[Politics] The 2024 US Election - *MATCH DAY*

[US Seagull]

Firstly its not about Trump, its a movement and a global one against corrupt establishments that are screwing everything up. Trump just happens to be at the tip of it. Even if Trump was catapulted into outer space the movement will go on.

I know if I wanted to fight against "the corrupt establishment", I would definitely pick one of the most corrupt failed businessmen in the world as my figurehead.

Fight fire with fire? I dunno?

 

[Albion my Albion]

Firstly its not about Trump, its a movement and a global one against corrupt establishments that are screwing everything up. Trump just happens to be at the tip of it. Even if Trump was catapulted into outer space the movement will go on.

There is no way that Trump does NOT think it is about Trump. How does the "tip" of the movement that is against corrupt establishments do so many corrupt things?

And again the Trump Republicans are giving the Democrats way too much credit for getting corrupt things done in a presidential election while they aren't intelligent enough to get more Democrats elected to the House of Representatives which is almost as important as getting a Democrat elected president.

Oh, that's right, it's not a movement about Trump.

Trump is now up to US $15,000.00 in fines and the judge that has the power is threatening to jail Trump. The judge has now said that Trump is not credible when he said he was commenting about Michael Cohen and not an official of the court, the clerk.

 

[BadFish]

Firstly its not about Trump, its a movement and a global one against corrupt establishments that are screwing everything up. Trump just happens to be at the tip of it. Even if Trump was catapulted into outer space the movement will go on.

Could you post information on your (let's say) top five occasions when Trump has fixed any corruption?

I'd even settle for when he has attempted to.

 

[BadFish]

Theres way to much to unpack in that post. I dont assign value to sources i just try to access the information.

The problem here is that you should do. If you can't see that some sources are better than other then you see everything as equal and end up believing any old shit.

Perhaps you need to rethink this thought process. Consider who is funding or doing deals with the sources you access and consider their motives.

 

[Klaas]

Theres way to much to unpack in that post.

A 3 paragraph post on a football forum, with no paragraph going over 3 lines, is 'too much to unpack'? Says it all really.

 

[MJsGhost]

I find it so incredibly hard to understand why so many are so duped by a fat old man who is inarticulate, rambly and with a hideously ugly personality and vision of the country. What's to like? His businesses chronically fail so he's not particularly successful. He should be national laughing stock but for some reason he's got a huge pack of people following his every move.

I think it's important to remember that in the grand scheme of things, the US as a civilised democratic society is a toddler.
It's not that long since the Wild West where people could (and did) just shoot people to take what they wanted. It really isn't long ago at all since black people were being lynched.
It's a country of huge division that people from different backgrounds and in different locations experience in a very different way. There are a lot of people who have an axe to grind because they see their shit life as the fault of others.

Then you've got the powerful, influential, rich people whose wealth would be threatened by anyone wanting to curb free market capitalism and (heaven forfend), sort out some of the massive inequalities.

Trump has won support from Republicans because he seems to have the knack of whipping up the hatred amongst the disaffected, putting the blame on the woke libtards. These are mostly poorly educated and often hold some views that a mature, civilised society does not tolerate (racism, misogyny, homophobia etc), or are deeply religious (which acts as cover for racism, misogyny, homophobia etc in some cases). They flock to someone they see as successful, someone who is part of the rich elite, yet "tells it as it is". They even like that he is heard bragging about grabbing women by the pussy and all the other unsavoury stuff because it helps justify what they see as 'misdemeanours' that they've been accused of in the past - "THESE DAYS you can't do/say anything without getting into trouble".

Where there is such huge inequality, it's easy to pin the blame on the 'elites' who have so much, yet want to (e.g.) take their guns away...

In a society where ranchers became successful by wiping out the indigenous population not too long ago, or where local sheriffs were lauded for leading lynchings even more recently, it's not hard to see why people in positions of authority are held to a lower standard (by large elements of the population, even if not by law).

TLDR? America is a f***ing basket case once you look beyond the bright lights of the cosmopolitan cities and Trump is an effective rabble-rouser.

 

[Weststander]

2024 … is that gross tonnage?

 

[chickens]

Theres way to much to unpack in that post. I dont assign value to sources i just try to access the information. I dont expect you to believe whats in the Mail as if that differs much from the other rags. But understanding different arguments and a range of them helps you triangulate ideological positions and possibly anticipate actions.

BBC verified is trash and has already been reported to the ombudsman for claims it has made about people.

Red pill time.

If the MSM lies by omission then how do fact checkers work?

I strongly recommend that you start assigning values to sources.

 

[Crawley Dingo]

Dig a little deeper - see what is happening - yes it’s a movement and yes it’s global and yes it will continue without Trump. But it is not ‘Trumpism’ - you are right, that is just the tip, the demagoguery required to popularise it - the movement that you are aspiring to and supporting is growing up out of grass roots far-right extremism- and it’s threatening democratic-styled governance on every continent.

It’s the politics of hate espoused by Netanyahu, Trump, Bolsonaro, Le Pen, Meloni/Berlusconi etc who all take advantage of vulnerable, stressed people living in a climate of fear and poverty.

In American in particular…

“The white nationalist ideology which inspired Payton Gendron to travel 200 miles to massacre 10 people in a Black Buffalo neighborhood is becoming as American as cherry pie.”

The Age of Insurrection review: how the far right rose – and found Trump | Books | The Guardian

David Neiwert offers a necessary and chilling read about American extremists and the threat they pose to us all

amp.theguardian.com

And demagogues like Trump are making the ground fertile for its growth by preaching a reactionist message - ‘seeking support by appealing to the desires and prejudices of ordinary people rather than by rational argument’

But in doing so, he’s forging a path for a political transformation to something more sinister - far right extremists politics are becoming more mainstream and civil liberties increasingly curtailed, elections undermined with riots and denial of results, groups demonised according to race, colour and sexuality ….it’s a big red warning light for democracy

That’s not ‘draining the swamp’, it’s throwing anyone that speaks out against you into the swamp to be eaten by the crocodiles (then shooting the crocodiles because they know what you did)

Thats a lot of disinformation you have swallowed there, still well done on moving beyond the previous 3 it doesn't exist posts. Now you reach the point where to prove that them be nazis you give examples of...er what lefties are saying? Seriously?

Here why not check out some more sane leftwing media.

 

[Crawley Dingo]

So if this big corrupt establishment is so all powerful, how come Trump got elected? Because if they're so inept then they can't be running everything as you claim.

CCN said 98% chance of Clinton win, they were not expecting it. Now I dont know wether the election was rigged but Giving Pensylvania 3 days after the vote to count postal votes looks a bit dodgy at least.

 

[Zeberdi]

CCN said 98% chance of Clinton win, they were not expecting it. Now I dont know wether the election was rigged but Giving Pensylvania 3 days after the vote to count postal votes looks a bit dodgy at least.

Why would the Democrats rig the election in favour of Trump?

 

[A1X]

CCN said 98% chance of Clinton win, they were not expecting it. Now I dont know wether the election was rigged but Giving Pensylvania 3 days after the vote to count postal votes looks a bit dodgy at least.

So is it more important for all votes to be counted or for an arbitrary deadline to be in place?

 

[Zeberdi]

Thats a lot of disinformation you have swallowed there, still well done on moving beyond the previous 3 it doesn't exist posts. Now you reach the point where to prove that them be nazis you give examples of...er what lefties are saying? Seriously?

Here why not check out some more sane leftwing media.

We need to raise the level of conversation here -

• Firstly - I don’t ‘swallow information’ - I chew it first with an open mind
• Secondly - my post referred to events that we all see reported on all mainstream news - not ‘lefty ideas’ but events that have happened- unless you think the storming of the Capitol was fake news along with Trump trying to undermine people’s faith in the Electoral system by calling the Election fraudulent? - or it’s fake news that far-right wing politicians are gaining mainstream popularity throughout Europe? or fake news that civil liberties are being radically curtailed and that politics of hate is aimed at blacks, Latinos, Mexicans, women, gays, Muslims etc or that Steve Bannon ex adviser to Trump is actively supporting Bolsonaro ? etc etc
• Not everyone here has a left-wing political agenda and not everything is a Democratic conspiracy you know. Some of us are just pointing out the facts ( not the ‘alternative facts’ as proffered by Kellyanne Conway) but ‘fact checked facts’
• Im not ‘insane’ to refer you to actual events but I would be insane to turn a blind eye to them.

PS I didn’t mention ‘Nazis’ and am not trying to prove anyone is one - I don’t use the word as casually as you seem to since it reminds me of a very painful part of history.

 

[Curious Orange]

The saddest thing about the whole situation in the States is the appearance that they've gone beyond actually debating anything at all with any sense of aiming for a consensus opinion on any given subject.

You'd think that a country that is basically dominated by two conservative parties would be able to agree on at least some things, but they seem to have descended into the attitude of if our opponents are for something we're against it.

 

[Weststander]

The saddest thing about the whole situation in the States is the appearance that they've gone beyond actually debating anything at all with any sense of aiming for a consensus opinion on any given subject.

You'd think that a country that is basically dominated by two conservative parties would be able to agree on at least some things, but they seem to have descended into the attitude of if our opponents are for something we're against it.

There’s a policies chasm between the Republicans and Democrats, there has been since at least the 1990’s. Some Republicans think they have a god given right to power, the hate started when Clinton won. The Tea Party movement, Christian fundamentalists, fascists/racists raising their ugly head, Bannon and gun carrying anti-government loons have taken much of the Republican Party far to the right.

The adage that they’re essentially both conservative parties separated by their views on abortion, was never accurate.

Man’s damage to the planet, gun ownership, ethnic minorities rights, taxation, abortion, equal opportunities, workers rights, healthcare for the poor masses, social programmes ….. they believe in polar opposites.

 

[Curious Orange]

I agree with you @Weststander to a certain extent, the Republican and Democrat parties are indeed poles apart. I should perhaps have elaborated and said that there is no equivalence between them and the Conservative and Labour parties in this country. From my observation the Republican party doesn't have an equivalent in this country, and the Democrats are only marginally left of the current iteration of the Conservatives.

There really doesn't appear to be anything remotely socialist, let alone Marxist, in US politics, despite the protestations of certain people and groups.

 

[Weststander]

I agree with you @Weststander to a certain extent, the Republican and Democrat parties are indeed poles apart. I should perhaps have elaborated and said that there is no equivalence between them and the Conservative and Labour parties in this country. From my observation the Republican party doesn't have an equivalent in this country, and the Democrats are only marginally left of the current iteration of the Conservatives.

There really doesn't appear to be anything remotely socialist, let alone Marxist, in US politics, despite the protestations of certain people and groups.

The increasingly prominent Gym Jordan wing of the Republicans I’d liken to fringe but prominent UK politicians such as Farage. They tick similar boxes on low taxation, ‘small government’, destruction of the planet, guns.

 

[Mental Lental]

Man’s damage to the planet, gun ownership, ethnic minorities rights, taxation, abortion, equal opportunities, workers rights, healthcare for the poor masses, social programmes ….. they believe in polar opposites.

They're not really polar opposites though. If I was to summarise how I see the Dems vs the Rs on these issues it would be something like this.....

Climate: R = Climate change does not exist and is not a problem.
D = Climate change exists. Perhaps we should look at making a few inadequate changes as to where we get out energy from.

Guns: R = No gun control of any kind.
D = We might ban assault rifles.

Ethinic minorities: R = Pretend racism doesn't exist. Stop teaching about our racist history in schools.
D = Racism exists. We should teach about it in schools. Maybe take down some of those confederate statues glorifying slave ownership. No rush though.

Taxation: R = Lower taxes for the rich. Make up the shortfall by squeezing it from the poor. Or don't even bother and just get more into debt.
D = Try and find a taxation level that gives the average worker enough money to at least pay for essential things like housing and food.

Abortion: R = Women should have no rights to bodily autonomy.
D = Women should have rights to their own bodily autonomy.

Equal opportunities: R = White male Christians should be given the priority in our job market.
D = The most qualified person should get the job. It's better for the economy.

Workers rights: R = No unions. No rights. We can hire or fire as we please. Maximise working hours, minimise paid leave. Call people lazy if they don't want to do this.
D = We should probably raise the minimum wage and try and reach a level of workers rights that is at least in the same ball park as other civilised countries.

Healthcare and social programs : R = We're gonna scrap all these in order to pay for the aforementioned tax cuts for the rich.
D = We should at least have some form of healthcare and social security for people without jobs.

Obviously you'd have to be either an idiot or a prick to actually look at the R policies and think "yep that's my team!" But to say the Dems are polar opposites just isn't true.

 

[Zeberdi]

Obviously you'd have to be either an idiot or a prick to actually look at the R policies and think "yep that's my team!" But to say the Dems are polar opposites just isn't true.

I think @Weststander has a point, Republican and Democrats are diametrically opposed on many areas of policy but I agree with you, that on the political spectrum of left to right, both have been right of centre (one far more more than the other) - of course, in American politics where Congress is split between two Houses - unless one Party holds the majority in both, the Republicans and Democrats can and do appear even more diametrically opposed - policy difference is almost irrelevant in the battle for political supremacy. ‘Politics’ is the art of making the impossible, possible, the Dems and Reps in recent years have both been equally adept at making politics impossible.

 

[Zeberdi]

Trump’s verbal Gaffes

Trump has repeatedly attacked ‘sleepy Joe’ for his ‘lack of acuity’ but when you start totting these recent ones up, Trump’s mental acuity is increasingly under the spotlight

• Apparently Trump beat Obama in 2016
• We haven‘t yet had WW2
• The President of Turkey is Viktor Orbán, (PM of Hungary)
• Hungary shares a border with Russia
• Sioux City, Iowa, is apparently Sioux City Falls (in South Dakota)

Edit - And Happy Orange Face Day to the Donald