[Politics] The 2024 US Election - *MATCH DAY*

[beorhthelm]

as i understand it, potential Democrat candidates have held back, dont want to run against their own President. no one has the setup for an election campaign and fear losing the Trump would harm prospects for future. even if Biden stands aside, they aren't that sure of beating Trump. from the outside it looks like anyone against Trump would win, their internal politics and polling suggest otherwise.

 

[Zeberdi]

Biden has to step aside. He needs to be enjoying his retirement and winter years. He's not fit for office.

I honestly think that is a conversation he will be having right now - he is a man of honour and will do what is best for the Country.

I find the whole thing terribly sad really.

 

[Insel affe]

Biden has to step aside. He needs to be enjoying his retirement and winter years. He's not fit for office.

neither is his rival.

Sad state of affairs for America to be honest.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

There is no procedure for “removing” Biden without his consent but I think Biden will step aside if he has been convinced it’s for the good of the Country - I have no doubts about that.

However, that will leave it to the Democratic Convention on 22nd August to vote for a new Candidate completely (The modern Conventions tend to rubber stamp the results of the Primaries) otherwise the Impala will stay on top of the ticket (which would be awful imo and just as bad for the Dems)

I don’t think it insurmountable -

Presidential candidates used to be elected at the Party’s Convention - The Primaries earlier in the year (which put Biden as the preferred Democratic Candidate) are a relatively modern process and didn’t really become prominent until the early ‘70s to stop Presidents being elected by the party elite instead of the people - There is no provision for Primaries in the Constitution, America’s sacred cow.

In this case, the polls clearly say Biden has lost the support of floating voters (who will swing this election one way or another).

Also, the delegates elected to the Democratic Convention unlike Republican delegates, are free voters in the Democratic Party rules - they are not tied to the Candidate they voted for in the Primaries. They can vote for whoever stands at the Convention. Of course another Candidate could present him or herself to the Convention but it would be a very brave Democrat that would challenge a sitting Democrat President at the Party’s Convention and disastrous for the Dems if it went pear-shaped.

Getting Biden to ‘step down’ isn’t the real issue. The real question as @lasvegan somewhat smugly pointed out, who is there to replace him?

(Also if Biden isn’t deemed fit to continue as Presidential Candidate, that would raise a very thorny problem of whether he is fit for the last 7 months of his first term.)

The 25th amendment allows him to be removed earlier if he is deemed unable of doing the role, it would involve his cabinet/VP turning on him, which is unlikely.

From memory, there was talk of trump being removed after he came back from covid

But there is certainly a way to do so.

It shouldn't get to that, Jill Biden should be tapping him on the shoulder and saying enough.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The 25th amendment allows him to be removed earlier if he is deemed unable of doing the role, it would involve his cabinet/VP turning on him, which is unlikely.

From memory, there was talk of trump being removed after he came back from covid

But there is certainly a way to do so.

It shouldn't get to that, Jill Biden should be tapping him on the shoulder and saying enough.

Pelosi: Congress will discuss rules for Trump's removal under 25th amendment | US politics | The Guardian

Democrats plan to create commission to review president’s fitness for office as speaker warns of ‘disassociation from reality’

amp.theguardian.com

 

[borat]

The fact genocide Joe was allowed to get this far is a huge failing of democratic strategy.

Even the most ardent Biden fans will have seen that his mental facilities have been declining for years and they have had plenty of time to make a change.

 

[Zeberdi]

Pelosi: Congress will discuss rules for Trump's removal under 25th amendment | US politics | The Guardian

Democrats plan to create commission to review president’s fitness for office as speaker warns of ‘disassociation from reality’

amp.theguardian.com

That article refers to Trump and is 4 years old but yes, it hints at the thorny problem I mentioned above, the Dems will find it problematic to ask Biden to step aside because he is not fit to be a Presidential Candidate without also having to deem him unfit to be President under Art 25.

If they invoke Art 25, it also means Kamala Harris would become President - she’s more unpopular than Biden so they would think they would still need to find a Presidential Candidate to fight Trump.

It also means that Trump could accuse the Democrats of fixing the election by removing his weaker opponent of course

As I said, I think if Biden recognises just how poor his performance was and the leaders of the DNC convince Biden to pull out of the race, he will do that for the good of the Country - but he needs an exit strategy that doesn’t paint him unfit enough to finish his first term in office at the same time.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The news will move fast on this.

That’s the thorny problem I mentioned above, the Dems will find it problematic to ask Biden to step aside because he is not fit to be a Presidential Candidate without also having to deem him unfit to be President.

It also means Kamala Harris would become President - she’s more unpopular that Biden
It also means that Trump could accuse the Democrats of fixing the election by removing his weaker opponent.

Harris is an interesting one, from a distance she seems absolutely useless and as you say is more unpopular than biden

But if they overlook her as a short term replacement, how will that affect the female/black vote?

I concur on the election fixing point

Dems has almost check mated themselves here

 

[Zeberdi]

Harris is an interesting one, from a distance she seems absolutely useless and as you say is more unpopular than biden

But if they overlook her as a short term replacement, how will that affect the female/black vote?

I concur on the election fixing point

Dems has almost check mated themselves here

The black vote is a problem already isn’t it.

I’m not sure how well Kamala is liked by black voters, one can’t assume a black candidate necessarily attracts black voters.

However, it is one of the reasons why someone like Sen Cory Booker, who was a strong candidate in 2020 could be an option.

Just seen this dated a few weeks ago - both Cory Booker and Gretchen Whitmer that I mentioned above could be considered replacements

10 Democrats who could replace Biden as the 2024 presidential nominee

President Joe Biden isn't running for reelection after his disastrous June debate performance. These Democrats could potentially step in his place.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I’m not sure how well Kamala is liked by black voters, one can’t assume a black candidate necessarily attracts black voters.

However, it is one of the reasons why someone like Sen Cory Booker, who was a strong candidate in 2020 could be an option.

Just seen this dated a few weeks ago - both Cory Booker and Gretchen Whitmer that I mentioned above could be considered replacements

10 Democrats who could replace Biden as the 2024 presidential nominee

President Joe Biden isn't running for reelection after his disastrous June debate performance. These Democrats could potentially step in his place.

www.businessinsider.com

No agreed, but its going to be such a close run thing, a small amount of change will have a big impact.

I always thought it would end up being Newsom V Desantis with Desantis winning due to California being a mess and Desantis apparent cross party appeal (going by his results in Florida)

Those two are still fair from ideal, however a bit like SKS v Sunak, you can't see them doing anything ridiculous on the world stage

 

[Insel affe]

but he needs an exit strategy that doesn’t paint him unfit enough to finish his first term in office at the same time.

There is always an out, and the opposition will always deem that an escape, you have to pull on heart strings and retiring due to his wife's health and wanting to support her is one that could work she did have cancerous cells removed last year, twisted way out, but could work.

 

[Bozza]

Jon Stewart excellent as ever...

 

[Zeberdi]

There is always an out, and the opposition will always deem that an escape, you have to pull on heart strings and retiring due to his wife's health and wanting to support her is one that could work she did have cancerous cells removed last year, twisted way out, but could work.

Gill Biden is an odd one.

Did you see her walk Biden off the stage (it made him look even weaker) but then CNN cut to her after the debate egging on Biden supporters, being all loud an energetic as if overcompensating for her husband’s physical frailty, congratulating her him on a great performance.

Maybe it’s not Joe but Gill Biden the Dem leaders would need to convince to get Biden to step aside?

Edit - That Jon Stewart video - ROFLMHO

 

[JJ McClure]

The Democrats do love picking someone who can't win a two horse race. Think John 'charisma of a piece of wood' Kerry or Hillary 'hated by 50% of the country' Clinton and now Joe 'time for the knackers yard' Biden.

 

[BBassic]

Jon Stewart excellent as ever...

Was just about to post this. I'm only 6 minutes in but, incredibly, I'm actually glad we've at least got the choice of Sunak or Starmer.

Compared to these two geriatrics our incumbent and presumptive look absolutely brilliant.

 

[albionalba]

All deeply scary to view.

I've posted this on the books thread but just for anyone who thinks that the lose/lose outcome from this contest doesn't affect us they should read Angus Hanton's Vassal State: How America Runs Britain. I didn't add the Amazon link here as that would just be reinforcing the message from said book.

 

[Jackthelad]

Think it's too late and the damage is done.

They should have gone for Trump after this election and should have replaced Biden

If they lose they have done it to themselves

Last night was so bad question should be about how they can go about removing Biden now.

He's been like this for about 3 years or more, he's senile, there are just countless videos of him doing strange shit, either being very odd with young kids on stage or suddenly losing where he is on stage and in his speech. American politics is in such a bad state that these two are the top contenders for most powerful job in the world.

 

[Withdean South Stand]

I am a big fan of Joe Biden, he's a genuinely empathetic and lovely man and he has had an excellent presidency. But he should step aside at this point and allow a younger candidate to stand and potentially serve for 8 years to finally end the MAGA movement. Obviously, Biden's performance last night was not good and it probably should be a moment of clarity for the Democratic party.

It's Pete Buttigieg's time to become president. I completely believe any Democratic candidate will defeat Trump, as he represents a minority of the country on such a broad range of issues.

 

[Commander]

If I was a US citizen who wasn't interested in politics and just watched the highlights reel from that debate, I would 100% vote Trump. And sadly there will be a lot of people like that.

The Dems need to change Biden for somebody else immediately, or they are going to lose this election.

 

[Withdean South Stand]

If I was a US citizen who wasn't interested in politics and just watched the highlights reel from that debate, I would 100% vote Trump. And sadly there will be a lot of people like that.

The Dems need to change Biden for somebody else immediately, or they are going to lose this election.

Then you would be voting based on personalities rather than the issues. A vote for Trump is a vote for destroying norms, incompetence at all levels of government, total bans on abortion, no infrastructure investment, no vision for the future other than trying to stay in the past. No regulation on the development and application of Artificial Intelligence. Tax cuts for the wealthiest few. He will once again increase the national debt, undermine global treaties and destabilise democracies around the world. Trump is a cancer to global society and votes for him are votes for chaos, hatred and the most dangerous presidential candidate there has ever been.

But you're right. Sadly, there will be lots of people who think it's a game or a popularity contest and if enough of those people vote for Trump they will suffer the consequences for years. Like the UK with Brexit, stuck with the consequences of the stupidity of the minority of the country who voted to Leave. At least Trump would be gone within 4 years (or change the law of the country to try and hang around) and they can get someone with competence and dignity to put the country back on the right path.