[Albion] Thank you TB, PB and CH. I think I'm going insane!

[Bold Seagull]

As I said before, not questioning the original selection and would have expected that. Its that the fact we don't bother with any attempt to change in the second half with a view to winning the game. Why have the likes of Stephens and Knockaert on the bench if you have no intention of using them. Why not give those spaces to other youngsters?

Why are you assuming that he had no intention of using them? Had we been a goal behind much earlier, or an injury then they would have been needed. CH is the same in many tight league games where he doesn't make a change. Are you saying our multi million pound signings can't play 90mins? I'm more worried that certain players we have high hopes for weren't able to make an impression.

He showed faith in his squad and given most of them haven't played a full 90mins, he let them complete the game rather than show a lack of faith with a raft of substitutions at 0-0. Could easily have gone the other way.

Surely the biggest worry of the night isn't how seriously we take the cup, it's what we'll do if Murray gets injured!!??

 

[DavidRyder]

Merge it with the Scottish League cup, might get some more interest in it.

I'm liking that idea. Probably logistical nightmare but an interesting option. Even if it was just the final that the top team in each country played each other. Alternate the final between Wembley and Hampden Park. I guess we might have to involve Wales too though...

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I'm liking that idea. Probably logistical nightmare but an interesting option. Even if it was just the final that the top team in each country played each other. Alternate the final between Wembley and Hampden Park. I guess we might have to involve Wales too though...

I was thinking from the 1/4

It may at least give some interesting games at that stage.

Keep it as it is till that point.

 

[DavidRyder]

I was thinking from the 1/4

It may at least give some interesting games at that stage.

Keep it as it is till that point.

I think a British cup of some sort is a good idea, but not sure it would ever happen, what with the constant need to protect the top teams here with less games, no replays, no extra time etc.

 

[Lankyseagull]

I didn't go to the game last night as I was working away in the Midlands yesterday.

Now that we are a PL club, I would dearly love us to go on a decent cup run that maybe sees us get to a final at Wembley, however, I am also as much of a realist to understand this is not where the priority lies for now. We are making steady progress and growing the club from all angles, giving us a firm foundation for the future. The squad players had an opportunity to stake their claim for a first team place last night and from my understanding, many did not take that opportunity to show that they were ready. The next two or three transfer windows will enable the management to strengthen where it is needed.

While it is disappointing to lose to our south coast neighbours (especially as they are a PL rival who, until last night, had not registered a win this season), the bigger picture is the priority for now and I trust in the management and their judgment in how our direction is maintained both on and off the pitch.

I am sure our time will come.

 

[drew]

Why are you assuming that he had no intention of using them? Had we been a goal behind much earlier, or an injury then they would have been needed. CH is the same in many tight league games where he doesn't make a change. Are you saying our multi million pound signings can't play 90mins? I'm more worried that certain players we have high hopes for weren't able to make an impression.

He showed faith in his squad and given most of them haven't played a full 90mins, he let them complete the game rather than show a lack of faith with a raft of substitutions at 0-0. Could easily have gone the other way.

Surely the biggest worry of the night isn't how seriously we take the cup, it's what we'll do if Murray gets injured!!??

Errr possibly because it was still 0-0 in the 86th minute with no prospect of extra time!

To be honest, I'm not that too concerned about 'faith in the team' etc. You try to win the game for the benefit of the paying punter. The team you assume he kept on to show faith in them hadn't scored. Try and win the game and then reward those players with another start in the next round!

 

[Badger Boy]

I agree, but I think our injury situation had a lot do with it.

Hughes brought on Redmond and Austin but Southampton have a fully fit squad and he could afford to. Chris would have been very reluctant to risk Knockaert and with Murray clearly not an option we had nobody else to bring on apart from U23s.

If anything I think it exposese our squad size more than a desire to win...

Well, which is it? If Dunk was fit, Balogun would have played. If Bruno was fit, he'd have been in. If Izquierdo was fit, it would probably have been a game for either him or March, whichever wasn't playing in the league. You could also argue that Andone would have been in the side too, so the numbers are there but as you rightly opened with, we have many injuries currently.

 

[Machiavelli]

Errr possibly because it was still 0-0 in the 86th minute with no prospect of extra time!

To be honest, I'm not that too concerned about 'faith in the team' etc. You try to win the game for the benefit of the paying punter. The team you assume he kept on to show faith in them hadn't scored. Try and win the game and then reward those players with another start in the next round!

Am I right in thinking that your beef is really with CH -- and not TB and PB -- and, more specifically, with his failure to really go for it, and his attachment to keeping things tight and hoping to nick things with the odd goal? If so, my view is that this is how he has approached most games in his time in charge.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

A remedy / solution would be to minimise the gap in incomes between the 2 leagues as much as possible so that the probability of relegation and massive change in income wasn't such a factor in decision making when a manager is looking at every edge in order to try to achieve their, and the clubs goal (usually survival or promotion depending on which league they are in to start with)


......ain't ever going to happen.
The PL was set up to strengthen and consolidate the position of the elite clubs in this country and has achieved that aim. The PL wants a massive chasm between them and the Championship. It is by design. They don't want a levelling of the playing field.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Am I right in thinking that your beef is really with CH -- and not TB and PB -- and, more specifically, with his failure to really go for it, and his attachment to keeping things tight and hoping to nick things with the odd goal? If so, my view is that this is how he has approached most games in his time in charge.

Exactly what I was going to reply. This is really about CH not bringing Knockeart on around 70mins. CH thought the side he had on could win the game still, they didn't. He would have wanted to win the tie, but he'd also want to see how those players played under pressure in the closing stages of the game.

The worry for me isn't any great club philosophy or cake or icing, it's that our squad and new signings still have a lot of question marks over their heads.

 

[WilburySeagull]

What happened last night was the foreseeable result of putting together a group of players who have never and probablywill never play as a team in a match more meaningful than last night. You cant expect a group loke that to gel so judging any of them is unrealistic. I understand the need to experiment when you can but maybe we tried too many experiments at once. In particular I dont get playing Gross so far back. Bissouma was the stand out player but it may come down to him or gross in that role.

My only real gripe is that paying supporters are entitled to expect at least a modicum of entertainment and effort from the players for the purchase of a ticket and there was none.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

What happened last night was the foreseeable result of putting together a group of players who have never and probablywill never play as a team in a match more meaningful than last night. You cant expect a group loke that to gel so judging any of them is unrealistic. I understand the need to experiment when you can but maybe we tried too many experiments at once. In particular I dont get playing Gross so far back. Bissouma was the stand out player but it may come down to him or gross in that role.

My only real gripe is that paying supporters are entitled to expect at least a modicum of entertainment and effort from the players for the purchase of a ticket and there was none.

Ain't ever going to change under CH.

 

[drew]

Exactly what I was going to reply. This is really about CH not bringing Knockeart on around 70mins. CH thought the side he had on could win the game still, they didn't. He would have wanted to win the tie, but he'd also want to see how those players played under pressure in the closing stages of the game.

The worry for me isn't any great club philosophy or cake or icing, it's that our squad and new signings still have a lot of question marks over their heads.

Not necessarily Knockaert as I don't see why he was named as a sub if he wasn't going to bring him on with less than 4 minutes remaining with the score 0-0! Should have named different subs or even brought Connolly on 10/15 minutes earlier but it seems you know CH's mind better than me!!

 

[Machiavelli]

Exactly what I was going to reply. This is really about CH not bringing Knockeart on around 70mins. CH thought the side he had on could win the game still, they didn't. He would have wanted to win the tie, but he'd also want to see how those players played under pressure in the closing stages of the game.

The worry for me isn't any great club philosophy or cake or icing, it's that our squad and new signings still have a lot of question marks over their heads.

I have to say that I'm not particularly worried. I think our recruitment this summer was good, as it has been ever since PW has been around. There are question marks, but then there was always going to be at this stage.
Last night showed that you have a lot more experience in your squad when you've had more years in the PL, and that this is easier to show when you haven't got injuries. Despite all that and the result, from what I saw there wasn't a lot in between the two teams -- and the youngsters had a good run-out, Bissouma and Bernardo performed well.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Not necessarily Knockaert as I don't see why he was named as a sub if he wasn't going to bring him on with less than 4 minutes remaining with the score 0-0! Should have named different subs or even brought Connolly on 10/15 minutes earlier but it seems you know CH's mind better than me!!

You clearly feel that at 0-0 with 10, 15, 20 mins to go, you need to make subs to win the game. CH did not. That's football. Why would you have Knocky on the bench – in case someone got injured, that we were 2 nil down at HT, any number of reasons he might be there, but unused. Your reason seems to be that CH had no intention of using him and didn't want to win. One of us is closer to knowing CH's mind most probably.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

and a great Black Sabbath track

 

[ofco8]

To be honest I could make a case for both sides of this argument.

I think the difference was that Hughes had previously been involved in EFL Cup finals and appreciates that fans want their club to win silverware at least once in a generation. He therefore had Austin and Redmond ready to kill us off. This Cup is the best chance for clubs of our size to win silverware.

 

[dazzer6666]

To be honest I could make a case for both sides of this argument.

I think the difference was that Hughes had previously been involved in EFL Cup finals and appreciates that fans want their club to win silverware at least once in a generation. He therefore had Austin and Redmond ready to kill us off. This Cup is the best chance for clubs of our size to win silverware.

Still not that much of a chance really IMO, and CH has to balance the risk of going for it against lousing everything else up.......apart from the usual top 6 only Swansea, Birmingham, Boro and Blackburn have won it in the last 20 years. Saints got to the final a couple of years ago so can understand why they'd make more of an effort.

 

[drew]

You clearly feel that at 0-0 with 10, 15, 20 mins to go, you need to make subs to win the game. CH did not. That's football. Why would you have Knocky on the bench – in case someone got injured, that we were 2 nil down at HT, any number of reasons he might be there, but unused. Your reason seems to be that CH had no intention of using him and didn't want to win. One of us is closer to knowing CH's mind most probably.

You say that would you wait until the 86th minute with the scores level before making a sub. Lets' be honest, there was no indication that anyone was coming on until after they scored! As for CH, think we all know that he is a very cautious manager which, in a league season of 38 games, is not necessarily a bad thing but maybe you need to consider a different approach to knockout competitions?

 

[ewe2]

.....Get into Europe ,play in some tinpot competition that starts in mid August.......And then find we are struggling in the league before we are eliminated ....!!A rethink is needed.Trying to chase that last penney !