The 5th Investec Ashes Test, England v Australia, The Oval 21-25.08.13

[Uncle Buck]

Long term Kerrigan has a far greater chance of being part of the England set up than Woakes but, whatever they (Cook/Flower) say this selection we have ended up with is based upon a long sequence of events as follows:-

"oh shit Monty has imploded we don't have another spinner for the winter"
"Who is the next best?"
"Kerrigan is bowling well"
"But he cant make his debut at Sydney, he will be under huge pressure"
"Ok lets pick him for the Oval then, that will spin on the last couple of days"
"What and drop Swann?"
"No, your right, I know lets play two spinners, after all we are 3-0 up"
"Ok, but wont that but too much pressure on Anderson, Broad & Swann, particularly if we lose the toss?"
"True, what we need is an seaming all rounder, what are the options?
"um... ah"
"Woakes has got decent averages"
"Brilliant lets throw him in then, can be worse at 6 than Bairstow"

If that was the conversation then Stokes should have been picked as the all rounder.

 

[spring hall convert]

Watching a bit of it this morning, Woakes pace is not the problem. It was his line and lack of variation.

That could be the problem, I thought his natural pace was more around 80-82 mph.

I think the reason I'm fairly laissez-fare about this match, is I put my money where my mouth was on a 3-1 England victory in this series. If Australia score a hatful on the first day, I'll likely back the draw and then barring a miracle, can't lose.

 

[Uncle Buck]

That could be the problem, I thought his natural pace was more around 80-82 mph.

I think the reason I'm fairly laissez-fare about this match, is I put my money where my mouth was on a 3-1 England victory in this series. If Australia score a hatful on the first day, I'll likely back the draw and then barring a miracle, can't lose.

Out and out pace is not the key, it is being able to get the ball to do something.

In fact Finn should have been picked for this game, as his confidence needs sorting.

Still this Australian side is more than capable of an impressive collapse, so Woakes will probably take 5...

 

[Pavilionaire]

Now I'm usually the one to do the moaning, but it seems a bit of a knee jerk reaction to start saying they are not good enough, 5 and 2 overs in respectively!

Woakes was clearly favoured ahead of Tremlett as he can bat, and with the dropping of a batsman, that made sense, as does playing 2 spinners on this surface.

Is Woakes likely to take more wickets than Tremlett? No
Is Woakes likely to score more runs than Bairstow? No
Has Woakes EVER shown he has the economy and discipline that is a pre-requisite for being a test match bowler? Again, no.

If England were after a decent bat and a 5th bowler then Luke Wright would have been a better proposition than Woakes.

I think there's a hint of selectorial bias here. Warwickshire players always seem to be more likely to get the nod than players for les fashionable / non-test venue counties.

 

[S'hampton Seagull]

I've never seen Woakes as International quality bowler period, let alone for a Test match. Tremlett for Bresnan should have been the only change.

 

[spring hall convert]

Out and out pace is not the key, it is being able to get the ball to do something.

In fact Finn should have been picked for this game, as his confidence needs sorting.

Still this Australian side is more than capable of an impressive collapse, so Woakes will probably take 5...

That's my point, is he trying to bowl a bit too quick?

 

[spring hall convert]

I agree with this. It's a position England could really do with filling. I put Woakes in the Luke Wright bracket though. On paper he's a candidate but in reality he's a one-day player and no more.



Probably very true, especially the bit about finding it hard to be any worse than Bairstow!

I don't think you are wrong on Woakes but I was railing against people judging his future on one session, against Watson teeing off, when he is likely to be as nervous as he's ever been on a cricket pitch. Same with Kerrigan. Let them settle into the match.

I will make the point again, Watson did very well to target both the debutants, I suspect it was a plan.

 

[Paddy B]

If that was the conversation then Stokes should have been picked as the all rounder.

Really don't think there is much to choose between Stokes & Woakes. Ultimately we should be picking a team to win this test match to keep the momentum rolling into the winter, which we haven't done.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Re the second spinner - what's wrong with James Tredwell? In his one test so far he took 6 wickets at 30 apiece and scored 37 with 6 boundaries. Ok, it was against Bangladesh but in Dhaka and in a high-scoring match with 1,400+ runs at 45 apiece that England won by 9 wickets.

He and Swann took 12 wickets and bowled more than 60% of England's overs between them. He's also played 26 one-day matches but is only 31.

He and Monty are our next 2 best spinners, while any one of Bresnan, Tremlett, Finn and Onions can fill the 3rd/4th seamer spots. Why are Woakes and Kerrigan anywhere near selection for an Ashes side?

 

[Titanic]

Great wicket straight after lunch!

Good low catch by Trott at slip... Swann gets Rogers again.

118-2

 

[spring hall convert]

HKFC will be breathing easier!

 

[Bold Seagull]

Is Woakes likely to take more wickets than Tremlett? No
Is Woakes likely to score more runs than Bairstow? No
Has Woakes EVER shown he has the economy and discipline that is a pre-requisite for being a test match bowler? Again, no.

If England were after a decent bat and a 5th bowler then Luke Wright would have been a better proposition than Woakes.

I think there's a hint of selectorial bias here. Warwickshire players always seem to be more likely to get the nod than players for les fashionable / non-test venue counties.

My Mum would score more runs than Bairstow at the moment!

I honestly haven't seen enough of Woakes to form as certain an opinion on his test credentials as you have, but his first class stats are good, and he has come through the England U19's and Lions etc. so must be doing something the selectors like.

Woakes has a good county record this season as well, better than Tremlett's, and only a fraction worse than Onions.

 

[Uncle Buck]

My Mum would score more runs than Bairstow at the moment!

I honestly haven't seen enough of Woakes to form as certain an opinion on his test credentials as you have, but his first class stats are good, and he has come through the England U19's and Lions etc. so must be doing something the selectors like.

Woakes has a good county record this season as well, better than Tremlett's, and only a fraction worse than Onions.

Does your mum bat with a stick of rhubarb?

 

[spring hall convert]

Re the second spinner - what's wrong with James Tredwell? In his one test so far he took 6 wickets at 30 apiece and scored 37 with 6 boundaries. Ok, it was against Bangladesh but in Dhaka and in a high-scoring match with 1,400+ runs at 45 apiece that England won by 9 wickets.

He and Swann took 12 wickets and bowled more than 60% of England's overs between them. He's also played 26 one-day matches but is only 31.

He and Monty are our next 2 best spinners, while any one of Bresnan, Tremlett, Finn and Onions can fill the 3rd/4th seamer spots. Why are Woakes and Kerrigan anywhere near selection for an Ashes side?

His form in four day cricket has been lamentable this year hasn't it? He's a reliable enough performer but I think there's an eye to Swann's successor now as well as Kerrigan being a left armer offering some variety to Swann, should we play 2 spinners this winter (and Monty doesn't travel.) I like him as a player though, he's never let us down.

Clearly both these selections are to have a look at these guys and see if they are worth a place in the winter test squad. We know all about the guys you've listed, both are youngish so an eye to the future as well.

 

[Titanic]

Broad giving Clarke a torrid time... it is good to watch but I hope it doesn't last too long!

 

[Titanic]

Broad giving Clarke a torrid time... it is good to watch but I hope it doesn't last too long!

and Watson gets hit, turning his head away, and whacked just below the ear by Broad... not nice.

 

[SuperBrighton]

and Watson gets hit, turning his head away, and whacked just below the ear by Broad... not nice.

Looked bloody painful didn't it!

 

[Titanic]

Come on BROADY... get at 'em!