Taliban showing how hard they are

[BigGully]

The Afghan Taliban have condemned a raid on a school in Peshawar that left 141 dead in the country's bloodiest ever terror attack, saying killing innocent children was against Islam. “The intentional killing of innocent people, women and children goes against the principles of Islam and every Islamic government and movement must adhere to this fundamental essence."

http://www.dawn.com/news/1151407/afghan-taliban-condemn-peshawar-school-attack

The hollowest of hollow words ........

 

[somerset]

The Afghan Taliban have condemned a raid on a school in Peshawar that left 141 dead in the country's bloodiest ever terror attack, saying killing innocent children was against Islam. “The intentional killing of innocent people, women and children goes against the principles of Islam and every Islamic government and movement must adhere to this fundamental essence."

http://www.dawn.com/news/1151407/afghan-taliban-condemn-peshawar-school-attack

Just exactly how does that get reconciled against the hundreds of random bombings and executions of men women and children, deliberately, over the last 15 - 20 years?

 

[Soulman]

The Afghan Taliban have condemned a raid on a school in Peshawar that left 141 dead in the country's bloodiest ever terror attack, saying killing innocent children was against Islam. “The intentional killing of innocent people, women and children goes against the principles of Islam and every Islamic government and movement must adhere to this fundamental essence."

http://www.dawn.com/news/1151407/afghan-taliban-condemn-peshawar-school-attack

Really, and you believe them....jeez.

 

[symyjym]

The hollowest of hollow words ........

Possibly, but it is interesting in so far that this is the first time I have heard a condemnation of any attack.

 

[The Fifth Column]

The Taliban were created by war and they are perpetuated by war. They are very much a product of violence in the region. They may fly the Jihadist flag and SAY they are fighting for Allah and Islam, but they're not - they are a geopolitical problem that has existed since the 90's and has been exacerbated by the conflicts of the last 13 years.

I suggest that you discuss your opinions about Islam with your Muslim friends, if you have any, you would soon realise that a vast majority of Muslims completely reject Jihadism and are as outraged by the actions of the Taliban as we are, if not more so. Or perhaps visit Turkey, a country of Muslims where they are passionate about secularism and equal rights. Islam is not the problem, it's an excuse for extremist groups - people and their politics are the problem.

However the Taliban were created is open for debate and in any case the fact remains that they are Muslims whether you like it or not. The same goes for Islamic State and all the other Islamic terrorist groups who are all claiming to be fighting in the name of Allah. The entire regions problems stretching from North Africa across the Middle East into Asia are religiously driven and specifically driven by different interpretations of Islam, they hate each other with a passion and are killing each other in their thousands so it comes as no surprise that they hate the west too for daring to interfere although the only reason the west really cares is to protect its oil supplies. Airbrushing your words claiming it is a 'geopolitical' problem all sounds rather less serious but the fact remains that the problem is an Islamic one, created by Islam and still driven and perpetuated by Islam in its variously b4stardised forms.

Your second paragraph perfectly illustrates the problem I previously highlighted. You claim the majority of Muslims reject Jihadism and are more outraged than the rest of us! Really!? The silence is deafening from what I see, a few select words of regret and shock from an Imam here and there but on the whole I see no evidence whatsoever that your claims are legitimate or genuine. Where are the millions of British Muslims marching in Bradford, Birmingham, Leicester or London denouncing the Taliban/IS and terrorism who are destroying the reputation of Islam?? Nowhere to be seen I'm afraid, if Muslims genuinely are passionate about their rejection of all the terrorism committed in the name if Islam then I'm afraid they need to take the lead and show it rather than leave it to non muslims who then get labelled as racists!

 

[symyjym]

Just exactly how does that get reconciled against the hundreds of random bombings and executions of men women and children, deliberately, over the last 15 - 20 years?

It doesn't reconcile anything, and neither can we reconcile any deaths that we have been party to, however the point is they have actually said it, and I thought I would add it to this thread.

There is a split between the Afghan and Pakistan Taliban so this could be a good thing in the long term?

 

[symyjym]

Really, and you believe them....jeez.

I didn't say that I believed them, I just found the story interesting because I have never heard of any condemnation of an attack before.

 

[The Fifth Column]

We really can't win in the West. The Taliban/IS and other similar terrorist organisations were created out of the mess that Islam has created for itself in the region, the governments in the region are too weak, unable or lack the will or resources to deal with the problem and as the problem grows we get 9/11, the London bombings and numerous other terrorist attacks in the west all supposedly carried out in the name of Islam. We can't let the problem continue getting worse and allow those attacks to go unpunished or ignored so we go in to try and solve the problem with the approval and support of the countries affected in many cases but somehow we are then the aggressors and the cause of the problem?! Someone please explain the logic of that to me because I really dont get how the West is to blame for problems caused by religious fanatics we have no control over? If we dont go in and intervene we are criticised for allowing thousands of Muslims to get killed but if we do go in we are similarly accused of being islamaphobic and killing innocent Muslims, WTF are we supposed to do?

 

[The Fifth Column]

You seem to be missing the point completely

I really dont think I am, I think you are. So this isnt an Islamic problem then its a geopolitical one? 9/11 was a geopolitical terrorist attack, as were the London bombings, the Madrid bombings, the Boston bombing, the US embassy in Nairobi bombing, The Killing of Lee Rigby, The Bali bombing, The Westgate Mall attack, the daily suicide bombings?? All of these are geopolitical are they! Nothing to do with all of the perpetrators being Muslim? Theres no connection there then?

Unfortunately Mustafa, serial apologists/deniers like you are very much an integral part of the wider problem. Until you get the point and make the painful decision that this is a problem created, caused and continued by Islam then there really is no hope for a solution.

 

[The Fifth Column]

The majority of those were in response to Western intervention in the Middle East. Even the Westgate Mall attack was motivated by a geopolitical problem, Kenya's military deployment in Somalia.

It's not only Muslims who commit terrorist attacks. However at this time, considering what is happening in Muslim countries right now, it is obviously more likely that rogue Muslim people will be the ones that do.

The problem would go away once peace is restored in the Middle East, because it's not Islam that is responsible for terrorism, it's almost exclusively war and politics.

Thanks, in that post alone you've proven my point better than anything else I could have posted.

 

[somerset]

Destabilising the Middle East with our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, our support of anti-Syrian groups, our involvement of the demise of Gaddafi and Mubarak, and so on, all heavily contributed to the extremism we are experiencing today. These are the reasons why, like you say, the governments in the region are weak. Additionally it's why people in the region are more likely to take an anti-Western stance.

The only solution is stop contributing to the violence there. Create solidarity with peaceful Muslim people all around the world and support all governments in the region who are fighting the violent monsters.

What this guy is saying is, he thinks a military dictatorship or a religious caliphate are his preferred style of government.......... not my idea of fun for the people who live there, but at least it would provide some stability to the oil markets.

 

[somerset]

The problem would go away once peace is restored in the Middle East, because it's not Islam that is responsible for terrorism, it's almost exclusively war and politics.

......meanwhile, in the real world......

 

[Soulman]

You seem to be missing the point completely.

The Taliban were created during the Soviet war in Afghanistan and their main aim is to rid foreign occupation of Afghanistan and northern Pakistan and for Pushtun nationalism. It's a geopolitical problem that 99.9% of Muslims do not support or relate to.

ISIS, again, is a geopolitical problem. Their fight is also a territorial one as they are reacting to the wars in Syria and Iraq and their goal is to form their own state. While these groups might say they are fighting for Islam or Allah, like most wars it is actually about territory and politics.

Yes, Muslims will strongly oppose Jihadism and particularly these terrorist organisations. You believe the "silence is deafening" because the mainstream media is mainly interested in negative portrayal of Islam, coupled with the fact that Muslims only make up 4% of the British population, so any protests or speaking up they do largely goes unnoticed.

So if 99.9% of Muslims do not support etc and the Taliban were a product of etc, then what about the trouble with Muslims in India, Thailand, Nigeria (Christians being slaughtered ) Yemen, Somalia, Libya, etc where no involvement. The religion of peace, until the population reaches over 20%, then the trouble starts.

 

[The Fifth Column]

......meanwhile, in the real world......

That'd be the 'geopolitical' world rather than the soft fluffy peace loving non terrorist Islamic world I presume?

 

[The Fifth Column]

Seriously Mustafa, you lost this debate several posts ago, give it up.

 

[somerset]

Egypt, Syria, Libya were all relatively peaceful, secular countries before Western intervention. Yes, they lacked democracy and governments were corrupt, just like most other countries, but their flawed political systems were far more preferable to what they have now. It would have been more sensible to leave them to solve their political problems themselves, even in Iraq where Saddam was violently oppressing certain factions of his population, their people would be considerably better off if he was still alive.

But I suppose Western intervention wasn't purely about liberating those people, if at all, I think you may have hit the nail on the head with your mentioning of "oil".

Well Syria, Afghanistan barely register on the oil producers graphs, Egypt us a net importer, so only Iraq and Lybia are important factors in that discussion. Don't forget the west went to war with Serbia to protect Bosnian Muslims, no oil involved there.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Well Syria, Afghanistan barely register on the oil producers graphs, Egypt us a net importer, so only Iraq and Lybia are important factors in that discussion. Don't forget the west went to war with Serbia to protect Bosnian Muslims, no oil involved there.

About the best thing that can said is that conflicts are getting relatively more localised. Doesn't make them any less horrible, but WWIII looks quite some way off. Though need to keep an eye firmly on Putin. Obviously.

 

[somerset]

About the best thing that can said is that conflicts are getting relatively more localised. Doesn't make them any less horrible, but WWIII looks quite some way off. Though need to keep an eye firmly on Putin. Obviously.

Putin indeed, although I suspect he may find his own Islamic provinces may start kicking off soon, that should get him bleating for western help, especially when he can't afford the proverbial pot to pisss in.

The Chinese are now finding they have to tackle the internal Islamic issues in the west of that country, this should stop them looking for a fight in the south China sea.......for the moment at least.

 

[Soulman]

Putin indeed, although I suspect he may find his own Islamic provinces may start kicking off soon, that should get him bleating for western help, especially when he can't afford the proverbial pot to pisss in.

The Chinese are now finding they have to tackle the internal Islamic issues in the west of that country, this should stop them looking for a fight in the south China sea.......for the moment at least.

They seem to be making a pigs ear of being a peaceful religion worldwide then.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The majority of those were in response to Western intervention in the Middle East. Even the Westgate Mall attack was motivated by a geopolitical problem, Kenya's military deployment in Somalia.

It's not only Muslims who commit terrorist attacks. However at this time, considering what is happening in Muslim countries right now, it is obviously more likely that rogue Muslim people will be the ones that do.

The problem would go away once peace is restored in the Middle East, because it's not Islam that is responsible for terrorism, it's almost exclusively war and politics.

The Middle East has been a powder keg since the Ottoman Empire broke up.