Teacher Strike

[Nibble]

No i clearly know nothing about it. My cousin was a Deputy Head, one of my best mates wife is a teacher, as is my ex wife, we never speak about it. Your job has something to do with teaching does it.......

Nothing whatsoever, went out with a teacher for 9 years, my older Brother is a teacher, my twin is a teacher, 17 of my friends are teachers, my best mates parents are both teachers, my Sister in law is a teacher. You have a fair amount of contact with teachers which makes your ignorance rather startling. Well, not so much ignorance but you do have a tendency to make rather a lot of assumptions about people.

 

[El Presidente]

We work hard to gain the high level of qualifications that are necessary to be a teacher. We do this because we want to make a difference. We care about what we do, and most of us love working with children, and take enormous pleasure from helping them to progress and develop.

Many of us chose teaching when we could have gone into much better paid professions. My degree was in Civil Engineering, but I decided that I'd go into a profession that is substantially worse off, financially. I accepted that this was the case.

Since then, the government has targeted us again and again. You mentioned our pension scheme earlier - a scheme that has always been successful, and paid for itself. Yes, it is better than a lot of schemes, but its existance was one of the reasons that I, and many like me, decided that I could justify going into a profession that offered wages that were nowhere near those that I could have earned. And why should there be a race to the bottom? Other pension schemes need to be improved, if anything.

I love my job, and do it well. I don't want to do anything else. But I'd be lying if I told you that I hadn't seriously considered doing so.

I feel the same, I have a degree in economics, and am a chartered accountant, whose average salary for someone of my experience is £106k a year, but I work in education because I believe in what it can achieve, and know (from experience) that money does not make you happy anyway, so don't miss the fringe benefits that wealth brings (especially since discovering free porn on the internet).

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Aircraft engineers have a somewhat more responsible job for starters. If they f**k up, people, lots of them, die.

I appreciate where you're coming from but surely there must be plenty of regulations, processes and checks in place to prevent you unintentionally ****ing up? There must be. And as for responsibility; surely the education of the nation must rank very very highly?

 

[Soulman]

We work hard to gain the high level of qualifications that are necessary to be a teacher. We do this because we want to make a difference. We care about what we do, and most of us love working with children, and take enormous pleasure from helping them to progress and develop.

Many of us chose teaching when we could have gone into much better paid professions. My degree was in Civil Engineering, but I decided that I'd go into a profession that is substantially worse off, financially. I accepted that this was the case.

Since then, the government has targeted us again and again. You mentioned our pension scheme earlier - a scheme that has always been successful, and paid for itself. Yes, it is better than a lot of schemes, but its existance was one of the reasons that I, and many like me, decided that I could justify going into a profession that offered wages that were nowhere near those that I could have earned. And why should there be a race to the bottom? Other pension schemes need to be improved, if anything.

I love my job, and do it well. I don't want to do anything else. But I'd be lying if I told you that I hadn't seriously considered doing so.

A very good post. I think we have all been targeted over the years. There is not much left to target in my profession, which is why yours and other public sector jobs are getting the hit.
There was some numpty who came out with the good old standard "Tory right wing knuckle draggers" comment. I am working class, have never voted Tory, will never vote Labour again. As i tried to state, i am well aware what teachers go through, i realise that there are good and bad teachers, i just feel that some teachers seem to whinge on about how hard it is for them, when although it could be better, the benefits compared with some professions is quite good really.
I do feel that over the years the teachers are the first to complain, protest and threaten strike action and the sympathy from some is wearing thin.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I was in middle management when 7/11 happened and over night the airline, BA shrunk by a third, loads of empty aircraft and routes cancelled, this left many in my position with no jobs, I took a package as did many, and I decided to try something different. I bought in total four pubs over the next 10 years but at the same time bought a smallholding. My wife was struck down with a very nasty illness, Lymphangioleiomyomatosis, (look it up not good) so have now given up the pubs to care for her.

I'm sorry to hear about your wife.

As I said, no agenda for asking other than I'm just curious about how and why people make such different career changes.

 

[Soulman]

Aircraft engineers have a somewhat more responsible job for starters. If they f**k up, people, lots of them, die. That responsibility has traditionally been reflected in the pay. Also every licensed engineer within his job role is expected to be responsible for the unlicensed engineers (more unlicensed engineers than licensed) and sign for their work so yes licensed engineers are in management roles. Added to which I have compared the hours without overtime because the 28 days holiday entitlement include any days, weekends or otherwise. BA's favourite shift was 7on 7off rotating earlies, lates, nights. Teachers work 5 days a week 39 weeks of the year. From that I've worked it out I would work 210 days a year having used up my leave to teachers 195 days, so not much in it. Working the shift pattern I've used was an 8 hour shift assuming a teacher too would work an 8 hour day approx. 5 of which would be teaching the rest planning marking whether at home, weekends or whatever, there's not much difference and that's my point. I've witnessed time and time again teachers arriving when I drop my kids off (all schools having 5 kids I've plenty of experience over the years 4 are now adults, one training to be a teacher!!) and leaving when I pick them up which equates to 7 hours, thus leaving them 1 hour short per day at school. Working at home as I expect they do make this up. Furthermore I know a few secondary school teachers and they have "free" periods during the day which allows them to get on with planning/marking.

So all in all the two examples are not that far apart and that is my point teachers are not a special case.

I am working at Air Traffic control at the moment. There training is very intense, they get well paid but they have to work all different shifts, mornings, afternoons, evenings and nights. No choice and they have to do all these different shifts. They have a 20minute break every 40minutes.........one that is training now is an ex teacher.

 

[Nibble]

I'm not the one that keeps threatening to go out on strike, if i kept feeling so hard done by that i needed to keep threatening striking then i would get another job.
As i said, i have not been happy on certain jobs, iv'e looked around and got myself another job, and jacked the one i'm not happy in.

Quite right. However, electricians are ten a penny and as long as you can do the job the rest is arbitory. It takes a little extra for a teacher and school to find the right match. Plus if you are a teacher with experience you are further up the pay spine and schools like to hire newly qualified teachers as they are a lot cheaper and likely to stay longer.

 

[Soulman]

I was in middle management when 7/11 happened and over night the airline, BA shrunk by a third, loads of empty aircraft and routes cancelled, this left many in my position with no jobs, I took a package as did many, and I decided to try something different. I bought in total four pubs over the next 10 years but at the same time bought a smallholding. My wife was struck down with a very nasty illness, Lymphangioleiomyomatosis, (look it up not good) so have now given up the pubs to care for her.

Puts it all into perspective really.
Good luck to you.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I am working at Air Traffic control at the moment. There training is very intense, they get well paid but they have to work all different shifts, mornings, afternoons, evenings and nights. No choice and they have to do all these different shifts. They have a 20minute break every 40minutes.........one that is training now is an ex teacher.

Where abouts do you work? When I graduated I worked on computer models for air space configuration for the NERC down in Swanage ( I think), the one which replaced West Drayton. Interesting job and I got to meet, interview and observe ATCOs both at West Drayton and in the control tower at Heathrow.

 

[Soulman]

Quite right. However, electricians are ten a penny and as long as you can do the job the rest is arbitory. It takes a little extra for a teacher and school to find the right match. Plus if you are a teacher with experience you are further up the pay spine and schools like to hire newly qualified teachers as they are a lot cheaper and likely to stay longer.

Electricians are not "ten a penny" which is why they are training and bringing them over from the Eastern European countries. As for your quote on "a lot cheaper" the same applies to the ones coming over, which is why OUR money is being used to train them.

 

[Nibble]

I am working at Air Traffic control at the moment. There training is very intense, they get well paid but they have to work all different shifts, mornings, afternoons, evenings and nights. No choice and they have to do all these different shifts. They have a 20minute break every 40minutes.........one that is training now is an ex teacher.

Now, there is a job I wouldn't want to have to do!

 

[Soulman]

Where abouts do you work? When I graduated I worked on computer models for air space configuration for the NERC down in Swanage ( I think), the one which replaced West Drayton. Interesting job and I got to meet, interview and observe ATCOs both at West Drayton and in the control tower at Heathrow.

I am at the Swanage building NATS. The one that as you say replaced West Drayton.

 

[Nibble]

Electricians are not "ten a penny" which is why they are training and bringing them over from the Eastern European countries. As for your quote on "a lot cheaper" the same applies to the ones coming over, which is why OUR money is being used to train them.

There's plenty in the Yellow Pages! Anyway, why are we short on electricians, would have thought unemployed would be champing at the bit to get trained up? Good money as well.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I am at the Swanage building NATS. The one that as you say replaced West Drayton.

That's the one. I used to work for NATS at Aviation House in London but I used to go to Swanage from time to time when it was being built and kitted out. I used to work for the R&D side which was called Chief Scientist. Do this department still exist?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I appreciate where you're coming from but surely there must be plenty of regulations, processes and checks in place to prevent you unintentionally ****ing up? There must be. And as for responsibility; surely the education of the nation must rank very very highly?

Not saying the responsibility of teachers doesn't rank high. In regard to regulations processes etc yes there are, that's the training undertaken that gets to the position. If a licensed engineer signs an aircraft fit for service he is the one responsible no one else. I would supervise work, I would inspect it however if I did the work no one else inspected my work so it had to be right. When an aircraft lands the captain signs over the Technical Log (a large folder containing all relevant data and any defects) the whole aircraft becomes the responsibility of the engineer, not those red caps you see on the TV, they are just time keepers making sure the aircraft gets cleaned, passengers loaded etc but they have no technical responsibility whatsoever. The engineer decides when the aircraft is fit for the next flight. When the flight crew turn up they are supposed to ask the engineer if they can get on his aircraft and is it ok for them to carry out their pre-flight checks. Once the engineer is happy he signs off the tech log and hands it to the captain who will inspect the log and if happy with the work carried out (though he will not physically inspect he has no jurisdiction) will sign to accept the aircraft, only then does it become his aircraft.

Human factors, as the airline industry calls them are the likely cause of most accidents. Some of the aircraft I worked on back in the early 80's are still flying in Africa if one of them crashed and from the records I happen to be the last person to touch that component (unlikely but not impossible) I could still be imprisoned for malpractice.

 

[Soulman]

There's plenty in the Yellow Pages! Anyway, why are we short on electricians, would have thought unemployed would be champing at the bit to get trained up? Good money as well.

A lot of the youngsters do not want to work on construction sites especially in the winter. I know you think that it only takes "a month or two" and you only need "half a brain" to become an Electrician, but you would be surprised how many youngsters fail the exams, or get through the first year and then fail the next.
Firms used to take on Sparks on the cards, but with the cost of NI, holiday pay and sickness, jobs on the cards are as rare as chickens teeth.
So self employed, but as i stated the rate has not gone up since 2004. The JIB rate on the cards is not paid now to self employed, in fact the rate is mainly lower (it used to be a lot higher) than the national JIB rate because we have no say.
The money for apprentice sparks, if you can get on a firm is well below the minimum wage, because it is an apprenticeship, not very attractive for youngsters eh.
Yes, i could probably teach you to rewire a house in two months, providing you have "half a brain" but that is just house bashing and just a small but easy part of the electrical trade. To do hv, SWA cable, MICC, Tray, trunking, pipework, data, power stations, hospitals, floodlighting, airports, schools etc.....may take a little longer than "one or two months" and maybe two thirds of a brain, alongside the 3 years theory at college.
I am not complaining about my wage, my basic wage for 40 hours is terrible, but the fact that i do about 60 hours a week over 5 days bumps it up.
I must admit i would like to pull a sickie, or have an inset day, especially when it is cold and wet and i am working outside.....but then i would not get paid.
Swings and Roundabouts.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Going to have to leave this thread again (tongue in cheek) I've got to go and feed the animals 24/7 365 days a year my job.

 

[Soulman]

That's the one. I used to work for NATS at Aviation House in London but I used to go to Swanage from time to time when it was being built and kitted out. I used to work for the R&D side which was called Chief Scientist. Do this department still exist?

I'll find out.

 

[Soulman]

Where abouts do you work? When I graduated I worked on computer models for air space configuration for the NERC down in Swanage ( I think), the one which replaced West Drayton. Interesting job and I got to meet, interview and observe ATCOs both at West Drayton and in the control tower at Heathrow.

We are updating the whole of the FA system. That includes all the call points, smokes, heat. The whole of the controls that shut down the ventilation and fans etc, the Vesda system that is pipework and panels that are used in areas (such as where the air traffic control guys sit) the pipe sniffs the area and if fire is detected it arms the system. It will take about two years. Every night the whole system has to be back on, which can cause pressure.
A slip the other day caused the whole building (except the air traffic control guys who can stay in their area for up to 2 hours in the event of a fire) to end up in the car park.......600 people. The Op's guys have up to 1,000 planes in the air at any one time, but if need be can get the planes landed in all different worlwide airports with in half an hour.
By the way, i believe it was the Sparks with "half a brain" and only "one to two months" training that tipped the building out.
I must admit i must have had " half a brain" to work on Blackpool's floodlights 140 foot up on a freezing January day.......good job i'd done my "one to two month" training eh.

 

[fork me]

Aircraft engineers have a somewhat more responsible job for starters. If they f**k up, people, lots of them, die.

I'm a chemistry teacher. You think 30 council estate kids with bottles of acid is no responsibility?

We ALL have responsibilities on our job, I was also head of year, with responsibility for child protection within my year group.

Whatsmore, even in the classroom, if I **** up and the kids fail their exams it affects their whole lives.