Team Wilshere vs Team Pietersen

[User removed 4]

that's entirely a different angle though bushy. I'll clarify that bit - I have no ISSUE with someone in Zaha's situation being eligible. In his individual case, I share some of your reservations, becuase a) as you say, he's hardly shown commitment to the flag, b) he's really not that good, and c) he's a cheat.

correct on all 3 points mr kraay, full marks !

 

[Tooting Gull]

Mildly interesting Tweet from Paul Hayward this morning...

'Born in England' stats for national teams
Cricket - 62.5%
Rugby Union - 76.1%
Rugby League - 94.1%
Football - 96.8%

When you think about it, it really is surprising that there hasn't been more of an issue over the cricket team and how many came from/were born in South Africa.

Most of the criticism has come from other countries (eg South Africa and Australia) and has been largely dismissed by the UK cricket media as sour grapes.

There just hasn't been the sort of frenzied spotlight on the phenomenon at all.

Why? Maybe it is because we have been (generally) winning in cricket. Maybe it is because some of the journalists/ex-players have similar links. Maybe it is more grown-up as a sport. Or it is a sport with few principles on this. Or we like taking players off real rival countries. Or something else.

 

[User removed 4]

He did decide....hence him making a decision.

Also his choice was between the Ivory coast where he was BORN or England where he moved to when he was about 4.

He's the prime example of someone who I would happily say can choose who he represents. Of course you hope he bases it on which country he most feels the affiliation to.

yes , he did decide, and i'll repeat my opinion, if england isnt an AUTOMATIC first choice , then f**k off and play for whoever has put you in the position of having to struggle with the decision.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Personally, think it should just the land of birth of your parents and, obvio usly, where you were born. Also, once you have represented one country in a competitive game then you can't switch. Residency rules should not apply.

We would have a very poor cricket team under these rules.

Would we? Who of any note would we lose then?

Pietersen (English mother), Prior (English father), Kieswetter (British mother), Trott (all 4 British grandparents, British passport) would be okay.

AND Jade Dernbach (South African father, Italian mother) would become INELIGIBLE, which would strengthen us further...

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

yes , he did decide, and i'll repeat my opinion, if england isnt an AUTOMATIC first choice , then f**k off and play for whoever has put you in the position of having to struggle with the decision.

If I was in his situation I think I would've had to have a real sit down and think about it. The purist in me would want to represnt the coutry I was born, the country my blood came from.

However If I'd been here since 4 I would want to represent the country which educated me and helped me grow and has treated me as one of it's own.

Does that mean I should also have "****ed off" as you so nicely put it?

 

[User removed 4]

If I was in his situation I think I would've had to have a real sit down and think about it. The purist in me would want to represnt the coutry I was born, the country my blood came from.

However If I'd been here since 4 I would want to represent the country which educated me and helped me grow and has treated me as one of it's own.

Does that mean I should also have "****ed off" as you so nicely put it?

In a word yes. It's insulting to be frank, people who turned up here as a refugee and owe everything to this country suddenly deciding they owe allegiance to whichever godforsaken sh1thole they escaped here from.

 

[gordonchas]

Well, it is (and Spain are not shy about using these rules either. They had Marcos Senna bossing their midfield for a while, and he never set foot in Spain until the age of 26! they are currently trying to woo Diego Costa, too), although that would require the lad to start the 5 year wait again, from scratch, meaning he'd be putting any International career on hold until he's at least 24.

Diego Costa is already eligible for Spain and if he keeps up his current form he will surely be in their World Cup squad.

In reality, these rules cannot be abused by the bigger football playing nations. Most foreign players who turn up in England, Italy, Spain or Germany are already internationals, or on the verge of being internationals. The only exceptions to this are kids who join academy systems. But if they show any decent promise they'll be called up by their "natural" nations before the 5-year residency rule kicks in.

 

[spring hall convert]

Would we? Who of any note would we lose then?

Pietersen (English mother), Prior (English father), Kieswetter (British mother), Trott (all 4 British grandparents, British passport) would be okay.

AND Jade Dernbach (South African father, Italian mother) would become INELIGIBLE, which would strengthen us further...

What about the Irish lads? Morgan & Rankin

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

In a word yes. It's insulting to be frank, people who turned up here as a refugee and owe everything to this country suddenly deciding they owe allegiance to whichever godforsaken sh1thole they escaped here from.

Like Canada? Owen Hargreaves
Like Jamaica? John Barnes
Like Australia? Tony Dorigo
Like Singapore? Terry Butcher

 

[Ernest]

I blame Zola Budd

 

[hans kraay fan club]

What about the Irish lads? Morgan & Rankin

Because Ireland is not (currently) a Test playing nation, in Test cricket terms, they don't exist. This makes things a different issue, to be honest, and quite difficult. I don't begrudge those players the opportunity to play Test cricket, although ideally they'd be playing it for Ireland.

It doesn't alter my argument though. Ruling Rankin and Morgan ineligible isn't going to make us 'a very poor team'.

 

[User removed 4]

Like Canada? Owen Hargreaves
Like Jamaica? John Barnes
Like Australia? Tony Dorigo
Like Singapore? Terry Butcher

Out of those 4 only terry butcher and owen hargreaves should ever have played for england as they were born abroad of english ex-pat parents ,in fact even hargreaves is debatable as i feel he should have played for canada,as his parents were immigrants rather tha ex-pats dorigo ive seen an interview in the chelsea magazine where he states "i'm an aussie during the ashes' and ive seen barnes interviewed where he's stated, ' i'm jamaican, my son is english', happy ?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

i think Wilshire gets this more than you give credit. Mo Farah came to England when he was 8, he's grown up here, he's English/British. KP has an English mother, so half English. what he's saying is that its not on to be chasing around for people who've no family ties, get them in the country for a few years to meet residency rule and call them english.

the comical thing to all this is Januzaj doesnt even qualify to play for England, he'd need to stay here another couple of years for residency to count. its quite wrong to even be talking about him in the England squad at this point.

I agree. The whole januzaj thing is ludicrous, and Wilshere just went a bit over the top in his reaction.

 

[spring hall convert]

In a word yes. It's insulting to be frank, people who turned up here as a refugee and owe everything to this country suddenly deciding they owe allegiance to whichever godforsaken sh1thole they escaped here from.

What a vile sentiment, you don't stop loving your country becasue circumstances dicate you move away from there. If anything it will make you love it more.

 

[User removed 4]

I agree. The whole januzaj thing is ludicrous, and Wilshere just went a bit over the top in his reaction.

What did he say that you consider 'over the top' ?

 

[spring hall convert]

Because Ireland is not (currently) a Test playing nation, in Test cricket terms, they don't exist. This makes things a different issue, to be honest, and quite difficult. I don't begrudge those players the opportunity to play Test cricket, although ideally they'd be playing it for Ireland.

It doesn't alter my argument though. Ruling Rankin and Morgan ineligible isn't going to make us 'a very poor team'.

Do the Irish guys qualify through resdiency do you know?

For instance could a South African of Irish parentage play cricket for England without having lived here?

 

[User removed 4]

What a vile sentiment, you don't stop loving your country becasue circumstances dicate you move away from there. If anything it will make you love it more.

I might see it differently if it was just a few people , but its not ,its significant numbers , it will affect social cohesion and a sense of national identity in the future, in fact i'd say it already is , what with wilfred zaha riven with internal conflict of whether to play for the country that he left at age four and probably doesnt have any memory of.

 

[public school boy]

In a ideal world I agree with Jack that English born players or those with direct English ancestry should only be allowed to represent England at international level. This I believe should be extended to all countries in any activity. I think this should be the case for managers/ head coaches. Those who have branded Jack as an idiot or prat are probably the idiots or prats themselves.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Do the Irish guys qualify through resdiency do you know?

For instance could a South African of Irish parentage play cricket for England without having lived here?

They still need to satisfy the residency criteria (most good ones will be with an English county from fairly young). Paul Stirling will be the next one, I'd imagine. He becomes eligible in about 2 years. The difference between them, and your example of a South African, is that they can continue to play International cricket for Ireland, whilst fulfilling the residency bit. You couldn't do that if you were from a Test playing nation.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Can we all just agree that Greg Rusedski is a complete tw@t?