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[Politics] The 2024 US Election - *MATCH DAY*

Who will win the 2024 Presidential Election?

  • President Joe Biden - Democrat

    Votes: 3 0.7%
  • Donald Trump - Republican

    Votes: 173 41.9%
  • Vice President, Kamala Harris - Democrat

    Votes: 217 52.5%
  • Other Democratic candidate tbc

    Votes: 20 4.8%

  • Total voters
    413
  • This poll will close: .


Curious Orange

Punxsatawney Phil
Jul 5, 2003
10,227
On NSC for over two decades...
Populists prosper when a significant percentage of people think that they are being ignored or mispresented. I think @Zeberdi has quite well outlined a number of key issues that have brought us to the current global discontent where the choices made by the political minority have the appearance of being made without consideration as to how they effect the electorate.
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,146
Faversham
Who’s running the asylum though?
The people, sadly. Or perhaps not sadly.

It is what it is.

Humans are on a learning curve and are perhaps still near the bottom of it. At least we no longer raid the next village, killing the men, stealing the food and raping the women, like we have done from time to time for most of our existence.

As I explain to my students, our autonomic nervous system is still pretty much as it has evolved, over the millennia, to manage our need to fight, kill, rape and run away.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
53,183
Goldstone
Humans are on a learning curve and are perhaps still near the bottom of it. At least we no longer raid the next village, killing the men, stealing the food and raping the women, like we have done from time to time for most of our existence.

The Russians still do.
 


Crawley Dingo

Political thread tourist.
Mar 31, 2022
1,080
The Muller Inquiry? The one that concluded that Russia did interfere with the 2016 election, but while it couldn't provide sufficient evidence that Mr Trump directly colluded with Russia in that interference, it could not exonerate him of obstructing the Inquiry itself.

Yes, that definitely gave me pause for thought.

He was set up if you have been following the story properly.
 


Crawley Dingo

Political thread tourist.
Mar 31, 2022
1,080
Goodness me.

Please point out where I have been at all rude to you. Or underhand, or disingenuous.

I have been perfectly polite throughout all my exchanges with you.
My apologies you are correct but i hope you understand that for everypost i make here I get 3 or more responses that range from polite to rude to batshit crazy and it gets very tiresome.
 






Crawley Dingo

Political thread tourist.
Mar 31, 2022
1,080
Not sure why I’m (or any of us!) still replying to you tbh - given the way you have repeatedly responded to my posts with rudeness and name calling on this thread. You know full well my comment re,Trump being incarcerated at Fulton was a joke relating to your statement that he ‘left Fulton jail’ in your post above. 🙄

As for the second part of your post, I don’t need to explain why something occurred in order to attempt to define it but I will accept your question based as it was on the premise that my definition of populism in my earlier post was acceptable to you:

As for why populism has pervaded global politics in the last decade or so, that is another issue altogether but off the top of my head, I’ll give a response as such, and google a few links to back up my assertion - but this is with the proviso that the concept of ‘populism’ has many different tangents and is expressed in a number of different ways, so a single definition of what constitutes populist policies is impossible as each Country/region has it’s own set of political conditions. Having said that, the populist movements we have seen in the past few decades have some common underlying themes imo and are related to some specific factors:

  • 9/11 - The global war on terror (9 post-9/11 wars) by the US and allies, has directly resulted in mass population displacements (possibly up to 59 million) and created up to 12 million global cross border refugees between 2011-2019. Those figures only include areas that the US/allied forces have directly been fighting in as the war on terror but there have been other conflicts too that have arisen as a knock on effect such as those caused by the Arab Spring uprisings; or refugees and asylum seekers resulting from the withdrawal/repositioning of US troops in places like Afghanistan and Syria . It doesn’t include the war in Ukraine. Sharp increases in the intake of refugees and asylum seekers into Countries already experiencing depleted resources and growing pressure on public services has triggered a backlash in those Countries accepting them. This combined with anti-Muslim sentiment arising from 9/11 itself and subsequent terror based organisations gaining strongholds in the ME and Africa, has provided one of the main policy ideas of populist movements, that of anti-immigration and Islamophobic sentiment.

  • South American increase in violence and extreme poverty As far as the US is concerned, ironically, movement of economic migrants of Mexicans into the US decreased in the mid-2000s when the Great Recession of 2008 hit construction industry (which had a large Mexican workforce) deterring migrants and coinciding with better economic conditions in Mexico. However, growing violence, extreme poverty and racism in places like Equador, Columbia, Haiti and Venezuela have resulted the movement of millions of asylum seekers making the arduous journey into Mexico to cross the Mexican border into the US - public Anti-immigration sentiment in response to this rising migration in the US has been fuelled and scapegoated by the far right and found it’s way in to mainstream right wing populist politics.

  • The rise of Eurosceptism - the combination of growing European integration (and its consequential bureaucracy and growing body of legislation/rules) and global economic crisis in 2008 gave rise to dissatisfaction that the EU was not helping to solve people’s problems, small businesses were going to the wall and interest rates and inflationary pressures were resulting in mortgage defaults as a result of negative equity. Far right political parties and at their core, nationalism, gained strength on scapegoating the EU - this was particularly true in France, Sweden and the Netherlands - Mainstream political parties began to see electoral milage in eurosceptic policy platforms.

  • Globalisation of trade and cheap foreign labour (both imported and in situ at source) hit areas/regions that had struggled to adapt to internal levels of high unemployment (in part caused by technological/digitalisation of traditional industries in the past several decades) and as Western domestic manufacturing industries started to collapse. Free trade movement and labour movement within the EU and the flooding of Western markets with cheap imports from the growing industrial and productive strength of the tiger economies gave rise to isolationist economic policies and anti-imported labour (particularly into the NHS and Agriculture) - another foundational aspect of right wing populist ideology.

  • Climate Change - Since the Kyoto Agreement on Climate Change in 1997, subsequent treaties have imposed more and more stringent targets on reducing the impact of fossil fuels - the cost and inconvenience of ‘being responsible guardians of the planet’ has resulted in a backlash against policies designed to combat climate change. Anti-pro Climate Change policies and even Climate Change deniers have become a common theme in the rise of populism in past decade, culminating in Trump withdrawing from the Paris Agreement and various mainstream parties rolling back on their ‘green‘ commitments. Anti-environmental sentiment, once espouse by conspiracy theorists and Climate Change deniers has been popularised by the rise of far right politics into the mainstream in the past decade. Huge protests against the rising cost of green taxes/levies on fossil fuel use have been compounded by the war in Ukraine and more recently the war in Gaza. Climate Change has become a highly politicised issue dividing the left and right spectrum of political thinking and has been weaponised by the right - ’a new poll by YouGov for The Economist found that whereas 87% of Biden voters believed that climate change was caused by human activity, only 21% of Trump voters agreed’.

  • Covid Pandemic - ‘As populist parties in particular thrive, if not even depend, on crises, the link between populism and various aspects of the recent COVID-19 crisis is of great interest to social scientists’. Trump and Bolsonaro both populist, right wing leaders, played down the seriousness of the pandemic, as did some far left groups, yet there was a populist backlash against the severity of lockdown measures and social distancing regulations which provided perfect fodder for right wing conspiracy theorist and the anti-establishment sentiment, a central tenet of ‘populism’ to exploit. Populist parties globally boosted their position by politicising the pandemic for anti-establishment fervour and presenting themselves as the ‘only ones capable’ of ‘dealing with the crisis’.


There are more reasons why there has been a rise in global movements of populism but these are some of the main ones imo that I’ve pulled out - but your very broad and open question has necessitated a far too long answer as it is so I’ll leave it there.:wink:



See my post above, seriously I'm not going through all that, its a holiday. Being brief, precise and to the point is the way to go on message boards. I have no wish to spend much more than 30 mins on here preferably browsing football threads.
 


Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,948
See my post above, seriously I'm not going through all that, its a holiday. Being brief, precise and to the point is the way to go on message boards. I have no wish to spend much more than 30 mins on here preferably browsing football threads.
Then don’t read my posts. it’s simple.

Seriously, you are adding very little to the debate on this thread, despite some of us endlessly trying to accommodate your POV and despite your rudeness and name calling so perhaps you would do well to focus on the football threads as you said tbh because although your political POV is welcome as is anybody’s, your attitude towards other posters is not.
 
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Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,270
Cumbria
Seriously, you are adding very little to the debate on this thread, despite some of us endlessly trying to accommodate your POV and despite your rudeness and name calling so perhaps you would do well to focus on the football threads as you said tbh because although your political POV is welcome as is anybody’s, your attitude towards other posters is not.
Their last post on a football thread seems to be back in January some time!
 


Crawley Dingo

Political thread tourist.
Mar 31, 2022
1,080
Then don’t read my posts. it’s simple.

If you continue to respond to my posts with rudeness, I will put you on ignore - Not once on this thread have I made personal digs about you or been rude, I have

Or perhaps is because you know I outsmart you on the arguments each time that rather than address the points intelligently your response is to attack me instead? I’m not going to be advised by one of the biggest trolls on this thread on how I should write my posts 😡
And their you are being rude, saying you have TDS isn't rude as I pointed out the lack of conciliatory points. Calling your scroll bombs mental gymnastics isn't rude. For example if trumps a racist post a direct quote and source, or Utube with a timestamp if its long as it really is that simple. Pointing to an industry wide problem 55 years ago when trump was in his 20s and his father ran the company is evidence of nothing.

I think its best if we avoid each other in this thread.
 






Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
25,929
Like football, that video is a game of two halves.

It's interesting, but I don't know why the author felt the need to attack wokeism.
Same here. A good watch. But I think seeing Wokeism as being a thing is a subjective bias that calls us to join a side. There are some cultural attitudes that I feel have changed for the better, some which I don't really understand, and others that I'm not on board with. To lump them together as one only gives me a for or against option. The very thing he calls rational thinking to oppose.
 


Curious Orange

Punxsatawney Phil
Jul 5, 2003
10,227
On NSC for over two decades...
He was set up if you have been following the story properly.
Muller was set up? Or Trump?

All I know is that the Muller investigation was commenced by the DoJ under President Trump, and concluded whilst he was still in office.
 


BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,204
Then don’t read my posts. it’s simple.

If you continue to respond to my posts with rudeness, I will put you on ignore - Not once on this thread have I made personal digs about you or been rude, I have even defended you on a number of occasions when people have baited you, saying that you have a right to argue your POV - Yet, you have repeatedly trolled me with name calling and accusing me of lying, of ‘swallowing fake news’ of fabricating my sources and far worse. And now because a few other posters have attacked the length of my posts, you think you will jump on the bandwagon and use that to bully me into silence about my arguments about Trump.

You asked me a direct question a wide sweeping question btw, why populism has arisen globally over the last few decades (literally a question that can not be answered adequately in a 5 line paragraph as you well knew) - I answered it as succinctly as possible.

Read back on the thread, I am not the only poster who has often written long posts on here or on other threads, so reign it in. Or perhaps is because you know I outsmart you on the arguments each time that rather than address the points intelligently your response is to attack me instead? I’m not going to be advised by one of the biggest trolls on this thread on how I should write my posts 😡

How about changing your attitude a bit eh?









Seriously, you are adding very little to the debate on this thread, despite some of us endlessly trying to accommodate your POV and despite your rudeness and name calling so perhaps you would do well to focus on the football threads as you said tbh because although your political POV is welcome as is anybody’s, your attitude towards other posters is not.
If you look at his posting history he never posts on football related threads.
 




Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,948
If you look at his posting history he never posts on football related threads.
I have no intention of wasting my time browsing his posting history and don’t particularly care where he posts thanks, I was just suggesting he follow his own desire to post on here less and focus on the football threads

I have no wish to spend much more than 30 mins on here preferably browsing football threads
I spent a lot of time drafting a full response to his question about populism and just got a rude response instead so really can’t be bothered with him anymore frankly - I have tried to be polite and informative when he asks me direct questions but he’s just wasting my time consistently.
 


BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,204
I don’t particularly care where he posts thanks, I was just suggesting he follow his own desire to post on here less and focus on the football threads


I spent a lot of time drafting a full response to his question about populism and just got a rude response instead so really can’t be bothered with him anymore frankly - I have tried to be polite and informative when he asks me direct questions but he’s just wasting my time consistently.

No offence meant, I was just pointing out that you are probably on the money that he is a second account or a troll.
 


Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,948
No offence meant, I was just pointing out that you are probably on the money that he is a second account or a troll.
I didn’t take offence 🙂. I just can’t be bothered to spend any more time on people who can’t be civil and respectful to those who have a different POV than them on things. I have no further interest in his trolling behaviour which btw has been obvious not just to me but many other posters here.

I believe it is important for those supporting Trump to participate in the thread for healthy debate but personal insults and trolling adds nothing to that end.

(Personally I believe he is also ‘Spence’ - another a trolling account, who is MAGA obsessed but that’s neither here nor there.. )
 


chickens

Have you considered masterly inactivity?
NSC Patron
Oct 12, 2022
2,694
A surreal experience since CD went on ignore. A CD post, followed by a string of people trying to show them the error of their ways.

I suspect CD knows precisely what they’re doing, there is either a form of vulnerability there, or they are an accomplished “bad actor” without any sense of belief in their words, but willing to keep others strung along responding to them.

I fear all arguments fall on the same deaf ears. I can thoroughly recommend the ignore function, it brings balm to a weary soul.
 




Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
31,269
This thread has been ruined. Well done guys.
 




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