[Albion] #TeamsLikeBrighton...

[Bodian]

The problem I have with "we should be beating teams like Brighton" is that it arrogantly makes no reference to how well "teams like Brighton" actually played in order to get that result.

Several times we've played well enough at fortress Amex to say we deserved some sort of result, regardless of the opposition. Man Utd were dire but we absolutely thrashed them 3-2. I reckon we'd have beaten anyone outside the top 4 on that day. Same goes for last season's Arsenal home win.

So when someone says "we should be beating teams like Brighton", they actually mean "we should be above teams like Brighton in the table". And actually, they usually are, so it doesn't need saying. But don't think you should be able to turn up at the Amex and just win, because on our day this team can actually play some very good stuff. In fact, our day is quite often which is why we're nowhere near the bottom of the league.

The problem with the "teams like Brighton" comment is that there is usually an adjective ahead of it:

Can’t believe we drew with a shocking team like Brighton

Yes you're right but we also need to be more clinical and create more chances Vs weak teams like Brighton.

Absolutely DISGUSTING performance. We should be beating pub teams like Brighton easily.

Pushed for Emery out the moment he started playing 3DMs to pub teams like Brighton, Huddersfield, Burnley

cant believe we couldn't beat an absolutely useless team like Brighton there ****ing deplorable long ball merchants pure hoof the ball. disappointing performance after taking the lead

Couldn't agree more. It's the patronising, denigrating arrogance that annoys me.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Its the same as MOTD treatment of football where they assume all views are only interested in top 6 with a a little bit of time spend on the wonder team of the season. Maybe MOTD viewers are only interested in top 6 as that is their only view of their beloved club who they can't (won't, can't be arsed to) watch in the flesh.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Its the same as MOTD treatment of football where they assume all views are only interested in top 6 with a a little bit of time spend on the wonder team of the season. Maybe MOTD viewers are only interested in top 6 as that is their only view of their beloved club who they can't (won't, can't be arsed to) watch in the flesh.

Yes, I wonder when they'll do one of their analysis pieces on something the Albion do. The only time I recall anything like this was when we beat Man Utd this season, and they analysed our high press and how risky / effective it was.

However, in some ways it's good that certain players aren't getting TOO much focus. #UnderTheRadar

 

[father_and_son]

Its the same as MOTD treatment of football where they assume all views are only interested in top 6 with a a little bit of time spend on the wonder team of the season. Maybe MOTD viewers are only interested in top 6 as that is their only view of their beloved club who they can't (won't, can't be arsed to) watch in the flesh.

Not just MOTD... all the mainstream media (esp. Newspapers) is exceptionally biased in their coverage of football. Compare the column inches of the top6 to the other clubs/leagues and you'd wonder if any other club actually existed.

It's like, say, the weather being very London-focused... yes, more people live in that city than any other... but more people don't live in London than do! Pretty sure more people support clubs away from the top6 than actually one of the top6.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I think a large part of the arrogance comes from them seeing us when we play away from home, where we've generally been atrocious for a season and a half, and they then assume we're that bad at the AMEX.

Personally I couldn't care less about the hash tag. It just means teams will continue to not talk about us or underestimate us. That can't be a bad thing. And it'll be a good motivator for our team surely.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

However, in some ways it's good that certain players aren't getting TOO much focus. #UnderTheRadar

This. The last thing I want right now is recognition of our existence. When the telly football or news programmes discuss the league table they talk about the race for the title 'Liverpool, Citeh, (mumble mumble) Spuds' and the relegaction battle 'Terriers, Bumley (mumble mumble) Carduff'. We are not even mentioned. We are hidden in plain sight, with no players of any note. Long may it stay that way.

 

[father_and_son]

This. The last thing I want right now is recognition of our existence. When the telly football or news programmes discuss the league table they talk about the race for the title 'Liverpool, Citeh, (mumble mumble) Spuds' and the relegaction battle 'Terriers, Bumley (mumble mumble) Carduff'. We are not even mentioned. We are hidden in plain sight, with no players of any note. Long may it stay that way.

Whilst I totally agree from a "keep our players hidden" perspective, the flip side is that incoming players know less about us, don't see us as raising their profile, etc.

At the moment I think it is working fine because of the type of players we go for. However, I think #UnderTheRadar would play against us a little if we were splashing the cash for a established, big name player. Price worth paying? yes, IMO.

 

[Mellotron]

I'm probably in the minority, but I don't get the fuss about the 'teams like Brighton' comment. On it's own it's clearly innocent, it's just a grouping of similar teams, in most instances of it's current use it means teams that have barely any premier league experience (comparatively speaking), have a small wage bill (comparatively speaking), will be looking over their shoulder with a main aim of surviving. An entirely reasonable categorising of us as a team.

When put in the context of established premier league teams, there is admittedly a degree of arrogance to it, but the 'should be beating...' aspect is still entirely reasonable. Take Everton as the recent example. When we played them at their place we were outplayed and well beaten. Most neutrals, and some of the more pragmatic members of our fanbase took the loss as expected. They are Everton, they are generally one of the better mid-table teams in the division, one of the few clubs to have broken into the top four that isn't one of the big six. Their tenure in the premier league has made sure they are a tough side and their wage bill is twice that of ours (or their average wage is). We can't expect to be beating Everton. Given that, shouldn't they be beating teams like us?

Taking it away from Everton... At the start of the season, we look at the fixtures and we identify the games we need to win to survive. A lot of the games that we will view as winnable will be the games against 'teams like Brighton' - namely Huddersfield, Wolves, Cardiff, Fulham etc. Teams expected to be in the bottom third. If we want to stay up this year, we're not going to get a lot of points v the big six, so we're realistically looking to get our points from the bottom eight. We need to be beating... teams like Brighton.

Agree and disagree.

At Goodison = Absolutely, the bigger, stronger team and any neutral would probably go with a 1-0 or 2-0 to Everton as standard against Brighton.
At Amex = Not as simple. Even a quick glance would show that we are one of the top 8 sides in the country at home. A draw would be a reasonable expectation for that game from a neutral who actually knew about both sides strengths and weaknesses, our main strength being we are excellent at home.

 

[Knocky's Nose]

Teams like Brighton doesn't bother me. At least we're getting a mention. Any publicity and all that...

What do you think when someone says Everton? You don't think Top 6.... you don't think Bottom 6..... you just think... well... Everton. Same with West Ham and Watford. I'd rather be pissing people off than have zero reaction.

I love the frustration on the opposing teams faces when they just can't get anything past us, or they're losing and certainly not expecting to. This actually affects their game, which is surely a good thing?

 

[El Presidente]

The Albion of course should be beating #TeamsLikeCardiff, which is why NSC went into meltdown when we lost there a few weeks ago.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Whilst I totally agree from a "keep our players hidden" perspective, the flip side is that incoming players know less about us, don't see us as raising their profile, etc.

At the moment I think it is working fine because of the type of players we go for. However, I think #UnderTheRadar would play against us a little if we were splashing the cash for a established, big name player. Price worth paying? yes, IMO.

Very good point.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

For me it shows an ignorance of how the football order is changing.

#TeamsLike are generally those who are not supposed to be in the Premier League based on perceived history and if they are a "big club" or not. Thus #TeamsLike Arsenal and Everton should always beat #TeamsLike Bournemouth, Fulham, Brighton, Burnley and Huddersfield, irrespective of the reality.

The reality is that well run, well coached teams who are prepared to spend a few quid can find themselves in the PL easier than some of the giants who now find themselves Championship regulars - see Derby, Forest, Massive, Leeds, Villa et al. Leeds will probably come up this season but there's no way that all in that list can. Many of the teams who I grew up as thinking of established / successful are now in the Championship. When I first went to football, though, Bournemouth were minnows who had a miraculous Cup win over Man U.

In short it shows an entitled ignorance of the changing face of football. Long may they continue to quote it. Not only great bantz on Twitter but it means we're getting results against established PL clubs.

This thread, and the discussion round it, is the reason big clubs like that are in the championship. They not only believe they should be beating teams like Brighton, but also teams like spurs and City. Trying so hard to compete at the top has led to so many crashing and burning - not only leeds, villa, Wednesday, but others like West ham and Newcastle who have been up and down, and then your Boltons, Stokes, West broms, Sunderland and saints of the world who thought they were established and wanted to push for the next level. Really the only way to stay up outside the top 6 is to know your level. It's what an Allardyce team always did, what Bournemouth are doing, what Palace fail to do every year until its almost too late, and what we are doing right now.

#teamslikebrighton are those which know their level, don't aim too high too soon, and are thus not considered as level playing field competitors to those striving for higher, even if those teams are currently below us. When Leeds come up next year we will absolutely be in their sights as 'teams we should be beating'

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

#Teams like Brighton irritates me too, but there is often a context (or implied context). Perhaps in our state of sensitivity, we sometimes fail to infer this?

"We should be beating teams like Brighton":

- if we have aspirations to be a top 6/10 side;
- if we want to justify all the money we spent of players and wages;
- if we then expect to compete with other more established sides;
- if we're going to avoid relegation. etc.

It's not always as simple as "They are sh1t, so we should be beating side like...".

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Every teams fans has an idea of where they are in the football ladder, and almost without fail every fan thinks their team is higher up the ladder than they really are. Inevitably this leads to arrogance in how results are perceived.

Everton probably see themselves as about 4th biggest club and us in the 40's. We see them as top 10 and us as top 20. They expect to thrash us and we think its much closer. Hence#teamslikebrighton

 

[BBassic]

Not just MOTD... all the mainstream media (esp. Newspapers) is exceptionally biased in their coverage of football. Compare the column inches of the top6 to the other clubs/leagues and you'd wonder if any other club actually existed.

It's like, say, the weather being very London-focused... yes, more people live in that city than any other... but more people don't live in London than do! Pretty sure more people support clubs away from the top6 than actually one of the top6.

I was curious about that so I did some digging. Found a list compiled by TalkSport for the 16/17 season which shows, roughly (and slightly out of date), number of season ticket sales per club:

25,000 Liverpool
28,000 Tottenham
40,000 Man City
25,000 Chelsea
45,000 Arsenal
55,000 Man Utd
23,000 Leicester
22,500 Wolves
14,000 Watford
32,000 Everton
52,000 West Ham
7,000 Bournemouth
23,000 Brighton
18,000 Crystal Palace
38,000 Newcastle United
26,000 Cardiff
20,000 Southampton
14,000 Burnley
20,000 Fulham
15,000 Huddersfield

Edited slightly to reflect the current Premier League clubs. Wolves kindly announced their actual number but I had to estimate Fulham and Cardiff based on a couple of news articles.

Long story short:

Traditional Top 6 clubs (City, Utd, Chelsea, Arse, Spurs, Liverpool) - 218k season ticket sales
Everyone else: 324k season ticket sales

Apparently some of the bigger clubs sell fewer season tickets to maximise on per match ticket sales but the numbers are interesting. With the size of the stadiums I'd have figured the Top 6 would have just shaded it. Colour me surprised.

 

[Triggaaar]

We can't expect to be beating Everton. Given that, shouldn't they be beating teams like us?

You know games can be drawn too?

Obviously the insult isn't just saying 'teams like Brighton', that could be a compliment, it's purely about whether they should realistically expect victory. The comment makes more sense coming from a title contender like City and Liverpool - if they're to win the title, they should generally be beating teams like us. Still it's a little disrespectful when they say it, but they do have a point. It's not so accurate for a team like Everton however, who might win half of their games against teams outside the top 6. It is arrogant and shows a lack of knowledge of other teams and the progress they've made. Therefore we enjoy it all the more when they fail.

Taking it away from Everton... At the start of the season, we look at the fixtures and we identify the games we need to win to survive. A lot of the games that we will view as winnable will be the games against 'teams like Brighton' - namely Huddersfield, Wolves, Cardiff, Fulham etc. Teams expected to be in the bottom third. If we want to stay up this year, we're not going to get a lot of points v the big six, so we're realistically looking to get our points from the bottom eight.

Sure, but we don't say 'we should be beating teams like', because we know that all victories are hard to come by.

 

[Triggaaar]

The Albion of course should be beating #TeamsLikeCardiff, which is why NSC went into meltdown when we lost there a few weeks ago.

Didn't we go into meltdown because we didn't play well and then it looked like their winner was offside? Not because we feel we have a god given right to win.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The Albion of course should be beating #TeamsLikeCardiff, which is why NSC went into meltdown when we lost there a few weeks ago.

You know games can be drawn too?

Obviously the insult isn't just saying 'teams like Brighton', that could be a compliment, it's purely about whether they should realistically expect victory. The comment makes more sense coming from a title contender like City and Liverpool - if they're to win the title, they should generally be beating teams like us. Still it's a little disrespectful when they say it, but they do have a point. It's not so accurate for a team like Everton however, who might win half of their games against teams outside the top 6. It is arrogant and shows a lack of knowledge of other teams and the progress they've made. Therefore we enjoy it all the more when they fail.

Sure, but we don't say 'we should be beating teams like', because we know that all victories are hard to come by.

Errr.

 

[father_and_son]

I was curious about that so I did some digging. Found a list compiled by TalkSport for the 16/17 season which shows, roughly (and slightly out of date), number of season ticket sales per club:

25,000 Liverpool
28,000 Tottenham
40,000 Man City
25,000 Chelsea
45,000 Arsenal
55,000 Man Utd
23,000 Leicester
22,500 Wolves
14,000 Watford
32,000 Everton
52,000 West Ham
7,000 Bournemouth
23,000 Brighton
18,000 Crystal Palace
38,000 Newcastle United
26,000 Cardiff
20,000 Southampton
14,000 Burnley
20,000 Fulham
15,000 Huddersfield

Edited slightly to reflect the current Premier League clubs. Wolves kindly announced their actual number but I had to estimate Fulham and Cardiff based on a couple of news articles.

Long story short:

Traditional Top 6 clubs (City, Utd, Chelsea, Arse, Spurs, Liverpool) - 218k season ticket sales
Everyone else: 324k season ticket sales

Apparently some of the bigger clubs sell fewer season tickets to maximise on per match ticket sales but the numbers are interesting. With the size of the stadiums I'd have figured the Top 6 would have just shaded it. Colour me surprised.

Very interesting... thanks for the insight!

I must admit, I was thinking more along the lines of the armchair fans.

In my area of the office [in London] there are 2 people who are regular STH.. me and one Saints. However, we are vastly out-numbered by the armchair fans who never go to a game, but all "support" a top6 team. If I count the number of armchair fans who actually care enough to follow the weekend results, read some analysis, etc it drops to a 50/50 split in my [very] small sample. But I imagine outside of London, local teams fair better, so still believe that there are more non-top6 fans (by which I include MOTD audience, newspaper readers, etc) than top6 ones... but I don't think there is much in it.

Your 60/40 feels about right to me.

 

[dwayne]

Agree and disagree.

At Goodison = Absolutely, the bigger, stronger team and any neutral would probably go with a 1-0 or 2-0 to Everton as standard against Brighton.
At Amex = Not as simple. Even a quick glance would show that we are one of the top 8 sides in the country at home. A draw would be a reasonable expectation for that game from a neutral who actually knew about both sides strengths and weaknesses, our main strength being we are excellent at home.

At amex we should have been clear favourites as Everton have taken about one more point than US(!) away from home this season. Their Burnley result masked a pitiful away record.

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