taking the knee - what are your thoughts

[Randy McNob]

 

[m@goo]

Oh ffs...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Whilst the things you suggest are potential policy options, none are being considered by government. The message taking the knee is supposed to give is that the problem is being ignored. It's tricky because the relevance has been lost in the adoption. It started with NFL players not wanting to stand for the national anthem all the time that they felt that their community was under attack from the police. The EPL players are obviously not doing this in response to the national anthem being played, but more to use the gesture to express solidarity with those who are trying to elicit change. In my view, it has continued and needs to continue because it highlights that the powers that be are not taking the problem seriously and are not considering the kind of policy options that you mention. The recent CRED report https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-concerns-about-uk-race-report-documents-show was strongly criticised by most experts on the subject as downplaying the issue and sweeping problems under the carpet.

The EPL knee taking has also got mixed up with the subject of online abuse, which, although a serious issue connected with racial prejudice, muddies the message further. I suspect that those who are complaining and saying that it has run its course are mostly not racists, but merely acting in the way that a lot of us do when being reminded about society's ills 'Yes, I know, why do you have to continue going on about it'. The problem with this attitude is that it ignores the fact that those at the pointy end live with the consequences for a far larger percentage of their day to day life than 30 seconds every Saturday. Them, hearing 'Okay, we know, but we're fed up with it now' must ring a bit hollow when they are probably far more fed up with living with the consequences.

Its always dangerous to talk about privilege because most of us don't perceive ourselves as benefiting from it. Telling white working class people that they enjoy some societal benefits that black people don't is likely to get the reaction about economic inequality that contributed to the last thread on this hitting the Bearpit. Fans who don't approve of the continued kneeling need to realise that it is not being done to preach at them, up until recently it has mostly been happening in empty stadia. It is being done because the league's clubs are in the spotlight as high profile employers of a multi racial workforce. For whatever reason, they want to be on the right side of the debate. You can be sceptical of their motives, but it seems more pragmatic to accept that they are a powerful voice being seen as wanting the right kind of changes and to support, rather than pick holes in the small gesture they are making.

Very well put.

However someone is bound to come up with a new reason why it must stop

 

[Munkfish]

Its my column topic this week.

TO BOO OR NOT TO BOO, THAT IS THE QUESTION?



England’s final EURO 2020 warm up game was shrouded in controversy even before a ball was kicked as a number of fans at the Riverside Stadium appeared to boo the England players as they took the knee before the kick off.

No amount of condemnation of the supporters chorus can hide the fact that this issue isn’t going to go away, and that maybe the FA need to have a complete rethink?

One huge aspect is George Floyd himself, as icons go he’s certainly no Rosa Parkes or Nelson Mandela.

Yes he was murdered, which was a human tragedy in itself, and his killer has been brought to justice, however Floyd’s back story does in many peoples eyes, right around the globe, present a huge question mark over his credibility to being a ‘beacon of hope’ or a catalyst for change.

Whilst its wrong to boo the knee, perhaps now is the time to stop it?

Instead does the UK need to almost forget Floyd and what’s going on in the US and effectively start our own changes in this country?

Would Ian Wright and Harry Kane fronting a nationwide knife amnesty be better than taking the knee?

Would changing the junior and senior school curriculum to cover all the highlighted issues and that of homophobia, hate crimes, social media abuse and all the historical aspects that accompany them be better than taking the knee?

Would rolling out a nationwide government funded programme where we invest in the nations youth, from the inner cities to the countryside communities, be better than taking the knee?

Would investing in the Police , and returning to a time where they were not only a force but had the respect of the overwhelming majority of the population be better than taking the knee?

The legendary P T Barnum famously said “You can’t fool all of the people all of the time” and a large part of this country either publicly, as with the booing, or privately are of the opinion that highly paid sporting figures going down on one knee won’t change anything in the long run.

Whilst I will always have the Albion/Palace rivalry at the back of my mind, I actually think the aforementioned Ian Wright would be the ideal frontman to bring about real change, not hollow gestures but real changes to our society, I believe he already has widespread respect the length and breadth of the nation.

Post pandemic, once normality returns this will be a huge challenge for Boris and co, perhaps one of the most significant government actions of the next 20 years?

I think you are way wide of the mark there and seem to have missed or at least not addressed why players are continuing to take the knee.

What has footballers and ex footballers being involved with Anti Knife crime got to do with racial inequality? The players continue to kneel as they want more to be done. Until more is done I understand why they wish to continue to kneel. All those who boo are just part of the problem.

 

[The Clamp]

I think you are way wide of the mark there and seem to have missed or at least not addressed why players are continuing to take the knee.

What has footballers and ex footballers being involved with Anti Knife crime got to do with racial inequality? The players continue to kneel as they want more to be done. Until more is done I understand why they wish to continue to kneel. All those who boo are just part of the problem.

Agree.

The use of language gives away the author's bias in that piece;

"Hollow gestures"

"You can't fool all of the people.."


All these bizarre funding and social options he puts forward as alternatives to taking the knee. Huh? As an alternative? Why? how about alongside?

And the line about needing to "forget George Floyd"

I've read it a few times now and each time it gets more irrelevant and bizarre

 

[The Clamp]

It's not a million miles away from Alan Partridge

"Listen, forget all this George Floyd nonsense, he was a criiiiminalll. He was suspected of passing counterfeit money, and while not proven, you just don't do that. It's just not on, Pal.
Brtain has it's own black criminals we can demoni..I mean focus on.
Why not get say...Ian Wright to do an anti knife campaign? Let's get Fashanu round the table? Two birds, one stone right there.
Look, Guys. What I'm saying is we don't need black American criminals, we have good old fashioned, British born, black troublemakers right here in London. Which is why I live in Norwich"

 

[CaergybiGull]

I'm greatly encouraged by those that have tried to explain what the problem is with Mr Rider's 'assessment'.

Honestly, can you seriously not see what is wrong with your language?

 

[Napper]

Its my column topic this week.

TO BOO OR NOT TO BOO, THAT IS THE QUESTION?



England’s final EURO 2020 warm up game was shrouded in controversy even before a ball was kicked as a number of fans at the Riverside Stadium appeared to boo the England players as they took the knee before the kick off.

No amount of condemnation of the supporters chorus can hide the fact that this issue isn’t going to go away, and that maybe the FA need to have a complete rethink?

One huge aspect is George Floyd himself, as icons go he’s certainly no Rosa Parkes or Nelson Mandela.

Yes he was murdered, which was a human tragedy in itself, and his killer has been brought to justice, however Floyd’s back story does in many peoples eyes, right around the globe, present a huge question mark over his credibility to being a ‘beacon of hope’ or a catalyst for change.

Whilst its wrong to boo the knee, perhaps now is the time to stop it?

Instead does the UK need to almost forget Floyd and what’s going on in the US and effectively start our own changes in this country?

Would Ian Wright and Harry Kane fronting a nationwide knife amnesty be better than taking the knee?

Would changing the junior and senior school curriculum to cover all the highlighted issues and that of homophobia, hate crimes, social media abuse and all the historical aspects that accompany them be better than taking the knee?

Would rolling out a nationwide government funded programme where we invest in the nations youth, from the inner cities to the countryside communities, be better than taking the knee?

Would investing in the Police , and returning to a time where they were not only a force but had the respect of the overwhelming majority of the population be better than taking the knee?

The legendary P T Barnum famously said “You can’t fool all of the people all of the time” and a large part of this country either publicly, as with the booing, or privately are of the opinion that highly paid sporting figures going down on one knee won’t change anything in the long run.

Whilst I will always have the Albion/Palace rivalry at the back of my mind, I actually think the aforementioned Ian Wright would be the ideal frontman to bring about real change, not hollow gestures but real changes to our society, I believe he already has widespread respect the length and breadth of the nation.

Post pandemic, once normality returns this will be a huge challenge for Boris and co, perhaps one of the most significant government actions of the next 20 years?

nicely put

 

[CaergybiGull]

It's not a million miles away from Alan Partridge

"Listen, forget all this George Floyd nonsense, he was a criiiiminalll. He was suspected of passing counterfeit money, and while not proven, you just don't do that. It's just not on, Pal.
Brtain has it's own black criminals we can demoni..I mean focus on.
Why not get say...Ian Wright to do an anti knife campaign? Let's get Fashanu round the table? Two birds, one stone right there.
Look, Guys. What I'm saying is we don't need black American criminals, we have good old fashioned, British born, black troublemakers right here in London. Which is why I live in Norwich"

At the risk of 'going there...' I liken it to the #yesallwomen thing too, "She was dressed how? Ohhhh, so... asking for it then?" "Why won't women obey the curfew caused by men raping them all the time? It isn't rocket science!"

Police Officer 1 "Can someone do a background check on this "person of colour" so I can assess just how violent I can be towards them?"

Despatch "I see a missed bus fare, smoking marijuana, littering and possession of curly hair*"

PO 1 "Oh a wrong 'un then? I'm on it!"

FFS

 

[pocketseagull]

Lenny Rider is quite clearly a daft old racist but gets a pass here. Unfortunately.

 

[father_and_son]

I think you are way wide of the mark there and seem to have missed or at least not addressed why players are continuing to take the knee.

What has footballers and ex footballers being involved with Anti Knife crime got to do with racial inequality? The players continue to kneel as they want more to be done. Until more is done I understand why they wish to continue to kneel. All those who boo are just part of the problem.

What the boo-ers have done though is get the issue a whole new set of media headlines and reignited conversation and debate on the subject and mostly on the lack of progress. So also they are, in the own tiny [minded] way... also part of the solution! Silver-lining located!

 

[TugWilson]

I have thought taking the knee has become less affective in it`s effect on the intended audience , ie: those that need telling in the first place . I believe that whilst TTK had an impact that the world saw every time a game was played showed a unity and a purpose , there are those that look at it as just an annoyance that happens before KO . These people imo will never change their tiny minds .

I would like to see both teams facing each other on the centre circle arm over shoulder as is done when an ex player is being Honoured , this is not an individual on the pitch in his playing position , but a joint stand together stood tall and proud not bowing to those that boo . We`ve done the respectful kneel , now is the time to show those that boo that we are level and above them , not below them .

 

[MattBackHome]

Reheated guff from that Latest TV thing. There's no point arguing with him, he doesn't listen to common sense.

 

[Mr Bridger]

 

[cunning fergus]

Seriously - what else is left to discuss? Southgate and the players have made it abundantly clear it is nothing to do with the BLM political movement. People still doing it are booing their own players for highlighting racial injustice - nothing else. They can scrabble around for pictures of Zaha and the like as if it that justifies it. You will not change their minds and the threads descend into the predictable.

You are correct about what Southgate has said, and I accept that may well be the collective view amongst the players. The trouble is, its equally true that “taking the knee” is synonymous with BLM, the movement which has amongst other things:

1) organised protests in the U.K. that have descended into violence against the police
2) wants to defund the police
3) has its radical roots in US race relations which are profoundly different to the U.K.
4) pulled down/denigrated statues and
5) is driving a U.K. wide iconoclasm and review of street names etc.

Southgate and the players are naïve at best if they think everyone that witnessed the above and/or understands the motives of the BLM movement will support “taking the knee”. They could in all likelihood have chosen any other pre match gesture to make their case and in my view they would NOT get booed. They have chosen to persist with a devisive gesture, that was their choice, they deserve a good booing.

They deserved a booing yesterday alone because for all the kneeling, I saw nothing that the players or FA did concerning a match taking place on 77th anniversary of D Day. Nothing. BOOOOOOOOOO.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

oh for a dislike button

 

[ConfusedGloryHunter]

Am I being whooshed here? This a joke account like the Pink Fairy one?

 

[Hugo Rune]

One huge aspect is George Floyd himself, as icons go he’s certainly no Rosa Parkes or Nelson Mandela........Floyd’s back story does in many peoples eyes, right around the globe, present a huge question mark over his credibility to being a ‘beacon of hope’ or a catalyst for change.

That’s up there with ‘Lewis Hamilton has had the most leg-ups in the history of F1’.

Deary me.

 

[Weststander]

That’s up there with ‘Lewis Hamilton has had the most leg-ups in the history of F1’.

Deary me.

To me, it’s far worse.

Silly wind ups about LH, contrast to the slow murder of a person by someone entrusted with his care .... and then concentrating in posts on the troubled past of the victim. Completely irrelevant, even the US legal system deemed it so.

 

[Guinness Boy]

And people wonder why these threads keep getting moved,,,,,,,,,,