[Albion] Telegraph Football Writers top defenders

[Deportivo Seagull]

There have been many England teams before this one that were stronger on paper. None of them got to the final of a tournament. Under some absolutely world-class managers too. I can't really understand how people don't think Southgate has done a good job it's bizarre.

Not really. His style of football means that against any team in the world top ten we’ll always lose. The worse thing for us in the final was coring early as you just new he’d go ultra conservative in his approach. Hers too defensive minded and has no plan B.


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[GT49er]

Not really. His style of football means that against any team in the world top ten we’ll always lose. The worse thing for us in the final was coring early as you just new he’d go ultra conservative in his approach. Hers too defensive minded and has no plan B.

Can't beat any team in the top ten? Then how come we're 4th?

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

They won 17 consecutive games in the Euros in qualifying and the finals. They scored more goals than anybody else. What do you mean they weren't good? They were clearly the best team in it.

Most of the rest of what you say makes sense. But as someone said earlier, sometimes managers don't fancy a player, for whatever reason. If he wasn't a Brighton player we wouldn't even be discussing it. If he played for Palace then the vast majority of this board would think Southgate was absolutely right.

He cannot win the big one, the one that matters. 17 consecutive games against also runs doesn’t count. His teams are designed not to lose rather than to win, against the likes of Macedonia et al it works but for the top teams it doesn’t.

My other issue is that the style of football in the premier is moving further away from his style which doesn’t bode well.

As for Dunk. Southgate stated he would only pick players that are on form regardless of who they play for. That is a lie. Remember when Grealish was ripping the premier League a new one, in a struggling team, Southgate passed him over. He did eventually pick him … but only because of injuries ……

Sorry but unless he changes his way we will forever be the bridesmaid ….


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[Harry Wilson's tackle]

They won 17 consecutive games in the Euros in qualifying and the finals. They scored more goals than anybody else. What do you mean they weren't good? They were clearly the best team in it.

Most of the rest of what you say makes sense. But as someone said earlier, sometimes managers don't fancy a player, for whatever reason. If he wasn't a Brighton player we wouldn't even be discussing it. If he played for Palace then the vast majority of this board would think Southgate was absolutely right.

Quite.

I may have posted previously that I think there is a bit of unconscious bullying going on where Southgit is concerned, and I am afraid I have been guilty of it myself.

The man is goofy-looking, 'Palace', doesn't pick Dunk, and we haven't won anything. Ergo.....

The reality is that as others have said he has transformed 'the camp', binned completely the club cliques, and won most of his games playing the sort of attractive football that was unthinkable until Venables' brief (and sabotaged) tenure started to end the cult of sideways passing.

Support the team, have some patience, and enjoy it, isn't it?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'll hazard a guess BumleyStandChat are having a similar discussion about Mee and Tarkers.

Dwight McNeil

Very good player.

 

[Dave the hatosaurus]

Quite.


Support the team, have some patience, and enjoy it, isn't it?

Therein lies the problem for me HWT i simply cannot enjoy watching England at the moment and i am not really sure why .
Maybe an age thing , having hopes dashed over the years , behaviour of players , team selection , tactics or who knows what .
Oh to return to the halcyon days of "66" when as a boy i thought that this was going to be a regular thing !
The main thing though is my love of the Albion remains stratospherically high !!!

 

[Swansman]

He cannot win the big one, the one that matters. 17 consecutive games against also runs doesn’t count. His teams are designed not to lose rather than to win, against the likes of Macedonia et al it works but for the top teams it doesn’t.

My other issue is that the style of football in the premier is moving further away from his style which doesn’t bode well.

As for Dunk. Southgate stated he would only pick players that are on form regardless of who they play for. That is a lie. Remember when Grealish was ripping the premier League a new one, in a struggling team, Southgate passed him over. He did eventually pick him … but only because of injuries ……

Sorry but unless he changes his way we will forever be the bridesmaid ….


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4th in the World Cup and losing the Euros on penalties is pretty much as good as it gets for a nation without one single top class central midfielder

That said, while the results are probably better than you can demand, the performances are often lacklustre and I feel you could easily be a bit more brave with the attacking talent available.

 

[A1X]

Not really. His style of football means that against any team in the world top ten we’ll always lose. The worse thing for us in the final was coring early as you just new he’d go ultra conservative in his approach. Hers too defensive minded and has no plan B.

This, we were also very lucky that we played Germany at probably their worst for 20 years.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

It's good for the club, but tough on Dunky himself. He should have 10s of caps by now............way, way more than Tyrone ****ing Mings (for example), anyway.

It's got nothing at all to do with Southgate being Palace........personally think he's just been incredibly unlucky, including with with timing. Even we all knew that he had a fairly regular rick or red card in him until not too long ago (at least at the time he could have been breaking into the squad, soon after we got promoted) so probably wasn't fully 'trusted' by Southgate (particularly when he had so many other options) to do a job, and now he's pretty much eliminated that, he's 'too old' for how Southgate and the FA operate.

Totally agreed. I even wrote something along those lines in my post and then got rid. I'd be gutted if I was an PL footballer of that quality and hadn't been picked more often. He definitely deserves to be there – but I'm grateful he's not!

 

[Commander]

This, we were also very lucky that we played Germany at probably their worst for 20 years.

We say this every time we beat them. They beat Portugal 4-2 in the very same tournament. Are Portugal the worst they've been for 20 years too?

Some people just can't ever bring themselves to say anything positive about the national side. Presumably it's some kind of coping mechanism after 55 years of hurt.

 

[Machiavelli]

Do people genuinely believe that Gareth Southgate doesn't pick Dunk because he played for Palace over 25 years ago? In a period where we only played each other 9 times in 7 years that he was there. After he went on to make more appearances for both Villa and Middlesbrough than he did for Palace. Do people really, genuinely believe that?

Football fans really are utter ****ing imbeciles sometimes. It never fails to astonish me how stupid people can be when it comes to this sport.

With you all the way. What a load of myopic nonsense on this thread.

 

[Machiavelli]

It would be quite ludicrous if that were indeed the reason Dunk isn't in the England set up.and personally I dont think it is. I think people say that, and some start to actually believe it because, on the face of it, there doesn't seem any reason why Dunk isn't a regular squad member, even if not a starter.

Time and time again he is (often literally) head and shoulders above the rest. He is the heart of the 3rd best defence in the Premier league this season, and has consistently put in world class displays over the past 5 seasons

Frequently mentioned by sports writers, pundits , managers etc as being world class, and demonstrably equal to and often better than the current England players

So why hasn't he featured? There MUST be a reason, even taking off the Blue and White specs its hard to see a footballing reason, so has something happened previously that has stopped Southgate seriously considering him? Is there an attitude problem (seems very unlikely)
, his work rate for Albion is second to none, his discipline was a bit of a problem but hasn't been for years, he seems a team player, and doesnt appear to fail anyone's dick head policies.

I dont think we will ever know, and sadly , I now think its too late for him. Southgate is starting to look to the next generation, so any new additions to the squad will be ones for post 2022 WC, the likes of White for example

Remind us how many red cards he got last season.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

England will probably never have a better chance to win a World Cup or a European Championship than we have done under Southgate. But we missed the boat on both occasions. In the World Cup, the strong teams that we were due to meet were knocked out, allowing us to get to a semi-final - where, after a good start, we were beaten by a team that adjusted tactically while we could not. In the Euros, we had home advantage in every game but one, and reached the final - where, after a good start, ... you know the rest. Plus the decision to put players on specifically to take penalties without warming up - AS WE WERE DEFENDING A CORNER! - was asking for trouble.

Southgate is popular with the players and the media, but he's tactically naive and although I had hopes that he had realised that and done something about it when Graeme Jones was brought in, it didn't seem to make much difference. In contrast, look at the coaching talent and experience there was on the Italy bench to back Mancini up.

 

[nickbrighton]

Remind us how many red cards he got last season.

how many were for nasty dangerous tackles, do you really think his bookings and cards are the reason. A few years ago pre promotion he was suspended time and again for loads of yellows, not any more

 

[dazzer6666]

Remind us how many red cards he got last season.

2 wasn't it ? Pull back on Silva v Wolves when he was clean through, and then in the last minute v Palace desperately trying to win the game and lunging in. 3 in 150 PL games isn't a terrible record, particularly as he's had 26 yellows so has been at risk many times.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

England will probably never have a better chance to win a World Cup or a European Championship than we have done under Southgate. But we missed the boat on both occasions. In the World Cup, the strong teams that we were due to meet were knocked out, allowing us to get to a semi-final - where, after a good start, we were beaten by a team that adjusted tactically while we could not. In the Euros, we had home advantage in every game but one, and reached the final - where, after a good start, ... you know the rest. Plus the decision to put players on specifically to take penalties without warming up - AS WE WERE DEFENDING A CORNER! - was asking for trouble.

Southgate is popular with the players and the media, but he's tactically naive and although I had hopes that he had realised that and done something about it when Graeme Jones was brought in, it didn't seem to make much difference. In contrast, look at the coaching talent and experience there was on the Italy bench to back Mancini up.

Taking off Trippier I believe, who was good enough to score over a wall into the top corner at the last World Cup to bring on Rashford at full back during a corner so he could miss a penalty instead. It would be a great case study in how not to overthink things from the completely other end of the "Who wants one" spectrum 20 years ago.

You are spot on about the coaching talent. Men v boys in the final.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Therein lies the problem for me HWT i simply cannot enjoy watching England at the moment and i am not really sure why .
Maybe an age thing , having hopes dashed over the years , behaviour of players , team selection , tactics or who knows what .
Oh to return to the halcyon days of "66" when as a boy i thought that this was going to be a regular thing !
The main thing though is my love of the Albion remains stratospherically high !!!

Don't be that Grumpy Old Man! Embrace change!

(The main thing is the main thing, though, so enjoy that, as we all hope to do. Barber IN!)

 

[GloryDays]

I’ve been saying it for years…and won’t ever shut up:

Outside of the club and its fans, Lewis Dunk is the most underrated Premier League defender from the modern era.

The guy has got it all, enormous heart, speed, passing ability, leadership, goal-scoring, shot blocking and most of all, consistency.

The fact he hasn’t at least 20 England caps by now, is criminal.

I have also (like many) been saying this to my non-Brighton mates for years. Bizarrely manages to go under the radar still. I feel for him personally but perhaps he's come to terms with being a one club man now. See it out and get the statue. No point moving to Everton or Wolves etc. Top four, for some reason, aren't interested and I'm totally happy with it being that way.

NB That Rooney retirement cap was odd, like it was clearly a one time only deal. Very strange.

 

[Machiavelli]

2 wasn't it ? Pull back on Silva v Wolves when he was clean through, and then in the last minute v Palace desperately trying to win the game and lunging in. 3 in 150 PL games isn't a terrible record, particularly as he's had 26 yellows so has been at risk many times.

How many PL players picked up: i, the same number; and ii, more red cards than Dunk last season?
The Palace one was an appalling challenge. The Wolves one revealed two things in the split second decision making process. First, he (correctly) didn't trust his (lack of) pace. Second, he (incorrectly) didn't trust his keeper in a one-on-one.
I appreciate that you and others will tell me that I'm being harsh on Dunk, but pace and split-second decision-making are arguably the two most prized assets of CBs, and that might be a significant explanation as to why Southgate doesn't pick him.
He has numerous other qualities, and it's been delightful watching him over the past decade though.

 

[Dave the hatosaurus]

Don't be that Grumpy Old Man! Embrace change!

(The main thing is the main thing, though, so enjoy that, as we all hope to do. Barber IN!)

Thanks HWT you have made me smile !
Brilliant insight on your part , it will come as no surprise to you that mrs DTH is always on at me to be less grumpy . Just need to put that wise advice into practice now !