Teacher Strike

[BadFish]

Words being used on the radio to have a pop at teachers today
"Welcome to the real world, I work 80 hours a week"

"It's a jungle out there!"

"Teachers need to get real"

"Teachers should raise their standards"

These people are absolute A holes.

The irony is that it is teachers who have failed to educate such ****wits.

 

[BadFish]

As another teacher who doesn't want to get involved in another thread where i am forced to defend my profession against thos who complain about the education system but clearly did not take advantage of it. I would like to thank the teachers out there for all their hard work.

The power of a good teacher has made the world of difference to my life and my oldest son has come on in leaps and bounds this year and his Aspergers is no longer defining his or our lives.

It strikes me as odd that no other worker has to come on here and defend themselves as often or vigourously as teachers do. Especially as most of us do it for the right reasons and to make a difference in children's lives.

Thanks once again to the teachers out there, you do a fantastic job and please note that you are arguing against a vocal minority with a highly limited grasp of what is involved in the job and that most people appreciate the work you do.

 

[BadFish]

I am paid for 38 hours a week, I rarely take a lunch break and on a lazy week I will work 50 hours and still not get all the things done that I would like to.

If you times a 50 hour work week by the 40 teaching weeks of a year (ignoring the work I do over the holidays) this makes 2000 hours a year. divide this by the 52 weeks of the year and you get 38.46 hours for every week of the year (still more than I get paid for.

Those famous fantastic holidays huh?

I can't imagine that this is much different for UK teachers.

 

[rosscrudos]

To be honest I've not read the whole thread, but I assume this argument has swung between 'teachers are shit/ get great holidays' and 'teachers are ace/ I am on or know one and they work really hard'

The truth is somewhere between these viewpoints. I'm a teacher, and while I can only talk about how things are in australia like Badfish, I can only assume things aren't all that different in the UK (and going from my own memories of being at school in England). There are some amazing teachers out there who deserve to be paid ten times more than they do, it is an unbelievably hard job to do well...I have many jobs in my time and teaching is by far the most challenging. However, I have also come across some awful teachers and you can get away with doing very little work. In fact, I would say, I have come across far more bad teachers than good, and if I had kids and couldn't live near the rare good schools in my area I would home school them.

The reason is a simple lack of intelligence, the enter score to get into uni here is very low, and the course was laughably easy to pass.

 

[BadFish]

To be honest I've not read the whole thread, but I assume this argument has swung between 'teachers are shit/ get great holidays' and 'teachers are ace/ I am on or know one and they work really hard'

The truth is somewhere between these viewpoints. I'm a teacher, and while I can only talk about how things are in australia like Badfish, I can only assume things aren't all that different in the UK (and going from my own memories of being at school in England). There are some amazing teachers out there who deserve to be paid ten times more than they do, it is an unbelievably hard job to do well...I have many jobs in my time and teaching is by far the most challenging. However, I have also come across some awful teachers and you can get away with doing very little work. In fact, I would say, I have come across far more bad teachers than good, and if I had kids and couldn't live near the rare good schools in my area I would home school them.

The reason is a simple lack of intelligence, the enter score to get into uni here is very low, and the course was laughably easy to pass.

My experience is different to yours, I would say I have come across more good teachers than bad. Of course I have encountered some truly awful teachers but most seem committed and in it for the right reasons. I guess this shows that it really depends where you are. The teaching market in Geelong is competitive to say the least which i suppose improves the standard, I think the new agreement will make things more competitive and begin to clear out some of the teachers that are treading water and collecting their salary.

 

[McSeagull]

...I think the new agreement will make things more competitive and begin to clear out some of the teachers that are treading water and collecting their salary.

Not sure if you're referring to the proposed performance related pay system but if you are I think you're mistaken.
There is no evidence at all that PRP improves educational standards. Even the chair of the STRB concedes this. She questioned the validity of the evidence against it.
Teaching is a collaborative effort not a competitive one. If the current proposals go ahead good teachers will be given a financial disincentive to share good practice with their colleagues as they will be competing for a limited pot of extra money. That may help the teacher concerned and the their pupils but not others.
The proposal is about de-regulating the labour market and ripping up teachers' terms and conditions. Clearly some people who think teachers are overpaid and underworked will think that this is a good thing but they will be in for a surprise if they think it will help raise educational standards.
FWIW, I'm leaving teaching after 23 years at the end of next week.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Thanks HT, this is boring, I'm sure if we all worked in industries that had some support from unions we'd probably stand up and be counted rather than be known as a country of fickin' pointless moaners that achieve little because we don't stand up with one voice. I bet all are moaning that the mp's are getting a massif pay rice but moan about it is all we will do. So if you post on this thread then at least think about the passion that does go into the teaching of and the childrens' futures because if more parents did then same, maybe, just maybe we can build a better future for all. Teachers alike do not generally agree with Gove, so let's stop pointing the finger cos I don't remember any parent contacting me, thanking me for getting their child there GCSE's! So pick the bones out of that!!

If this post is an example of teaching standards, then it is no wonder that some kids are poorly educated.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Somewhere in there I bet you got some qualifications as well. Thought so, its called the real world.

I am now really looking forward to the next thread on farming and have a few stock lazy generalisations ready to fire off. Should be fun

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If this post is an example of teaching standards, then it is no wonder that some kids are poorly educated.

Brilliant.

Clearly it isn't. But you and your ilk will always use dodgy and isolated examples to prove your spurious point.

It was Friday night and he was angry. I suspect he may have had a drink.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

I'll turn it on you what would you say it is including the extras tlr's etc

Why? You stated an average teacher's salary is 37k I want to know how you worked it out.

 

[CheeseRolls]

We can all change our careers if we are not happy. If i am not happy in my job i stick it out until i can find another. Working for the same rate as in 2004.
I love leaving the house at 6-30 am and getting in at 6-30 pm. I especially love being trussed up like a turkey in safety helmet, goggles, gloves, hi viz vest/jacket, safety boots etc, getting freezing cold and often wet in the winter and cooking in the summer.......i love it.
I'm really looking forward to my unpaid two week annual holiday and hope that by the time i retire they have put the retirement age up a couple of years as my private pension that i have paid into since 1987 is going to be worth £1900 a year in 2025......i shall be able to afford to do what i like then.
I shall miss walking up flights of stairs though, because the lifts have yet to be installed, miss climbing up scaffolding, miss the quiet early mornings when my house is the only one in the street with the lights on, and is the only one with the lights off when i arrive home.
If my trade went on strike there would be no heating or power in schools, offices, GP practices etc......but then why would i go on strike, i do it for the love of my job.

Don't get me started on construction. Why don't you go and work in Germany and find out how to do the job properly ? In this country we have barely progressed from throwing cow shit at the walls.

 

[Bakero]

No mate, it is one example. Education is not run for you as a teacher but should be run for the educational standards of the future workforce. China knows that very well. Things have to change and clinging on to a long summer holiday (initially in place because of harvest time when most of the country worked in the countryside) because it suits the workforce rather than the kids is one example of change that will happen despite a protectionist objection from the NUT. English kids speak one language (often badly), and are not as a rule numerate. Trust me international kids are. just think its time the teaching profession understood change is needed and so do many many people. You dont have our sympathy and you dont deserve it either.

If you want to imitate the Asian model, parents will have to pay for it. Many kids in Asia attend private English, Maths and Science lessons after their school day and at weekends. They often get equally long holidays to English kids but, again, the parents pay for them to attend summer school.

 

[BadFish]

Not sure if you're referring to the proposed performance related pay system but if you are I think you're mistaken.
There is no evidence at all that PRP improves educational standards. Even the chair of the STRB concedes this. She questioned the validity of the evidence against it.
Teaching is a collaborative effort not a competitive one. If the current proposals go ahead good teachers will be given a financial disincentive to share good practice with their colleagues as they will be competing for a limited pot of extra money. That may help the teacher concerned and the their pupils but not others.
The proposal is about de-regulating the labour market and ripping up teachers' terms and conditions. Clearly some people who think teachers are overpaid and underworked will think that this is a good thing but they will be in for a surprise if they think it will help raise educational standards.
FWIW, I'm leaving teaching after 23 years at the end of next week.

I was refering to the new agreement helping to clear out the dead wood. if they bring in performance related pay I will probably join you in leaving the profession.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

For those saying that teachers have such an easy life: why don't you just become teachers yourself if it appears so easy to you? There's nothing stopping anyone with a degree from doing a 1 year PCGE course.

Being ex-military will stop you doing the degree and PGCE; you can just breeze in with no qualifications at all. Raising standards!

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Just done a little research (I believe its called table top research these days) and it appears from various surveys that teachers "diary" hours have steadily been reducing over the last decade and now a secondary school teacher now works on average 50 hours per week including home working for their contracted weeks. The average secondary teacher's salary it appears is £35000 so 50hoursx39weeks/35000= £17.95/hours worked. That seems like a well paid job to me.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2302936/Now-teachers-demand-work-just-35-hours-week--want-allowed-home.html

If and I say if there's any truth in this report then it beggars belief.

Teachers generally are well qualified and one previous poster said to compare them with similar jobs necessitating such high qualifications perhaps they should, they'll find given the extra holidays etc teachers pay is very favourable.

Not an easy job, I know but there has to be a realisation that the average person out there is likely to be less well off, unlikely to have the job security, unlikely to have the (still) decent pension, and the holidays.

I'm interested in your point about it being very favourable compared to other jobs with similar qualifications. Could you provide some examples? Teachers have to spend a minimum 4 years at university followed by one probationary training year in a job, and then are assessed yearly to ensure they are continuing to update practice in line with new methods.

Could you please tell me a job requiring similar training to which teachers pay and conditions are favourable?

Don't get me wrong - I LOVE my job and am doing comfortably with money. But I have to challenge this suggestion that we are actually given quite a nice easy ride in terms of pay and conditions.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Corrected for you (with a dose of reality).

What is the agenda with you? An argument about teaching practices, standards and wanting what is best is one thing, but you barely, if ever, talk about this. Yours is pure spite and naked hatred of the teaching profession. You seem to have a very large axe to grind. So, why is this? What happened in your life to make you feel like this?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Why? You stated an average teacher's salary is 37k I want to know how you worked it out.

£35000 I said and that's quoted in many lists on the web government and alike. Not being a teacher I wouldn't know but having been a couple on the list and they appear accurate I would believe it is somewhere within that region.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I am now really looking forward to the next thread on farming and have a few stock lazy generalisations ready to fire off. Should be fun

I'm sure you could but I stand by my remark due to the very fact many well qualified people are not able to achieve anywhere near the levels of pay teachers achieve due to the current financial situation. That is what my remark relates to, believe I'm not knocking the profession of teaching.

Secondly whilst I am currently running a smallholding my qualifications relate to the aeronautical industry, to which I hold an ONC, HNC, degree in aeronautical studies, CAA/JAA licenses, FAA licenses, and used to have company approvals which have now lapsed due to me no longer working for BA. This necessitated an ongoing appraisal, an oral examination every three years, classroom based training of approx. 5 weeks every year all the basic salary of £28000, oh and working nights, weekends, bank holidays even Christmas Day!

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I'm interested in your point about it being very favourable compared to other jobs with similar qualifications. Could you provide some examples? Teachers have to spend a minimum 4 years at university followed by one probationary training year in a job, and then are assessed yearly to ensure they are continuing to update practice in line with new methods.

Could you please tell me a job requiring similar training to which teachers pay and conditions are favourable?

Don't get me wrong - I LOVE my job and am doing comfortably with money. But I have to challenge this suggestion that we are actually given quite a nice easy ride in terms of pay and conditions.

See my post above

 

[Vegas Seagull]

I am paid for 38 hours a week, I rarely take a lunch break and on a lazy week I will work 50 hours and still not get all the things done that I would like to.

If you times a 50 hour work week by the 40 teaching weeks of a year (ignoring the work I do over the holidays) this makes 2000 hours a year. divide this by the 52 weeks of the year and you get 38.46 hours for every week of the year (still more than I get paid for.

Those famous fantastic holidays huh?

I can't imagine that this is much different for UK teachers.

why are school car parks empty at 8am & again at 6pm, with all those 10 hour a day workers hard at it?