed that the petition was open to abuse I went for it, fully expecting any self respecting business owner to either ignore it or at least ask for proof, i.e. names, of who has signed it before even entertaining discussions and once they saw all the fake names that would have been the end of it. The fact that the owners have just urinated over fans who had been there long before the AU and would have been there long after make the whole thing even more comical. All it needs to cap this is for the American owners to decide that their "franchise" would get more support in somewhere like Cornwall and try and move the club there.

As has been said many times but no answer given from any Palace fans, how can you be so fanatical about a club that the first time they don't pander to your requests you just decide that's it I'm not going any more? Are they really going to be missing for all this season? If I was the owners I would have at least laid down a condition for the mass eviction of the E400 that the AU need to fill whats left available of their old seats for the rest of the season. At least show some commitment to the club and prove you still want to be there. Who knows, by the end of the season they might be known as the Broadfield Fanatics if they yet again jump ship to another team. They are nothing more than a rent a mob

I think you may well be right about the yanks. Was thinking the same myself.

If it is them then it's even funnier. Parish puts out a statement saying there's no way they'll move people to suit the AU agenda. The Americans go:

"Hold on a minute there Steve. The ONLY thing this franchise has going for it is that people know it for those guys who wear black, bang a drum and do chants like in the MLS. We love those guys!

"Give them what they want you limey prick. We're in charge or had you forgotten?".

Parish does yet another completely embarrassing U-turn and boots out the proper fans from the best seats in the ground.

It would be understandable as Americans have no idea about the loyalty of fans over decades and through generations. Their sports teams are routinely uprooted and moved across the country. Why would they get that it would be really bad to shift supporters to a different part of the ground?

So it's one of two things. Parish is no longer in charge and is just doing the bidding of the yanks (despite Palace fans telling us that would never happen). Or Parish is still in charge and has just chosen to **** over some of the most loyal fans his club has after promising not to. There's no way he's coming out of this well.....

 

[LlcoolJ]

Wouldn’t you love to hear the thoughts of some of the displaced season ticket holders? Shame that none of them seem to post on here. I have sympathy for them and am surprised that they haven’t kicked off big time, maybe they have and I just haven’t seen it.

What a shoddy way to treat long term fans, our gripes about becoming more corporate over the last seven years pale significantly when compared to this bit of back stabbing.

"Crystal Palace - Against Modern Football". You couldn't make it up. [emoji23]

 

[dazzer6666]

Wouldn’t you love to hear the thoughts of some of the displaced season ticket holders? Shame that none of them seem to post on here. I have sympathy for them and am surprised that they haven’t kicked off big time, maybe they have and I just haven’t seen it.

What a shoddy way to treat long term fans, our gripes about becoming more corporate over the last seven years pale significantly when compared to this bit of back stabbing.

There's plenty kicking off..........and the latest posts on this thread are quite amusing, particularly in relation to the old and new petitions

https://www.holmesdale.net/page.php?id=106&tid=173101&page=16

Sample posts (there are 16 pages of them)

It has massive support from Brighton (and other clubs) who wanted to make us look like idiots; Parish should have perhaps taken a look at the names on that petition (he's apparently signed it many many times himself) before he accepted it as a mandate for backing the HF.

Is it worth a second Petition with opposing signatures - on behalf of the 400 Block E Fans seeing as SP likes petitions so much. will also see just how much opposition there is to this move.

There already is one, but Brighton are aware so expect Steve Parish, Prince Charming, Mr Tumble, The Gravity Whore, Wilf Topknot, Fanny Chmelar, et al to be signing in great numbers in due course:

For "Singing section" read "Standing section" - Clearly those who will be located in this seated area will be given carte blanch to stand persistently during the game.

It would appear that the club can dress up their U-Turn with use of the words "Singing section" but at the end of the day all they have done is to accommodate the HF in their demands for a move and don't give two hoots for loyal long-standing season ticket holders some, perhaps most, have sat with family and friends in the block for over 20 years.I really do sympathise with these fans.

Like many have stated on this thread, there is no argument that the HF massively improve the atmosphere inside Selhurst with their noise & displays.
On looking back at the clubs statement made on the 2nd September, they stated they had advised the HF that they felt it would be hugely unfair and disruptive to existing block E season ticket holders to move them out of their seats at the start of the current season, but they promised to review the matter when the main stand was rebuilt and many more options would be available to those displaced.

The HF then decided not to take up their 100 or so ST’s in block B and the atmosphere in the 4 home games played so far has not been good, although I’m of the opinion that this is mainly due to the team’s performances. If we had scored in any of the 4 home games played so far this season, the crowd atmosphere even without the HF would have had Selhurst rocking.
Just one month on, the club have changed their minds and basically caved into to the demands of the HF by advising 400 existing season ticket holders who occupy the rear 16 rows of block E, that they will not be able to renew their season ticket from next season. Offers of a 50% discount for an alternative seat & loyalty points are of little comfort & use when there is very limited choice of good viewing seats available and certainly not in groups of 2-4 for some of those who sit with friends &/or and family. These seats not only offer an excellent view, but are covered, with close access to the toilets & entrance/exit. If the club had stood by their original decision and waited until the main stand is rebuilt, when c8k more capacity becomes available, I’m sure many of the 400 would have understood & accepted the situation. With comments relating to possible delays of the main stand rebuild, this is even more relevant and why existing block E holders should be allowed to remain until the main stand has been rebuilt. I have 2 friends who have been ST holders in affected Block E rows since the stand was built in 1995 & they are very disillusioned with what is happening. Surely long-standing loyalty is worthy of better treatment or maybe the ‘Palace Family’ is no more & perhaps ‘ISLEY46’ isn’t so cynical after all? (see post 12.02pm yesterday on page 12). I don’t see the HF being loyal or living up to their ‘THESE TWO COLOURS UNITE US ALL’ banner & not too late for a U turn Mr Parish.

I have been in the LH back row of block F since the stand was built and with the HF standing directly to the right from next season, with flags waving, I’ll probably have to stand for most of the game and I’m not sure that drum will do my tinnitus any good, so roll on the main stand rebuild!

I share the opinion regarding performances. We've had much the better of the game in two of them but been clueless at the business end. Even against Southampton we had enough chances to get something.

It's not like we've been on the back foot and needed a lift.

I'm also not sure how the HF reconcile their supposed anti-corporate ethos with forming a contrived "singing section" (FFS) with the club at the expense of long term season ticket holders.

It's so poor from both the club and HF it's almost funny. How to turn yourselves from a respected club into a bit of laughing stock.

All Palace fans should be treated equally,Parish didn't have to do anything.
If the "diehard" HF wanted to flounce off he should have let them ,instead of upsetting many more Palace fans,he simply caved in.
Everyone in the lower tier will be affected because of the selfishness of a hundred or so ,and a weak chairman.

 

[Easy 10]

There already is one, but Brighton are aware so expect Steve Parish, Prince Charming, Mr Tumble, The Gravity Whore, Wilf Topknot, Fanny Chmelar, et al to be signing in great numbers in due course:[/I]

Ooh, that was my one. I was quite pleased with it at the time, glad they remembered it

"Swivel-eyed gravity whore" to give him his full official title.

 

[Gary Leeds]

I like this post on the Holmesdale

Sing coz you’re forced to,
You only sing coz you’re forced to,
Sing coz you’re for.....ced to,
You only sing coz you’re forced to.

That has to be sung when we play them

 

[dazzer6666]

Ooh, that was my one. I was quite pleased with it at the time, glad they remembered it

"Swivel-eyed gravity whore" to give him his full official title.

Excellent work

Having a longer browse through their thread, it's all pretty toxic.......

Originally posted by Painter
I agree, this isn’t going to end well for anyone.
I don’t understand, why many on here are supporting the creation of an elitist group at the expense of normal supporters.

Short but sweet. And you’re of course right.
I literally cannot understand for a second the people genuinely supporting the concept of telling Palace fans that they’re not as important as another group simply on the basis of how they sing. And defending how the HF have gone about this.
They’ve divided an entire fan base. And they knew exactly what they were doing. And apparently these are the ones we should all bow down and pander to in every demand they make.
What an utter s*** show this is.

 

[Easy 10]

I love that one of their solutions is to offer a full review the seating arrangements when the new main stand is built. That'll be the stand that hasn't even got planning permission yet.

This is all so delightful.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I love that one of their solutions is to offer a full review the seating arrangements when the new main stand is built. That'll be the stand that hasn't even got planning permission yet.

This is all so delightful.

Yes I like those posts. "Why not wait until we get the new stand?!".

Because you might NEVER get it and if you do it will be years from now. The club's actions re the AU prove this. If the drone boys were made to wait for the new stand to accommodate their move then they'd already have disbanded or gone to support another team. It's so transparent.

Proper LOLZ though.

 

[Icy Gull]

Reading the link [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] linked I saw this conspiracy theory posted. Quite interesting no?

Possibly the most cynical post I’ve written but……

Maybe Steve Parish didn’t give in to blackmail but orchestrated the whole thing?

Parish is not a stupid person – inheriting The Adplates Group and turning it into one of the most successful Marketing Implementation agencies in the world before selling it on to Williams Lea.

He is surrounded by highly intelligent strategists, consultants and marketing experts. Crystal Palace is a brand and like it or not the HF have been moulded into a large part of that brand. Hence the media and TV coverage they receive (which for a group of 100 is exceptional). I often wondered how this group could afford some of the displays they put on without corporate help so maybe there were deep pockets operating in the background? Parish certainly has the expertise and resource at his fingertips to organise these media displays. Seems to have closed-door meeting with the HF leaders and I also wondered how they could have so many tickets for certain away games put aside in blocks for them to pick up at pre-arranged times.
(seen this happen at the club shop)

Football will surely move into the pay per view arena in the very near future with a global pay per view audience and American backers Crystal Palace need to raise their profile abroad. They need to look good on TV (not only on the pitch but on the terrace as well). To entice an audience in what will be a crowded market you need a USP and that could well be the HF centre stage in full view of the TV cameras with a backdrop of a new main stand, Palace need to be able to show the full entertainment package. Sitting in the corner just doesn’t cut it. They need to spread to cover the whole lower Holmesdale to have the full impact.

Moving loyal block E supporters from centre stage may just be an inconvenience in the implementation of a marketing strategy. There may be an outcry from other supporters but do people really care so much? It seems most think it is an injustice but want the HF cheerleaders back as they miss the noise and entertainment they bring– especially when it’s a dull game…(Think of the HF as the crystals but on the terrace – they are the entertainment during the game – hence why some of them don’t watch the game but have their backs to it conducting the ‘singers’ – if you were a real ‘fanatic’ could you bear to not watch the game?) Sounds like Parish has already sorted out who has first shout on these centre stage seats.

Whatever happens and however much this splits the support, Crystal Palace is a business and supporters are customers – just happens that there are more potential customers outside Selhurst Park than inside. Inconveniencing / sacrificing the 400 E Blockers to implement a corporate strategy will have been considered and agreed as low-risk by consultants, business advisers and legal departments.

I would expect the rejig of the Lower Holmesdale to coincide with a few good signings to improve the team – Palace go in a winning streak and all of this will be forgotten. (Part of me doesn't think it is coincidence that the HF pulling out coincides with poor performances to get the most impact - Palace have a recent history of poor home starts to the season so as an implementation strategy the timing is perfect.)

Successful team with a high profile fan base creating a me-too scenario for armchair audience becomes a marketing man’s dream – can sell that into any media.

As I mentioned at the start of this post maybe cynical – maybe not

 

[Easy 10]

Yes I like those posts. "Why not wait until we get the new stand?!".

Because you might NEVER get it and if you do it will be years from now. The club's actions re the AU prove this. If the drone boys were made to wait for the new stand to accommodate their move then they'd already have disbanded or gone to support another team. It's so transparent.

Proper LOLZ though.

Added to the fact that IF they get relegated, those plans for a new stand would be binned quicker than a fried chickenburger from their slum high street. Although relegation would instantly free up around 10,000 seats. Everyone could pretty much sit where they want then. So, every cloud and all that.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Reading the link [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] linked I saw this conspiracy theory posted. Quite interesting no?

Possibly the most cynical post I’ve written but……

Maybe Steve Parish didn’t give in to blackmail but orchestrated the whole thing?

Parish is not a stupid person – inheriting The Adplates Group and turning it into one of the most successful Marketing Implementation agencies in the world before selling it on to Williams Lea.

He is surrounded by highly intelligent strategists, consultants and marketing experts. Crystal Palace is a brand and like it or not the HF have been moulded into a large part of that brand. Hence the media and TV coverage they receive (which for a group of 100 is exceptional). I often wondered how this group could afford some of the displays they put on without corporate help so maybe there were deep pockets operating in the background? Parish certainly has the expertise and resource at his fingertips to organise these media displays. Seems to have closed-door meeting with the HF leaders and I also wondered how they could have so many tickets for certain away games put aside in blocks for them to pick up at pre-arranged times.
(seen this happen at the club shop)

Football will surely move into the pay per view arena in the very near future with a global pay per view audience and American backers Crystal Palace need to raise their profile abroad. They need to look good on TV (not only on the pitch but on the terrace as well). To entice an audience in what will be a crowded market you need a USP and that could well be the HF centre stage in full view of the TV cameras with a backdrop of a new main stand, Palace need to be able to show the full entertainment package. Sitting in the corner just doesn’t cut it. They need to spread to cover the whole lower Holmesdale to have the full impact.

Moving loyal block E supporters from centre stage may just be an inconvenience in the implementation of a marketing strategy. There may be an outcry from other supporters but do people really care so much? It seems most think it is an injustice but want the HF cheerleaders back as they miss the noise and entertainment they bring– especially when it’s a dull game…(Think of the HF as the crystals but on the terrace – they are the entertainment during the game – hence why some of them don’t watch the game but have their backs to it conducting the ‘singers’ – if you were a real ‘fanatic’ could you bear to not watch the game?) Sounds like Parish has already sorted out who has first shout on these centre stage seats.

Whatever happens and however much this splits the support, Crystal Palace is a business and supporters are customers – just happens that there are more potential customers outside Selhurst Park than inside. Inconveniencing / sacrificing the 400 E Blockers to implement a corporate strategy will have been considered and agreed as low-risk by consultants, business advisers and legal departments.

I would expect the rejig of the Lower Holmesdale to coincide with a few good signings to improve the team – Palace go in a winning streak and all of this will be forgotten. (Part of me doesn't think it is coincidence that the HF pulling out coincides with poor performances to get the most impact - Palace have a recent history of poor home starts to the season so as an implementation strategy the timing is perfect.)

Successful team with a high profile fan base creating a me-too scenario for armchair audience becomes a marketing man’s dream – can sell that into any media.

As I mentioned at the start of this post maybe cynical – maybe not

I was about to post that as I just saw it too. So much pure GOLD in that post, I don't know where to start.

The comparison of the AU to "The Crystals" is probably the funniest bit though.

My word. The tinpottery is IMMENSE at that franchise. Every time you think "well, they can't get any more embarrassing" they manage it. How?!

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

[LlcoolJ]

Added to the fact that IF they get relegated, those plans for a new stand would be binned quicker than a fried chickenburger from their slum high street. Although relegation would instantly free up around 10,000 seats. Everyone could pretty much sit where they want then. So, every cloud and all that.

Don't forget the "ring fenced" £100m they have for the stand. You know the £100m that doesn't exist in the accounts of any of the companies that own/run the club. But it's there, they said so.

 

[dazzer6666]

There's another issue they seem to have forgotten about.............................

Originally posted by FairweatherEagle
Good point - the club could get into real trouble if someone does point out the persistent standing in block E now. If the ejectees get disgruntled enough they could just go to the authorities and point out that the club has effectively made their old patch a standing section.Could cause the club big problems.

Closure of the whole LH is/would be a real possibility.

 

[rogersix]

Only if he cryogenically freezes his hair. Which he may already have done.

Stop planning for the future - none of us will see 2110 but we’re all pretty sure you’re correct

was a bit confused!

 

[Stat Brother]

I actually think most of this is being driven by the yanks and Parish is being made to be the fall guy. The yanks love all the fanatical supporters as in their minds it is good news stories. The fact there has been so much bad press generated by the AU about not getting their own way will upset the yanks more than no home touchdowns, sorry, goals, this season. As has been said the AU didnt make a jot of difference last season with the losing start so why is it any different this season?

Speaking personally, once I noticed that the petition was open to abuse I went for it, fully expecting any self respecting business owner to either ignore it or at least ask for proof, i.e. names, of who has signed it before even entertaining discussions and once they saw all the fake names that would have been the end of it. The fact that the owners have just urinated over fans who had been there long before the AU and would have been there long after make the whole thing even more comical. All it needs to cap this is for the American owners to decide that their "franchise" would get more support in somewhere like Cornwall and try and move the club there.

As has been said many times but no answer given from any Palace fans, how can you be so fanatical about a club that the first time they don't pander to your requests you just decide that's it I'm not going any more? Are they really going to be missing for all this season? If I was the owners I would have at least laid down a condition for the mass eviction of the E400 that the AU need to fill whats left available of their old seats for the rest of the season. At least show some commitment to the club and prove you still want to be there. Who knows, by the end of the season they might be known as the Broadfield Fanatics if they yet again jump ship to another team. They are nothing more than a rent a mob

I think you may well be right about the yanks. Was thinking the same myself.

If it is them then it's even funnier. Parish puts out a statement saying there's no way they'll move people to suit the AU agenda. The Americans go:

"Hold on a minute there Steve. The ONLY thing this franchise has going for it is that people know it for those guys who wear black, bang a drum and do chants like in the MLS. We love those guys!

"Give them what they want you limey prick. We're in charge or had you forgotten?".

Parish does yet another completely embarrassing U-turn and boots out the proper fans from the best seats in the ground.

It would be understandable as Americans have no idea about the loyalty of fans over decades and through generations. Their sports teams are routinely uprooted and moved across the country. Why would they get that it would be really bad to shift supporters to a different part of the ground?

So it's one of two things. Parish is no longer in charge and is just doing the bidding of the yanks (despite Palace fans telling us that would never happen). Or Parish is still in charge and has just chosen to **** over some of the most loyal fans his club has after promising not to. There's no way he's coming out of this well.....

I'm going to disagree.
If we're to use the 76ers (their last club) as an example of how the Americans work, there's only one thing they are interested in - MONEY.

Philly went from a play off team to the very worst, under their stewardship, and since leaving the club they are now back as a play off tipped sided.
Philly struggled to get into double figures in the 'wins' column, remember that's an 82 game season, all the time they were in charge and yet the fans were charged top top dollar for attending.

I find it hard to believe their arrival into English soccer just as the money went proper stooopid is a coincidence.

Let's not forget, they came in 2015 promising new ground/stand/infrastructure.

 

[Gary Leeds]

I'm going to disagree.
If we're to use the 76ers (their last club) as an example of how the Americans work, there's only one thing they are interested in - MONEY.

Philly went from a play off team to the very worst, under their stewardship, and since leaving the club they are now back as a play off tipped sided.
Philly struggled to get into double figures in the 'wins' column, remember that's an 82 game season, all the time they were in charge and yet the fans were charged top top dollar for attending.

I find it hard to believe their arrival into English soccer just as the money went proper stooopid is a coincidence.

Let's not forget, they came in 2015 promising new ground/stand/infrastructure.

But if they think the money will go away without the AU (i.e. relegation) then they will take control and do anything the AU want. Also they may think having the AU is a TV boost and will get them more live games. Plus its a marketing tool, the more people hear about the AU then they think the more merchandise they will sell

If anything this smacks of money men controlling the show rather than an owner who cares about the fans

 

[dazzer6666]

But if they think the money will go away without the AU (i.e. relegation) then they will take control and do anything the AU want. Also they may think having the AU is a TV boost and will get them more live games. Plus its a marketing tool, the more people hear about the AU then they think the more merchandise they will sell

If anything this smacks of money men controlling the show rather than an owner who cares about the fans

Within a couple of years they'll be selling HF branded hoodies from the club caravan....................

 

[Bozza]

There's another issue they seem to have forgotten about.............................

Originally posted by FairweatherEagle
Good point - the club could get into real trouble if someone does point out the persistent standing in block E now. If the ejectees get disgruntled enough they could just go to the authorities and point out that the club has effectively made their old patch a standing section.Could cause the club big problems.

Closure of the whole LH is/would be a real possibility.

Never going to happen.

A large number of fans in the Holmesdale stand already as is the case in our own North Stand and in areas of most if not all Premier League grounds.

A blind eye is turned to standing in most instances now as the momentum behind safe standing continues to build.

 

[Stat Brother]

But if they think the money will go away without the AU (i.e. relegation) then they will take control and do anything the AU want. Also they may think having the AU is a TV boost and will get them more live games. Plus its a marketing tool, the more people hear about the AU then they think the more merchandise they will sell

If anything this smacks of money men controlling the show rather than an owner who cares about the fans

You may well be right, I just don't see it.

'Too good to go down' or to be more precise 'not bad enough to go down' is what they've been sold and they are happy with that.
The club, fans, image etc doesn't seem to have bothered them in the past, just so long as the money is coming in.

As said beyond exorbitant wages for a few players, their doesn't seem to be much evidence of their £100,000,000 investment, esp when added to the £500,000,000 the club has earned.

I'm finding it tough to look upon their ownership with a Mr Bloom perspective.
If a coherent palace fan can help me out, I'm more than happy to be wrong and have my mind changed.


Oh and I'm not intentionally slagging them off, if I was a Private Equity Investor, and knew what one was, I'd also be all over the Premier League thinking it was an easy way to make money.