Teacher Strike

[wellquickwoody]

Here we go again. I cannot be ****ing bothered to argue anymore. All I will say is I will support any teacher over that **** Gove any day of the week.

Poor lil underpaid, overworked teachers, I feel for them about as much as I do for GP's in the NHS, bless their little cotton socks.......

Oops, my mistake.......**** 'em!

 

[BigGully]

I think some are missing the OPs point here, he is saying that parents have just been notified that as of the new school term they will now be fined for taking their children out of school for unapproved absence, (£60 pounds per child I beleive but as usual with government comms its unclear), the justification for this was that children need to be taught everyday.

Now following this notification the teachers might strike which will be a contradiction of the reasons given to fine parents.

Is a very good point, but it isnt something teachers themselves have implemented or necessarily support.

The fining process is even more contentious, I am sure a couple will get fined twice as much as a single parent, or did I dream that ??

 

[jgmcdee]

I think some are missing the OPs point here, he is saying that parents have just been notified that as of the new school term they will now be fined for taking their children out of school for unapproved absence, (£60 pounds per child I beleive but as usual with government comms its unclear), the justification for this was that children need to be taught everyday.

Now following this notification the teachers might strike which will be a contradiction of the reasons given to fine parents.

You really need it explained to you? Okay, here goes. The two scenarios are:

1) There is a day, planned in advance, where the teachers know that the entire class will not be present. The teachers can plan around this to ensure that the the right work is carried out for the class to catch up.

2) Random children go missing from class, one or maybe two at a time, at arbitrary intervals throughout the year. The teachers have no notice of this, no control over when it happens, and no slack in their schedule to bring the absentee children back up to speed when they return without impacting the rest of the class who have obeyed the rules and attended school as per their legal obligation.

Which one do you think is going to be more detrimental to individual children's progress through the year?

 

[beorhthelm]

so... anyone know what the strike is over? says pay and conditions, is this just the usual union muscle flexing or a shit deal?

 

[jgmcdee]

Yet have better pass results and better educated kids etc. Guess they are simply better teachers working in a better system.......

Please please tell me you were being sarcastic.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Poor lil underpaid, overworked teachers, I feel for them about as much as I do for GP's in the NHS, bless their little cotton socks.......

With your attitude to teachers is no wonder things are a complete mess at present. But hey, let's give the MPs and extra 6k a year. And let's recruit a load of untrained soldiers; that will really work won't it.

PS did you not get the qualifications you wanted?

 

[gazingdown]

Please please tell me you were being sarcastic.

Which part of my statement do you think was sarcastic? pass results? better educated? better teachers? better system?

 

[fork me]

Hypocities the lot of them, I will only change my mind if somebody can justify why it is better to have a teachers training day the first school day after a holiday rather than the last day of that holiday

Because it's a holiday. Teachers get paid for a set amount of hours/days a year, they don't actually get paid for their holidays (they get money DURING the holiday because their annual salary is divided by 12 and paid in equal installments). Would YOU take unpaid leave during your holidays for compulsory training?

You really need it explained to you? Okay, here goes. The two scenarios are:

1) There is a day, planned in advance, where the teachers know that the entire class will not be present. The teachers can plan around this to ensure that the the right work is carried out for the class to catch up.

2) Random children go missing from class, one or maybe two at a time, at arbitrary intervals throughout the year. The teachers have no notice of this, no control over when it happens, and no slack in their schedule to bring the absentee children back up to speed when they return without impacting the rest of the class who have obeyed the rules and attended school as per their legal obligation.

Which one do you think is going to be more detrimental to individual children's progress through the year?

Saved me the bother. When teaching in the UK, I had parents expect me to stay after school to catch their kids up on coursework they missed whole they were on holiday. Parents asking why I couldn;t just reschedule the coursework around their holiday (a class of 32 kids, what would happen if they all had random holidays?)

The point is that, as you say, kids going on holiday when the rest are in school miss work the others have done and are disadvantaged as a result.

I'll happily stay after school and help kids catch up who were genuinely off sick, but I'll be damned if I'll do extra work for free becauser you choose to take your kid on holiday when they're supposed to be in school.

 

[upthealbion1970]

Not one week after we get this regarding parents taking their kids out of school in term time from a head teacher:-

“We have systematic teaching that needs to be taught every single day. We have 13 weeks of holiday during which we don’t do it and if they miss a week the learning has moved on, meaning gaps in children’s learning.”

We get notice that teachers are to go on strike.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-23285445

To be fair the head teacher you have quoted is a **** and suffers with massive doses of double standards almost on a daily basis. I know this as my son is at her school unfortunately

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Cannot be bothered to argue this one but just a couple of points:

Edit - accidentally pushed post, will add my points now!

 

[jgmcdee]

Which part of my statement do you think was sarcastic? pass results? better educated? better teachers? better system?

I still can't tell if you're being sarcastic, I truly can't. I'm just going to assume that you are, because it's better for the entire planet that way.

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

Yet have better pass results and better educated kids etc. Guess they are simply better teachers working in a better system.......

Anyway, hospitals don't close for doctors to do training days, they arrange cover for those doing the training. Can't something similar be done?

If my suggesting of working the week before doesn't "work" then why not start the term a week LATER and use the 1st week for training days?

Or perhaps they generally teach brighter kids? Most private schools still have entrance exams therefore the teachers job is to realise the full potential of the kids. In state schools, you have a mixed level of ability, behavioural issues and a whole host of other problems that make it more difficult for the teacher to teach, and the kids that wish to learn, learn.

Similarly, Oxford and Cambridge University have the shortest term times of the Universities in the UK. They can achieve this because the calibre of student is higher and the level of study expected to be completed out of lectures is higher.

 

[Gazwag]

Because it's a holiday. Teachers get paid for a set amount of hours/days a year, they don't actually get paid for their holidays (they get money DURING the holiday because their annual salary is divided by 12 and paid in equal installments). Would YOU take unpaid leave during your holidays for compulsory training?

Of course they get paid for their holidays just like everybody else is legally entitled to paid holidays of 5.6 weeks a year. Its all part of their salary package. Again as I said is it fair that a low paid family may lose a days work because their child(ren) cannot attend school or alternatively have to spend a days wages on a child minder.

There were never treacher training days in the 80's and I believe children were educated better then.

 

[nwgull]

For those saying that teachers have such an easy life: why don't you just become teachers yourself if it appears so easy to you? There's nothing stopping anyone with a degree from doing a 1 year PCGE course.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

There were never treacher training days in the 80's and I believe children were educated better then.

Ever heard of something called a Baker day, I'm sure there was something else before that as well. I was at school in the 70's and 80's

 

[Murray 17]

I'd be more than happy to do this if I got 13 weeks holiday!!

Maybe that's what should happen, reduce their package to 12 weeks holiday. Use that extra 5 days for any training days necessary so it doesn't disrupt teaching the kids.

Please do your research before you start slagging off teachers.

This is exactly what happened in the late 1980s when 'Baker Days' were introduced. Then teachers and children went to school for 190 days. Baker then made teachers' contracts 195 days, keeping children's schooling the same. I know you will probably find this difficult to understand, and if you do understand it - WELL DONE!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

To be fair, I was you once.

Then my wife, went back to university earned her degree and now is a senior teacher has been for years.

Unless you know or are close to someone within the profession you will never really understand the workload, especially with the backdrop of seemingly generous annual holidays, its a pointless task trying to explain.

However there can be those within the profession that left school went to college then to uni and then straight in to teaching.

There is some argument that perhaps as is so often said they havent really experienced the issues that those of us within the private sector do and the insecurities that can bring, so its an understandable ignorance

My ex-wife and my sister are both teachers and both are agreed that inset days should be during school holidays. Barring report time neither think they're overworked or under paid.

 

[Murray 17]

There were never treacher training days in the 80's and I believe children were educated better then.

Yes there were!!

 

[el punal]

Hypocities the lot of them, I will only change my mind if somebody can justify why it is better to have a teachers training day the first school day after a holiday rather than the last day of that holiday

Have you ever been on a training course? If you have, was it on a week-end, or during the working week or during your annual leave?

By the way, my wife is a primary school teacher. Would you explain how and why she's a hypocrite.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

1. Teachers are not paid competitively for the qualifications they have, or the expertise and professionalism expected of them. Sure, it's a decent living, but no more, and I'd advise anyone graduating from university who wants to make money on life to do anything BUT go into teaching. Someone above made a comparison to GP's which is laughable.

2. The holidays ain't bad, no doubt about it. But they equally aren't anywhere near 13 weeks either. Any teacher worth their salt works at LEAST a 6 day working week during term time, probably several extra hours each night and most of a whole day at weekends. So that's 39 days on top of the Mon-Fri 8-5 that you need to consider when you bleat on about 13 weeks holiday. Plus all but one bank holiday are in school holidays, whereas most people have them on top of annual leave. And yes, teachers do actually do a huge amount of work (planning,marking etc) during these holidays. Like I said, it certainly ain't bad but in reality you could argue it's not much more than a lot of jobs when you tot it all up.

3. Inset days are for the school staff to meet and to organise and prepare the service they provide, which wouldn't be possible if the kids were in. Personal training for teachers is mostly done in their own time.