[Other Sport] The Academy Awards

[Stato]

Yeah and everyone already have their red lines. Thats how it is. You can make any normal person really angry if you play the right strings.

Are you saying there should be no red line? Are you saying you'd be perfectly fine with Mel Gibson standing there doing Holocaust jokes in front of Hollywood where several people are descendents of Jews who may or may not have survived the Holocaust? Would it be perfectly fine if someone strolled in and threw some suicide jokes directed at Robin Williams wife and kids? Or indeed to make jokes about some particular persons illness?

Is it "civlised" to go slap any of those "comedians"? No, probably not. Is it right? Yes.

No matter how many extreme and unrealsistic examples you invent to try to support your argument, the answer is always going to be that whether or not the joke is acceptable, you cannot respond with violence. By doing so, you are accepting that, whatever the circumstances, whoever hits hardest wins.

Incidentally , why use the old trope of putting the word comedians in inverted commas? Chris Rock is not a "comedian", he is a comedian. Whether you find him funny or not, he has the 30 years of ticket sales, critically acclaimed specials and millions of dollars he was paid to be one to prove it.

 

[A1X]

FWIW I think the most telling aspect of all of this is nobody has actually thought to check how Jada Smith is with having her alopecia mocked on a global stage, and instead it's two men people are talking about instead.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

It is two very different things to make jokes about your own medical condition and having someone else doing it.

If you're making jokes about it means you've accepted it and can have a laugh about it.

Do you even know what GI Jane looks like?

The character was a kick arse one. It's not like JPS is being compared to some pathetic shitty character.

 

[Swansman]

No matter how many extreme and unrealsistic examples you invent to try to support your argument, the answer is always going to be that whether or not the joke is acceptable, you cannot respond with violence. By doing so, you are accepting that, whatever the circumstances, whoever hits hardest wins.

Incidentally , why use the old trope of putting the word comedians in inverted commas? Chris Rock is not a "comedian", he is a comedian. Whether you find him funny or not, he has the 30 years of ticket sales, critically acclaimed specials and millions of dollars he was paid to be one to prove it.

Whatever the circumstances? No. I have my threshold, Will has his, and despite your easier-said-than-done moralism, you have yours.

In my opinion the world is not black or white whether it comes to a man slapping another man. Its not either "you should never do it" or "you should do it whenever you want to". As I see it, as a common rule you shouldnt but there are occasions when it is justified. Punches are sort of like exclamation marks... you should only use them four or five times in a life time, so use them wisely.

Comedian is not a protected title as far as I know and I can label his profession whatever the **** I want using any number of inverted commas.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I don't recall any outrage about this hair loss joke in the same show...

“I’m really surprised Space Jam 2 didn’t get an Oscar for that hairline they gave LeBron James.” Regina Hall

LeBron is losing his hair by the way.

 

[Swansman]

I don't recall any outrage about this hair loss joke in the same show...



LeBron is losing his hair by the way.

What is your point?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

What is your point?

That nobody gave a shit about the same kind of joke being made earlier.

Nobody was offended and I bet plenty of people laughed at it, the Smiths probably included.

So does the woman who made the joke about James hairline deserve to get slapped too?

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

He gets in one little fight…

Underrated comment.

 

[METALMICKY]

Sorry Will Smith but you simply cannot respond with violence whatever the provocation. And what's with the fake looking bitch slap. Only justified is protecting his wife from physical threat. Do I think the joke was a little cruel? Yes it was but that's what Chris Rock and Ricky Gervais are paid to do. The life of a celebrity can't always be smooth with people blowing smoke up your butt. You need emotional resilience and accept that ' if you buy the ticket you handle the ride '. If look at the footage initially Will Smith laughs but then he sees his wife grimaced and jumps into action. I feel there's a lot wrong with that relationship. And for one so sensitive funny how Jada Pinkett is very keen to publicise and broadcast those marriage issues including an open relationship where she's had lovers.

How should he have reacted? He's obviously in an emotional state and was never going to let it slide. However, he could have shouted loudly something like " not funny Chris my wife is not well '. As simple as that may have even got the audience cheering for him. Sadly, when he resorts to violence he crosses a line and sets a terrible example and precedent. Edgy comedians aren't going away or becoming unfashionable. We rightly discuss when they mock the Holocaust but this just isn't on that level. I've always liked will Smith and his acting but this is not great. But ultimately he's liked by Hollywood so will side out the storm. Many other actors might out have been so lucky and careers could end. And how does he make amends? His speech later made some apologies but critically he didn't apologise to Chris Rock. The bigger man would have done so.

 

[Swansman]

That nobody gave a shit about the same kind of joke being made earlier.

Nobody was offended and I bet plenty of people laughed at it, the Smiths probably included.

So does the woman who made the joke about James hairline deserve to get slapped too?

Ah yeah the usual incel shite, "what about the men??"

There are some differences though:

I dont think James baldness is a result of illness.

I dont think, generally speaking (but definitely with exceptions), that the hair - or looks in general - is usually as strong part of a mans identity as it is for a lot of women.

But by all means, if James wife stepped up and slapped whoever made that joke, it would have been something...

 

[A1X]

Do I think the joke was a little cruel? Yes it was but that's what Chris Rock and Ricky Gervais are paid to do. The life of a celebrity can't always be smooth with people blowing smoke up your butt. You need emotional resilience and accept that ' if you buy the ticket you handle the ride '.

Sorry but I think there’s still a line which shouldn’t be crossed, even when mocking celebrities, and I’d put genetic disease well and truly over that line. Would it have been acceptable to mock her if she had to use a wheelchair? Or for the colour of her skin? Or her gender? Or are these things fine because she’s a celebrity?

 

[Stato]

Comedian is not a protected title as far as I know and I can label his profession whatever the **** I want using any number of inverted commas.

I didn't argue that you couldn't do it. I asked why you did it. Its a lazy trope which I associate with the likes of Farage, Littlejohn and Piers Morgan and it just grates on me whenever anybody else uses it.

Your argument about grey areas is obviously based on truth. Everything is based on grey areas, but should the massively successful and often very funny comedian Chris Rock decide to press charges, 'He said something unpleasant to my wife' would not be a defence in court.

By the way, where do you stand on Rock's much funnier, 2016 line about Pinkett-Smith's boycott of the Oscars? Given that Will Smith's instruction wasn't 'Don't say that about my wife', but in effect 'don't mention my wife at all,' I suspect the sting felt from the previous barb may have contributed to this turn of events and that, had someone other than Rock done last night's line, although it wouldn't have been less cruel, the reaction may have been more magmanimous.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Ah yeah the usual incel shite, "what about the men??"

There are some differences though:

I dont think James baldness is a result of illness.

I dont think, generally speaking (but definitely with exceptions), that the hair - or looks in general - is usually as strong part of a mans identity as it is for a lot of women.

But by all means, if James wife stepped up and slapped whoever made that joke, it would have been something...

Incel?


How about the hypocrisy? There's no differences.

Male baldness is androgenetic alopecia


You don't think when men start going bald it doesn't impact their self esteem and how women treat them in a big way?

Such bad takes



In the end if it's acceptable to have a dig at one celebrity on a show about their loss of hair then it's fine for another to cop the same treatment.

Not that complicated.


James has been mocked and made fun of all over the place for his hair so I doubt his wife would be doing any slapping.

 

[Triggaaar]

He was laughing away at the joke whereas his wife had a face like thunder, then the camera pans from the Smiths back to the stage. Next thing you know he's striding up in faux anger to punch the guy.

Are you sure that his laughter was genuine? Personally I didn't find the joke funny, I found it cruel, and my guess is that Will was trying to laugh it off, because that's what audiences try to do when insulted.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Are you sure that his laughter was genuine? Personally I didn't find the joke funny, I found it cruel, and my guess is that Will was trying to laugh it off, because that's what audiences try to do when insulted.

Well yeh and it takes a few seconds for the brain to properly process things like that

This all comes down it. "Is it it ok to hit someone for insulting your wife? The answer I suspect is changing over time with fewer people year on year who would say yes

 

[Swansman]

I didn't argue that you couldn't do it. I asked why you did it. Its a lazy trope which I associate with the likes of Farage, Littlejohn and Piers Morgan and it just grates on me whenever anybody else uses it.

Your argument about grey areas is obviously based on truth. Everything is based on grey areas, but should the massively successful and often very funny comedian Chris Rock decide to press charges, 'He said something unpleasant to my wife' would not be a defence in court.

By the way, where do you stand on Rock's much funnier, 2016 line about Pinkett-Smith's boycott of the Oscars? Given that Will Smith's instruction wasn't 'Don't say that about my wife', but in effect 'don't mention my wife at all,' I suspect the sting felt from the previous barb may have contributed to this turn of events and that, had someone other than Rock done last night's line, although it wouldn't have been less cruel, the reaction may have been more magmanimous.

I did it because I dont find him funny. The same reason I label gangsta-mumble-rappers "musicians" because I dont consider what they do as music. It has no relation to what any of those three people think... you might think they're world famous but other than 15 minutes of fame for Farage no one outside the UK sphere gives a **** about them or would be influenced by any of them.

I had to google what Rock said in 2016 and while I dont found it particularly funny, I'd say its fair enough as it seems to be based on a decision she made rather than something (her illness) that she had no power over. No idea whether it had any impact or not on what happened yesterday but I'd guess not as it seems harmless. Will strikes me as having reasonable self-distance, especially considering how often he has joked about Wild Wild West being utter garbage. I think yesterdays "joke" (yes, I'm going all Farage again) alone was enough for him to get angry, but I really dont know.

 

[darkwolf666]

Are you sure that his laughter was genuine? Personally I didn't find the joke funny, I found it cruel, and my guess is that Will was trying to laugh it off, because that's what audiences try to do when insulted.

Yep, we've all done that, heard someone say something, and laughed a bit, then a split second later thought "hang on, that's not right".

If the video timeline is correct Will Smith "laughed" then almost immediately got to his feet to stride on stage, so had little time to react on his wife's behalf, the feeling of rage being his - I stand to be corrected on this if the video has been edited.

 

[METALMICKY]

Sorry but I think there’s still a line which shouldn’t be crossed, even when mocking celebrities, and I’d put genetic disease well and truly over that line. Would it have been acceptable to mock her if she had to use a wheelchair? Or for the colour of her skin? Or her gender? Or are these things fine because she’s a celebrity?

We can beg to differ on that issue and debate all day long. However, in this specific case the violence was wholly unjustified. And look my suggestion as to how he could have addressed the issue and potentially got everyone on his side. The line I was talking about is his response not what constitutes bad taste in humour.

 

[Driver8]

It was a bit of a girly slap. A one punch knock out would have been more satisfying.

 

[Simster]

Are you sure that his laughter was genuine? Personally I didn't find the joke funny, I found it cruel, and my guess is that Will was trying to laugh it off, because that's what audiences try to do when insulted.

Several people have already made that point on this thread and I've already said I took the point when Swansman made it.

I didn't find it funny, it was lame, but I also feel that "cruel" is a big exaggeration. I do understand why Smith took exception to it but what I really can't accept is that he punched the comedian for saying it. That is a terrible way to deal with the problem.