[Albion] Thank you (Charlton Fan)

[fataddick]

WHAT WE DONT ****ING DO WHICH YOUR LOT DID WAS ADVERTISE AT BRIGHTON STATION FREE TRAVEL TO PREMIER LEAGUE MATCHES AT THE VALLEY WHEN WE WERE AT GILLINGHAM.

I don't want to further derail this thread by getting into a debate, but it is worth pointing out that in your (CLEAR FROM THE CAPITAL LETTERS) extreme anger you have misremembered an awful lot.

For what it's worth:

1. Valley Express was launched in January 2005 (after the closure of the main Charlton Supporters Club) when the club took over running coaches to games that had previously been done by supporters clubs and expanded the scheme.
2. The big advertising push for the service took place that summer when Valley Express coaches were mentioned prominently on posters advertising Charlton season tickets (of which one was on display at Brighton station) prior to the start of the 2005-6 season.
3. Albion were not playing at Gillingham at this time, but had already been back in Brighton (at Withdean) for six seasons. An important difference to the 'poaching fans' issue (which seems to be the one that most angries you, understandably so based on your misrecollection). The facts are you weren't playing 70+ miles away from the Brighton station advert in North Kent; you were playing a 2-3 minute train journey away.
4. While Gillingham chairman Paul Scally attacked the scheme in the press (could that by why you think you were still playing there?) he was pretty much alone in this. The head of the Gillingham supporters club is quoted in the same articles saying it was fair enough, Charlton were just doing what businesses do, and instead of complaining clubs like Gillingham should be fighting back with their own schemes and offers to attract fans.
5. Valley Express was NEVER free. It was £5 per game when it launched in 2005, it's £10 per game now in 2016.
6. The word 'billboard' suggests something huge. The season tickets and coach ad at Brighton station was an A3 poster, albeit in a prominent position (on the right-hand wall of the central archway entrance, above where the stacks of Brighton Independent newspaper are nowadays). It was up for around a month. I know this as I commuted past it every day, have a semi-photographic memory, and took pictures of it for complaining letters I sent to CAFC and the Argus.
7. The impression you have now seems to suggest that during the PL years Charlton ran buses through central Brighton, where Child Catcher-esque Addicks fans handed out sweets to attract hardcore Brighton fans on board and off to the Valley. Ignoring the issue of what sort of 'fan' switches allegiance anyway (and you could argue that Albion have 'poached' some local 'fans' of Arsenal, Man U etc via Amex STs) the only place in 'Brighton' served - and continuing to be served - by the service is somewhere called Benfield Valley. I've lived in Brighton for 23 years and I haven't got a ****ing clue where Benfield Valley is. Suffice to say, it's hardly the same thing as a Charlton coach sat outside Brighton station on a Withdean matchday.
8. Do you have evidence that Charlton fans were handing out flyers for STs/Valley Express in Worthing (and elsewhere)? Total tossers if so and I share you castigation of them. However, given your other misrecollections, I'm not convinced that any flyers that might have been given out in Sussex (and I can't recall any myself) weren't just being given out by people hired from flyer giving out companies.

Anyway, just wanted to correct a few (fairly major) inaccuracies in your recollection of what I agree was a cynical and potentially plunderous campaign by the people then running the business/promotion side of CAFC. Many apologies for it, but it was a club/business not fan initiative. And, for what it's worth, our current owners are talking about scrapping Valley Express purely because it makes a loss (they're too stupid to realise it pays for itself in terms of the tickets, merch etc bought by those it transports) so feel free to plaster South East London with Amex Express posters - it'll serve the feckers right.

Anyway, I'll shut up now.

 

[Ernest]

I don't want to further derail this thread by getting into a debate, but it is worth pointing out that in your (CLEAR FROM THE CAPITAL LETTERS) extreme anger you have misremembered an awful lot.

For what it's worth:

1. Valley Express was launched in January 2005 (after the closure of the main Charlton Supporters Club) when the club took over running coaches to games that had previously been done by supporters clubs and expanded the scheme.
2. The big advertising push for the service took place that summer when Valley Express coaches were mentioned prominently on posters advertising Charlton season tickets (of which one was on display at Brighton station) prior to the start of the 2005-6 season.
3. Albion were not playing at Gillingham at this time, but had already been back in Brighton (at Withdean) for six seasons. An important difference to the 'poaching fans' issue (which seems to be the one that most angries you, understandably so based on your misrecollection). The facts are you weren't playing 70+ miles away from the Brighton station advert in North Kent; you were playing a 2-3 minute train journey away.
4. While Gillingham chairman Paul Scally attacked the scheme in the press (could that by why you think you were still playing there?) he was pretty much alone in this. The head of the Gillingham supporters club is quoted in the same articles saying it was fair enough, Charlton were just doing what businesses do, and instead of complaining clubs like Gillingham should be fighting back with their own schemes and offers to attract fans.
5. Valley Express was NEVER free. It was £5 per game when it launched in 2005, it's £10 per game now in 2016.
6. The word 'billboard' suggests something huge. The season tickets and coach ad at Brighton station was an A3 poster, albeit in a prominent position (on the right-hand wall of the central archway entrance, above where the stacks of Brighton Independent newspaper are nowadays). It was up for around a month. I know this as I commuted past it every day, have a semi-photographic memory, and took pictures of it for complaining letters I sent to CAFC and the Argus.
7. The impression you have now seems to suggest that during the PL years Charlton ran buses through central Brighton, where Child Catcher-esque Addicks fans handed out sweets to attract hardcore Brighton fans on board and off to the Valley. Ignoring the issue of what sort of 'fan' switches allegiance anyway (and you could argue that Albion have 'poached' some local 'fans' of Arsenal, Man U etc via Amex STs) the only place in 'Brighton' served - and continuing to be served - by the service is somewhere called Benfield Valley. I've lived in Brighton for 23 years and I haven't got a ****ing clue where Benfield Valley is. Suffice to say, it's hardly the same thing as a Charlton coach sat outside Brighton station on a Withdean matchday.
8. Do you have evidence that Charlton fans were handing out flyers for STs/Valley Express in Worthing (and elsewhere)? Total tossers if so and I share you castigation of them. However, given your other misrecollections, I'm not convinced that any flyers that might have been given out in Sussex (and I can't recall any myself) weren't just being given out by people hired from flyer giving out companies.

Anyway, just wanted to correct a few (fairly major) inaccuracies in your recollection of what I agree was a cynical and potentially plunderous campaign by the people then running the business/promotion side of CAFC. Many apologies for it, but it was a club/business not fan initiative. And, for what it's worth, our current owners are talking about scrapping Valley Express purely because it makes a loss (they're too stupid to realise it pays for itself in terms of the tickets, merch etc bought by those it transports) so feel free to plaster South East London with Amex Express posters - it'll serve the feckers right.

Anyway, I'll shut up now.

Under Roland is your club in financial jeopardy ?
Is he planning to sell the ground and relocate god knows where ?
Has he changed the articles of association so he can profit from the sale of the ground ?

 

[Buzzer]

There were adverts for tickets and coaches to Charlton games at Worthing station the first season we played at Gillingham. They went up pretty much a month or two after the Goldstone was demolished and yes, I remember flyers too.

I also remember a few years after that, a Gillingham fan on the radio complaining about Charlton handing out flyers for tickets and travel outside Priestfield on matchdays.

 

[maffew]

I don't want to further derail this thread by getting into a debate, but it is worth pointing out that in your (CLEAR FROM THE CAPITAL LETTERS) extreme anger you have misremembered an awful lot.

For what it's worth:

1. Valley Express was launched in January 2005 (after the closure of the main Charlton Supporters Club) when the club took over running coaches to games that had previously been done by supporters clubs and expanded the scheme.
2. The big advertising push for the service took place that summer when Valley Express coaches were mentioned prominently on posters advertising Charlton season tickets (of which one was on display at Brighton station) prior to the start of the 2005-6 season.
3. Albion were not playing at Gillingham at this time, but had already been back in Brighton (at Withdean) for six seasons. An important difference to the 'poaching fans' issue (which seems to be the one that most angries you, understandably so based on your misrecollection). The facts are you weren't playing 70+ miles away from the Brighton station advert in North Kent; you were playing a 2-3 minute train journey away.
4. While Gillingham chairman Paul Scally attacked the scheme in the press (could that by why you think you were still playing there?) he was pretty much alone in this. The head of the Gillingham supporters club is quoted in the same articles saying it was fair enough, Charlton were just doing what businesses do, and instead of complaining clubs like Gillingham should be fighting back with their own schemes and offers to attract fans.
5. Valley Express was NEVER free. It was £5 per game when it launched in 2005, it's £10 per game now in 2016.
6. The word 'billboard' suggests something huge. The season tickets and coach ad at Brighton station was an A3 poster, albeit in a prominent position (on the right-hand wall of the central archway entrance, above where the stacks of Brighton Independent newspaper are nowadays). It was up for around a month. I know this as I commuted past it every day, have a semi-photographic memory, and took pictures of it for complaining letters I sent to CAFC and the Argus.
7. The impression you have now seems to suggest that during the PL years Charlton ran buses through central Brighton, where Child Catcher-esque Addicks fans handed out sweets to attract hardcore Brighton fans on board and off to the Valley. Ignoring the issue of what sort of 'fan' switches allegiance anyway (and you could argue that Albion have 'poached' some local 'fans' of Arsenal, Man U etc via Amex STs) the only place in 'Brighton' served - and continuing to be served - by the service is somewhere called Benfield Valley. I've lived in Brighton for 23 years and I haven't got a ****ing clue where Benfield Valley is. Suffice to say, it's hardly the same thing as a Charlton coach sat outside Brighton station on a Withdean matchday.
8. Do you have evidence that Charlton fans were handing out flyers for STs/Valley Express in Worthing (and elsewhere)? Total tossers if so and I share you castigation of them. However, given your other misrecollections, I'm not convinced that any flyers that might have been given out in Sussex (and I can't recall any myself) weren't just being given out by people hired from flyer giving out companies.

Anyway, just wanted to correct a few (fairly major) inaccuracies in your recollection of what I agree was a cynical and potentially plunderous campaign by the people then running the business/promotion side of CAFC. Many apologies for it, but it was a club/business not fan initiative. And, for what it's worth, our current owners are talking about scrapping Valley Express purely because it makes a loss (they're too stupid to realise it pays for itself in terms of the tickets, merch etc bought by those it transports) so feel free to plaster South East London with Amex Express posters - it'll serve the feckers right.

Anyway, I'll shut up now.

Just ignore him. There's always going to be a minority

 

[Ernest]

There were adverts for tickets and coaches to Charlton games at Worthing station the first season we played at Gillingham. They went up pretty much a month or two after the Goldstone was demolished.

And at Hove too

 

[The Rattler]

To those who went to the game today, thank you so much for your support on our campaign to get Roland out of our club.

I hope you go up this season so you can smash the Palace.

Anyway, we still hate Palace more than you

1. Er, no you don't.

2. Thought your protests were rather pathetic yesterday - a few beach balls, ha! If you want to be taken seriously, you will have to try a lot harder. Maybe though, minor protests are the right level given your situation is much less significant than ours back then.

3. Notwithstanding the above, met several of your fans yesterday - most were decent. Shame about the couple of w@nkers who tried (and failed) to get me chucked out of your East Stand yesterday.

 

[Hampster Gull]

I don't want to further derail this thread by getting into a debate, but it is worth pointing out that in your (CLEAR FROM THE CAPITAL LETTERS) extreme anger you have misremembered an awful lot.

For what it's worth:

1. Valley Express was launched in January 2005 (after the closure of the main Charlton Supporters Club) when the club took over running coaches to games that had previously been done by supporters clubs and expanded the scheme.
2. The big advertising push for the service took place that summer when Valley Express coaches were mentioned prominently on posters advertising Charlton season tickets (of which one was on display at Brighton station) prior to the start of the 2005-6 season.
3. Albion were not playing at Gillingham at this time, but had already been back in Brighton (at Withdean) for six seasons. An important difference to the 'poaching fans' issue (which seems to be the one that most angries you, understandably so based on your misrecollection). The facts are you weren't playing 70+ miles away from the Brighton station advert in North Kent; you were playing a 2-3 minute train journey away.
4. While Gillingham chairman Paul Scally attacked the scheme in the press (could that by why you think you were still playing there?) he was pretty much alone in this. The head of the Gillingham supporters club is quoted in the same articles saying it was fair enough, Charlton were just doing what businesses do, and instead of complaining clubs like Gillingham should be fighting back with their own schemes and offers to attract fans.
5. Valley Express was NEVER free. It was £5 per game when it launched in 2005, it's £10 per game now in 2016.
6. The word 'billboard' suggests something huge. The season tickets and coach ad at Brighton station was an A3 poster, albeit in a prominent position (on the right-hand wall of the central archway entrance, above where the stacks of Brighton Independent newspaper are nowadays). It was up for around a month. I know this as I commuted past it every day, have a semi-photographic memory, and took pictures of it for complaining letters I sent to CAFC and the Argus.
7. The impression you have now seems to suggest that during the PL years Charlton ran buses through central Brighton, where Child Catcher-esque Addicks fans handed out sweets to attract hardcore Brighton fans on board and off to the Valley. Ignoring the issue of what sort of 'fan' switches allegiance anyway (and you could argue that Albion have 'poached' some local 'fans' of Arsenal, Man U etc via Amex STs) the only place in 'Brighton' served - and continuing to be served - by the service is somewhere called Benfield Valley. I've lived in Brighton for 23 years and I haven't got a ****ing clue where Benfield Valley is. Suffice to say, it's hardly the same thing as a Charlton coach sat outside Brighton station on a Withdean matchday.
8. Do you have evidence that Charlton fans were handing out flyers for STs/Valley Express in Worthing (and elsewhere)? Total tossers if so and I share you castigation of them. However, given your other misrecollections, I'm not convinced that any flyers that might have been given out in Sussex (and I can't recall any myself) weren't just being given out by people hired from flyer giving out companies.

Anyway, just wanted to correct a few (fairly major) inaccuracies in your recollection of what I agree was a cynical and potentially plunderous campaign by the people then running the business/promotion side of CAFC. Many apologies for it, but it was a club/business not fan initiative. And, for what it's worth, our current owners are talking about scrapping Valley Express purely because it makes a loss (they're too stupid to realise it pays for itself in terms of the tickets, merch etc bought by those it transports) so feel free to plaster South East London with Amex Express posters - it'll serve the feckers right.

Anyway, I'll shut up now.

Surprised a real fan would defend what went on at the time. Disappointing. And by the way, what have the current Charlton Board done? Clubs get relegates, clubs get less investment than fans want, clubs change managers too often sometimes blah blah blah. Want to be sympathetic but not sure why. I think this is one of those rare occasions i might be agreeing with [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION]

 

[fataddick]

There were adverts for tickets and coaches to Charlton games at Worthing station the first season we played at Gillingham. They went up pretty much a month or two after the Goldstone was demolished and yes, I remember flyers too.

That's bizarre if that's the case, since the club DEFINITELY didn't start running coaches from Worthing until eight years later (2005).

The Brighton & West Sussex Charlton Supporters Club was based in Worthing and will have most likely have run a minibus to games - was it them advertising?

Bear in mind also that your first season at Priestfield is before we'd ever set in foot in the Premier League (we went up in the playoffs end of that season), so it seems an odd time for the club to be promoting itself so far afield.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

My point stands. You are not being asset stripped you feel you have this god given right. Boo ****ing hoo.

And as for coaches. Well I know we bus people in from hampshire and kent and it is well advertised WITHIN the brighton community - website - programmes etc

WHAT WE DONT ****ING DO WHICH YOUR LOT DID WAS ADVERTISE AT BRIGHTON STATION FREE TRAVEL TO PREMIER LEAGUE MATCHES AT THE VALLEY WHEN WE WERE AT GILLINGHAM.

Also YOU did the same at Gillingham, YOU handed out flyers in Worthing. YOU and YOUR club went beyond the ****ing pale. Even Palace never ever stooped so low.

I still do not understand what any of this has to do with the Charlton fans?

 

[Ernest]

I still do not understand what any of this has to do with the Charlton fans?

So what's Charlton's problems got to do with us then ?

 

[fataddick]

Under Roland is your club in financial jeopardy ?
Is he planning to sell the ground and relocate god knows where ?
Has he changed the articles of association so he can profit from the sale of the ground ?

1. All his investment is loans at 3% interest. The club is currently around £45 million in hock to his holding company. Some would call that financial jeopardy.

2. Possibly - his behaviour is so bizarre we really don't know what his plans are or what the end game will be. Certainly, he has rented out the main ticket office at the Valley as an NHS Call Centre, and there are rumours of an application to replace the club shop with four flats. So who knows?

3. Not as far as I know.

I understand it's hard for people who haven't seen the day to day attrition inflicted by this regime on Charlton fans to understand. This isn't about us being relegated - we went down to League One in 2009 and retained almost all of our season ticket holders (10k out of 11.5k) with no protests of any type. This season 30% of ST holders are boycotting, we've had protests at every home game since January and we'll be lucky to have 5k STs next year.

Talk to fans of the other clubs that Roland Duchatelet owns, all of whom want him out. Talk to fans of Standard Liege. They won the league under his ownership, yet still protested every game. On one occasion several thousand Standard fans gathered on a non-matchday, marched on the ground, broke in and smashed up the boardroom. He sold Standard last July because he'd had enough of the protests (this is one of the things driving the Charlton fans forward).

The bloke's a ****ing maniac. I have no idea WHAT his plans for the club are as there's no logic behind ANYTHING he does. In many ways that's MORE worrying than a bog standard asset stripper. IMHO.

 

[Everest]

So what's Charlton's problems got to do with us then ?

What did our problems in 96/97 have to do with them?

 

[Ernest]

1. All his investment is loans at 3% interest. The club is currently around £45 million in hock to his holding company. Some would call that financial jeopardy.

2. Possibly - his behaviour is so bizarre we really don't know what his plans are or what the end game will be. Certainly, he has rented out the main ticket office at the Valley as an NHS Call Centre, and there are rumours of an application to replace the club shop with four flats. So who knows?

3. Not as far as I know.

I understand it's hard for people who haven't seen the day to day attrition inflicted by this regime on Charlton fans to understand. This isn't about us being relegated - we went down to League One in 2009 and retained almost all of our season ticket holders (10k out of 11.5k) with no protests of any type. This season 30% of ST holders are boycotting, we've had protests at every home game since January and we'll be lucky to have 5k STs next year.

Talk to fans of the other clubs that Roland Duchatelet owns, all of whom want him out. Talk to fans of Standard Liege. They won the league under his ownership, yet still protested every game. On one occasion several thousand Standard fans gathered on a non-matchday, marched on the ground, broke in and smashed up the boardroom. He sold Standard last July because he'd had enough of the protests (this is one of the things driving the Charlton fans forward).

The bloke's a ****ing maniac. I have no idea WHAT his plans for the club are as there's no logic behind ANYTHING he does. In many ways that's MORE worrying than a bog standard asset stripper. IMHO.

Would you be protesting if you were in the top 6 and disrupting matches ?

 

[Ernest]

What did our problems in 96/97 have to do with them?

Read the question about the Charlton supporters for the context, they said it was nothing to do with them about the club trying to poach supporters but they could have done something though, yes or no ?

 

[maffew]

Read the question about the Charlton supporters for the context, they said it was nothing to do with them about the club trying to poach supporters but they could have done something though, yes or no ?

What would you have expected them to do?

 

[Everest]

I ask again, what did our problems in 96/97 have to do with them?

 

[Buzzer]

I still do not understand what any of this has to do with the Charlton fans?

I guess the point he's making is that the Charlton board did something that was very much to the detriment of Brighton fans and the Charlton fans did nothing. There was no Fans United esprit de corps from the CAFC fans when it came to Charlton Athletic cynically trying to dip into our fanbase when we were on our knees. And if you can't quite see what all the fuss is around the current Charlton situation*, then bearing this all in mind this is why he's disinclined to join in CAFC fans' campaign.

*I, like some other on here, don't quite see the comparisons with what happened at Plymouth and Brighton and what is happening at Blackpool right now with what the Charlton board are doing. They aren't asset-stripping, they aren't denying funds to the club. Yes, the Standard Liege relationship is bizarre but from the outside I can't quite see why it's the end of the world.

 

[fataddick]

Would you be protesting if you were in the top 6 and disrupting matches ?

From a personal perspective my protest is a flat out boycott of home games and yes, I was doing that when we were in the top 6 for several weeks at the start of this season.

As for the wider fanbase, a lot football fans only think as far as the last couple of results, so of course the number protesting would be smaller if we were doing better. That's just the way things are, unfortunately.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Would you be protesting if you were in the top 6 and disrupting matches ?

Did you actually read the post you quoted? He said that Standard Liege won their league and still protested. Clubs like us and Charlton have been relegated enough over the years that you don't get situations like yesterday from relegation. I am genuinely stunned by the reaction of a small minority of our supporters on here (who seem to be taking it upon themselves to hijack this and other threads). If it wasn't for clubs like Charlton protesting alongside us in the 90s, we may not have a club to support these days. Just because their situation is not exactly the same, it doesn't make their cause any less important.

 

[Ernest]

I guess the point he's making is that the Charlton board did something that was very much to the detriment of Brighton fans and the Charlton fans did nothing. There was no Fans United esprit de corps from the CAFC fans when it came to Charlton Athletic cynically trying to dip into our fanbase when we were on our knees. And if you can't quite see what all the fuss is around the current Charlton situation*, then bearing this all in mind this is why he's disinclined to join in CAFC fans' campaign.

*I, like some other on here, don't quite see the comparisons with what happened at Plymouth and Brighton and what is happening at Blackpool right now with what the Charlton board are doing. They aren't asset-stripping, they aren't denying funds to the club. Yes, the Standard Liege relationship is bizarre but from the outside I can't quite see why it's the end of the world.

You've summed it up a lot better than many of us could but this is what we've been trying to say but being shouted down all the time.