[Albion] Tariq Lamptey

[Icy Gull]

I would put James miles ahead of him based on what I've seen over the last two seasons. I'm not at all surprised he's choosing Ghana

The reason we got Lamptey, he had no chance of getting in the Chelsea team and knew it. Clever lad

 

[Icy Gull]

All games in the PL are at a high level/standard. I think Webster would have established himself in the England squad by now if he wasn't injured earlier this season - the idea that Southgate wasn't interested or keeping tabs on him because he played for Brighton - the 9th best team in the country - is a bit of NSC fun but not really true is it. (mind you i find the Dunk thing perplexing but then imo Southgate doesn't overlook him because of Brighton - but presumably because he's in/out form, his age, inexplicably prefers other Centre backs )

You are ignoring the fact that Southgate is a one trick numpty as a manager. We could have cups with a more clued up manager

Whether you admit it or not he has “favourites” who should not be the shoo ins they are

 

[chaileyjem]

You are ignoring the fact that Southgate is a one trick numpty as a manager.

Well he's the most successful England manager for, checks facts, 60 ! years.

 

[Icy Gull]

Well he's the most successful England manager for, checks facts, 60 ! years.

Who has had the easiest runs in 60 years, but failed badly against the first half decent team and manager we came up against in both the WC and Euros. He also has a multitude of what are arguably world class players.

Should and would have done better if he wasn’t a one trick numpty…just imo obviously

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Why do people persist with this myth? For a start Ben White was picked for the Euros by Southgate while a Brighton player, despite the fact that he was replacing a right back, and Lewis Dunk was given a cap but obviously didn't impress enough during the game and training camp to be considered again - probably not helped by his age. Apart from these 2, which other English player in our current squad is good enough to play for England?

It may not be so much that he doesn't pick brighton players but that he picks players from his old clubs at the drop of a hat and after barely a minute in the Premier league - Mings, Watkins, Guehi, Mitchell

Certainly fair to compare what Mings had done in four PL games prior to his call up and Dunks three seasons at the same point in time

 

[LamieRobertson]

I think it was possibly more to do with not impressing during the training sessions. I remember that video with Rashford consistently skinning him during a one v one session.

As for Harry McGuire, when has he ever played badly for England? He was voted into team of the tournament at the Euros, and he was also outstanding for England in the 2018 WC. I don't really care how badly he plays for Man Utd providing he keeps up that level in an England shirt.

Then I find it harsh that he can judge Dunk on that ..M might have been good then but I’m not sure he’s matched it since

 

[chaileyjem]

Who has had the easiest runs in 60 years, but failed badly against the first half decent team and manager we came up against in both the WC and Euros. He also has a multitude of what are arguably world class players.

England beat Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, and Ukraine and then lost on penalties to Italy. Not sure what cup run you expect to have. Its a cup , not a league after all.
A run beyond every single England manager ...ever. Come off it. We surely should be able to accept without equivocating that Southgate has the best finals record ever and credit him for that. - regardless of his treatment of Lewis Dunk.

 

[Icy Gull]

England beat Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, and Ukraine and then lost on penalties to Italy. Not sure what cup run you expect to have. Its a cup , not a league after all.
A run beyond every single England manager ...ever. Come off it. We surely should be able to accept without equivocating that Southgate has the best finals record ever and credit him for that. - regardless of his treatment of Lewis Dunk.

Italy who didn’t qualify for the World Cup, we had them on the ropes and fecked it up BECAUSE our manager is not very good imo. Pleased for you that you are a fan but you will not be convincing me. The list of impressive sounding teams you mention were all poor at the time.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Who has had the easiest runs in 60 years, but failed badly against the first half decent team and manager we came up against in both the WC and Euros. He also has a multitude of what are arguably world class players.

Should and would have done better if he wasn’t a one trick numpty…just imo obviously

Easiest run in 60 years? Really? You've forgotten us getting knocked out by Iceland? It was just two years before he took us to the world cup semi's with that world class midfield of Henderson, Alli and Lingard.

He then got us to our first final in 55 years, not losing a game the whole tournament, only missing out on the trophy on pks. He won three consecutive knockout games including beating Germany.

As for world class players? Who are they? He has a lot of good/very good attacking options. Not much in midfield and even less in defense. We don't have a balanced group of players.

Now, do I understand his squad selection policy? No.

Do I think he's a great tactician who can change a game once its started with tactical tweaks and/or his subs. No, not really.

What he can do however is create a really positive team atmosphere that gets players wanting to be part of the England team, that like playing with and for each other and for the country. And that has been enough to get to a world cup semi and a Euros final. He's given us two immensely enjoyable tournaments in a row which ultimately is all I, and I think most people, want. Before 2018 when was the last truly enjoyable tournament England had? 2004? 98? 96?

You don't need to think he's a great manager to respect his achievements.

 

[Badger Boy]

Italy who didn’t qualify for the World Cup, we had them on the ropes and fecked it up BECAUSE our manager is not very good imo. Pleased for you that you are a fan but you will not be convincing me. The list of impressive sounding teams you mention were all poor at the time.

I agree with your assessment. I think Southgate was found out in the World Cup Semi-Final against Croatia having taken the lead and then wasn't able to influence the game in order to beat Italy in normal time. My opinion is that Southgate is an excellent leader of the squad and has really built a team, but he is not a good tactician and is largely unable to positively influence how a match is going.

 

[Stato]

Well he's the most successful England manager for, checks facts, 60 ! years.

He's actually level with Revie, Greenwood, Robson, Taylor, Venables, Hoddle, Eriksson, McLaren, Capello, Hodgson & Allardyce, having won, checks facts, nothing.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

He's actually level with Revie, Greenwood, Robson, Taylor, Venables, Hoddle, Eriksson, McLaren, Capello, Hodgson & Allardyce, having won, checks facts, nothing.

So you agree he's the second most successful England manager then?

 

[Commander]

Easiest run in 60 years? Really? You've forgotten us getting knocked out by Iceland? It was just two years before he took us to the world cup semi's with that world class midfield of Henderson, Alli and Lingard.

He then got us to our first final in 55 years, not losing a game the whole tournament, only missing out on the trophy on pks. He won three consecutive knockout games including beating Germany.

As for world class players? Who are they? He has a lot of good/very good attacking options. Not much in midfield and even less in defense. We don't have a balanced group of players.

Now, do I understand his squad selection policy? No.

Do I think he's a great tactician who can change a game once its started with tactical tweaks and/or his subs. No, not really.

What he can do however is create a really positive team atmosphere that gets players wanting to be part of the England team, that like playing with and for each other and for the country. And that has been enough to get to a world cup semi and a Euros final. He's given us two immensely enjoyable tournaments in a row which ultimately is all I, and I think most people, want. Before 2018 when was the last truly enjoyable tournament England had? 2004? 98? 96?

You don't need to think he's a great manager to respect his achievements.

Spot on. We've had easy runs before in tournaments and completely messed it up.

Euro 96 we drew with Switzerland, scraped past Scotland and battered the below-par Dutch, then scraped through on penalties against a bang average Spain side who had two onside goals disallowed on penalties, before going out to Germany on pens. We won 2 games in normal time in that tournament.

Italia 90 we made our way through the group, drawing with Ireland, Holland and scraping a 1-0 win against the mighty Egypt, before sneaking a 1-0 win against a crap Belgian side in the last minute of extra time, then just about got past Cameroon after being awarded 2 penalties, before going out to the Germans on pens. 2 wins in normal time, against two African sides.

I really fail to see how our last two tournaments are any easier than either of those, and we got to the semis in 2018 and the final in 2021.

I understand the frustrations with Southgate, he's not a top level tactical master, but managers like Capello and Erikkson were, and they got nowhere near as far. Southgate has created an environment that English players seem to thrive in, something none of our tactician master coaches could do. Obviously the ideal is someone who can do both, but I'm yet to hear of any names that are realistic. Southgate is by far and away the best option at the moment, even if he doesn't rate Lewis Dunk.

 

[nwgull]

It may not be so much that he doesn't pick brighton players but that he picks players from his old clubs at the drop of a hat and after barely a minute in the Premier league - Mings, Watkins, Guehi, Mitchell

Certainly fair to compare what Mings had done in four PL games prior to his call up and Dunks three seasons at the same point in time

Hmm, Guehi and Mitchell are the first two Palace players he's picked in almost 6 years as manager, unless you count the 2 Chelsea loan players. Mings probably got in due to providing balance as a natural left footer. If he had such a favouritism for Villa players, then Jack Grealish could've played in every game for England after Villa got promoted in 2019 without too much criticism from the press or fans. As it is, he only started in one of England's 7 games at the Euros and was otherwise sparingly used as a sub.

For me, the suggestion that an England manager (who has a realistic chance of becoming a legend in the English game by actually winning something) would not pick the players he genuinely believed gave England the best chance is ridiculous.

 

[nwgull]

I agree with your assessment. I think Southgate was found out in the World Cup Semi-Final against Croatia having taken the lead and then wasn't able to influence the game in order to beat Italy in normal time. My opinion is that Southgate is an excellent leader of the squad and has really built a team, but he is not a good tactician and is largely unable to positively influence how a match is going.

I'd rather have an effective manager that can create a team spirit like Southgate can than a tactical genius like Fabio Capello.

 

[Icy Gull]

I agree with your assessment. I think Southgate was found out in the World Cup Semi-Final against Croatia having taken the lead and then wasn't able to influence the game in order to beat Italy in normal time. My opinion is that Southgate is an excellent leader of the squad and has really built a team, but he is not a good tactician and is largely unable to positively influence how a match is going.

You put that better than I have in arguing my point that he really isn't the Messiah who is the standout England manager in the last 60 years, that a few on here seem to be trying to suggest because he got us to a final and semi final.. There have been worse, much worse, in fairness to him

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Hmm, Guehi and Mitchell are the first two Palace players he's picked in almost 6 years as manager, unless you count the 2 Chelsea loan players. Mings probably got in due to providing balance as a natural left footer. If he had such a favouritism for Villa players, then Jack Grealish could've played in every game for England after Villa got promoted in 2019 without too much criticism from the press or fans. As it is, he only started in one of England's 7 games at the Euros and was otherwise sparingly used as a sub.

For me, the suggestion that an England manager (who has a realistic chance of becoming a legend in the English game by actually winning something) would not pick the players he genuinely believed gave England the best chance is ridiculous.

I don't doubt that either, but the players we are talking about aren't confirmed first picks, they are players he wants to take a closer look at.
He may have an unconscious bias against us. Possibly more due to our poaching of DA than any club loyalties.
Guehi and Mitchell have had decent seasons, fair enough taking a closer look.

Last season we had one of the stronger defences in the league.
At times we were playing an all English back 5 (Lamptey/White/Webster/Dunk/March) - For some reason they were all completely ignored.

 

[Stato]

So you agree he's the second most successful England manager then?

Yes, and also the joint least successful.

 

[nwgull]

I don't doubt that either, but the players we are talking about aren't confirmed first picks, they are players he wants to take a closer look at.
He may have an unconscious bias against us. Possibly more due to our poaching of DA than any club loyalties.
Guehi and Mitchell have had decent seasons, fair enough taking a closer look.

Last season we had one of the stronger defences in the league.
At times we were playing an all English back 5 (Lamptey/White/Webster/Dunk/March) - For some reason they were all completely ignored.

Lamptey only played about 10 games before he got injured; White wasn't ignored and made the Euro squad; Dunk had already been considered and he didn't seem to fancy him; March is a good squad player for a mid-table PL team but not England quality. The only player that could realistically had a call up was Webster, but even he had a couple of periods off with injury in 20/21 and hadn't quite reached the levels we saw from him during the season just gone (prior to injury).

 

[Mellotron]

Easiest run in 60 years? Really? You've forgotten us getting knocked out by Iceland? It was just two years before he took us to the world cup semi's with that world class midfield of Henderson, Alli and Lingard.

He then got us to our first final in 55 years, not losing a game the whole tournament, only missing out on the trophy on pks. He won three consecutive knockout games including beating Germany.

As for world class players? Who are they? He has a lot of good/very good attacking options. Not much in midfield and even less in defense. We don't have a balanced group of players.

Now, do I understand his squad selection policy? No.

Do I think he's a great tactician who can change a game once its started with tactical tweaks and/or his subs. No, not really.

What he can do however is create a really positive team atmosphere that gets players wanting to be part of the England team, that like playing with and for each other and for the country. And that has been enough to get to a world cup semi and a Euros final. He's given us two immensely enjoyable tournaments in a row which ultimately is all I, and I think most people, want. Before 2018 when was the last truly enjoyable tournament England had? 2004? 98? 96?

You don't need to think he's a great manager to respect his achievements.

This is so spot on.

People completely lose their minds over Southgate and do seem to have this really odd entitlement about England, like we have a divine right to win anything at all. We don't. We're a good side, not the best in the World. We might win a major trophy under GS, we might not.

But he's finally got us up to par for where we should be, something no other manager this MILLENIUM has achieved. Arguably he overachieved with the 2018 squad.

My main annoyance is he has a MASSIVE blind spot when it comes to Lewis Dunk/listens too much to the likes of Harry Kane, who is clearly not a fan.