taking the knee - what are your thoughts

[Dick Swiveller]

Seriously - what else is left to discuss? Southgate and the players have made it abundantly clear it is nothing to do with the BLM political movement. People still doing it are booing their own players for highlighting racial injustice - nothing else. They can scrabble around for pictures of Zaha and the like as if it that justifies it. You will not change their minds and the threads descend into the predictable.

 

[Bozza]

I've just checked the moderator logs and I can't see any thread on any subject has been deleted recently.

One on this topic was moved to the bear pit, which I'd forgotten was still closed. I'll open that up again now.

 

[Bozza]

Seriously - what else is left to discuss? Southgate and the players have made it abundantly clear it is nothing to do with the BLM political movement. People still doing it are booing their own players for highlighting racial injustice - nothing else. They can scrabble around for pictures of Zaha and the like as if it that justifies it. You will not change their minds and the threads descend into the predictable.

That'll be why it was moved, yes.

And that last sentence pretty much sums up any bear-pittable thread.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Its my column topic this week.

TO BOO OR NOT TO BOO, THAT IS THE QUESTION?



England’s final EURO 2020 warm up game was shrouded in controversy even before a ball was kicked as a number of fans at the Riverside Stadium appeared to boo the England players as they took the knee before the kick off.

No amount of condemnation of the supporters chorus can hide the fact that this issue isn’t going to go away, and that maybe the FA need to have a complete rethink?

One huge aspect is George Floyd himself, as icons go he’s certainly no Rosa Parkes or Nelson Mandela.

Yes he was murdered, which was a human tragedy in itself, and his killer has been brought to justice, however Floyd’s back story does in many peoples eyes, right around the globe, present a huge question mark over his credibility to being a ‘beacon of hope’ or a catalyst for change.

Whilst its wrong to boo the knee, perhaps now is the time to stop it?

Instead does the UK need to almost forget Floyd and what’s going on in the US and effectively start our own changes in this country?

Would Ian Wright and Harry Kane fronting a nationwide knife amnesty be better than taking the knee?

Would changing the junior and senior school curriculum to cover all the highlighted issues and that of homophobia, hate crimes, social media abuse and all the historical aspects that accompany them be better than taking the knee?

Would rolling out a nationwide government funded programme where we invest in the nations youth, from the inner cities to the countryside communities, be better than taking the knee?

Would investing in the Police , and returning to a time where they were not only a force but had the respect of the overwhelming majority of the population be better than taking the knee?

The legendary P T Barnum famously said “You can’t fool all of the people all of the time” and a large part of this country either publicly, as with the booing, or privately are of the opinion that highly paid sporting figures going down on one knee won’t change anything in the long run.

Whilst I will always have the Albion/Palace rivalry at the back of my mind, I actually think the aforementioned Ian Wright would be the ideal frontman to bring about real change, not hollow gestures but real changes to our society, I believe he already has widespread respect the length and breadth of the nation.

Post pandemic, once normality returns this will be a huge challenge for Boris and co, perhaps one of the most significant government actions of the next 20 years?

 

[lawros left foot]

Taking the knee, and indeed the booing is keeping the issue of racism in today’s society at the front of many people’s agenda, therefore it is still achieving what it set out to do.

The more the racist knuckle draggers boo, the more relevant taking the knee becomes, but, they’re too thick to realise this.

 

[Klaas]

Its my column topic this week.

TO BOO OR NOT TO BOO, THAT IS THE QUESTION?



England’s final EURO 2020 warm up game was shrouded in controversy even before a ball was kicked as a number of fans at the Riverside Stadium appeared to boo the England players as they took the knee before the kick off.

No amount of condemnation of the supporters chorus can hide the fact that this issue isn’t going to go away, and that maybe the FA need to have a complete rethink?

One huge aspect is George Floyd himself, as icons go he’s certainly no Rosa Parkes or Nelson Mandela.

Yes he was murdered, which was a human tragedy in itself, and his killer has been brought to justice, however Floyd’s back story does in many peoples eyes, right around the globe, present a huge question mark over his credibility to being a ‘beacon of hope’ or a catalyst for change.

Whilst its wrong to boo the knee, perhaps now is the time to stop it?

Instead does the UK need to almost forget Floyd and what’s going on in the US and effectively start our own changes in this country?

Would Ian Wright and Harry Kane fronting a nationwide knife amnesty be better than taking the knee?

Would changing the junior and senior school curriculum to cover all the highlighted issues and that of homophobia, hate crimes, social media abuse and all the historical aspects that accompany them be better than taking the knee?

Would rolling out a nationwide government funded programme where we invest in the nations youth, from the inner cities to the countryside communities, be better than taking the knee?

Would investing in the Police , and returning to a time where they were not only a force but had the respect of the overwhelming majority of the population be better than taking the knee?

The legendary P T Barnum famously said “You can’t fool all of the people all of the time” and a large part of this country either publicly, as with the booing, or privately are of the opinion that highly paid sporting figures going down on one knee won’t change anything in the long run.

Whilst I will always have the Albion/Palace rivalry at the back of my mind, I actually think the aforementioned Ian Wright would be the ideal frontman to bring about real change, not hollow gestures but real changes to our society, I believe he already has widespread respect the length and breadth of the nation.

Post pandemic, once normality returns this will be a huge challenge for Boris and co, perhaps one of the most significant government actions of the next 20 years?

George Floyd was no saint, what about knife crime? Surprised you didn't chuck in Marxist terrorists for good measure.

 

[GT49er]

Its my column topic this week.

TO BOO OR NOT TO BOO, THAT IS THE QUESTION?



England’s final EURO 2020 warm up game was shrouded in controversy even before a ball was kicked as a number of fans at the Riverside Stadium appeared to boo the England players as they took the knee before the kick off.

No amount of condemnation of the supporters chorus can hide the fact that this issue isn’t going to go away, and that maybe the FA need to have a complete rethink?

One huge aspect is George Floyd himself, as icons go he’s certainly no Rosa Parkes or Nelson Mandela.

Yes he was murdered, which was a human tragedy in itself, and his killer has been brought to justice, however Floyd’s back story does in many peoples eyes, right around the globe, present a huge question mark over his credibility to being a ‘beacon of hope’ or a catalyst for change.

Whilst its wrong to boo the knee, perhaps now is the time to stop it?

Instead does the UK need to almost forget Floyd and what’s going on in the US and effectively start our own changes in this country?

Would Ian Wright and Harry Kane fronting a nationwide knife amnesty be better than taking the knee?

Would changing the junior and senior school curriculum to cover all the highlighted issues and that of homophobia, hate crimes, social media abuse and all the historical aspects that accompany them be better than taking the knee?

Would rolling out a nationwide government funded programme where we invest in the nations youth, from the inner cities to the countryside communities, be better than taking the knee?

Would investing in the Police , and returning to a time where they were not only a force but had the respect of the overwhelming majority of the population be better than taking the knee?

The legendary P T Barnum famously said “You can’t fool all of the people all of the time” and a large part of this country either publicly, as with the booing, or privately are of the opinion that highly paid sporting figures going down on one knee won’t change anything in the long run.

Whilst I will always have the Albion/Palace rivalry at the back of my mind, I actually think the aforementioned Ian Wright would be the ideal frontman to bring about real change, not hollow gestures but real changes to our society, I believe he already has widespread respect the length and breadth of the nation.

Post pandemic, once normality returns this will be a huge challenge for Boris and co, perhaps one of the most significant government actions of the next 20 years?

The OP asks why threads about taking the knee disappear - or get bunged into the Bear Pit ............. and this is why. Someone posts questioning whether taking the knee is now just a hollow gesture; dissent from the accepted view that taking the knee is giving the racists a good bashing, and that anybody who suggests ending it is at least pandering to, if not supporting the racists generates some furious responses - and hey ho, off to the Bear Pit ye shall go!
That's exactly where the last thread went when someone questioned whether taking the knee, while a powerful signal at first, was now past its sell-by-date (not that it had cured racism, just that it wasn't doing any good any more).

 

[dejavuatbtn]

I noticed the latest thread is now in the bear pit section but the bear pit section is closed.

That would be a bare pit then.

 

[Robdinho]

Its my column topic this week.

TO BOO OR NOT TO BOO, THAT IS THE QUESTION?



England’s final EURO 2020 warm up game was shrouded in controversy even before a ball was kicked as a number of fans at the Riverside Stadium appeared to boo the England players as they took the knee before the kick off.

No amount of condemnation of the supporters chorus can hide the fact that this issue isn’t going to go away, and that maybe the FA need to have a complete rethink?

One huge aspect is George Floyd himself, as icons go he’s certainly no Rosa Parkes or Nelson Mandela.

Yes he was murdered, which was a human tragedy in itself, and his killer has been brought to justice, however Floyd’s back story does in many peoples eyes, right around the globe, present a huge question mark over his credibility to being a ‘beacon of hope’ or a catalyst for change.

Whilst its wrong to boo the knee, perhaps now is the time to stop it?

Instead does the UK need to almost forget Floyd and what’s going on in the US and effectively start our own changes in this country?

Would Ian Wright and Harry Kane fronting a nationwide knife amnesty be better than taking the knee?

Would changing the junior and senior school curriculum to cover all the highlighted issues and that of homophobia, hate crimes, social media abuse and all the historical aspects that accompany them be better than taking the knee?

Would rolling out a nationwide government funded programme where we invest in the nations youth, from the inner cities to the countryside communities, be better than taking the knee?

Would investing in the Police , and returning to a time where they were not only a force but had the respect of the overwhelming majority of the population be better than taking the knee?

The legendary P T Barnum famously said “You can’t fool all of the people all of the time” and a large part of this country either publicly, as with the booing, or privately are of the opinion that highly paid sporting figures going down on one knee won’t change anything in the long run.

Whilst I will always have the Albion/Palace rivalry at the back of my mind, I actually think the aforementioned Ian Wright would be the ideal frontman to bring about real change, not hollow gestures but real changes to our society, I believe he already has widespread respect the length and breadth of the nation.

Post pandemic, once normality returns this will be a huge challenge for Boris and co, perhaps one of the most significant government actions of the next 20 years?

Taking the knee started a long, long time before George Floyd.

Do you know what the best way to stop players taking the knee would be? How about actually taking some concrete steps towards equal treatment for ethnic minorities?

You almost seem to come to this conclusion yourself, but for some reason you think the players should stop taking the knee first?? Presumably this so you and your ilk can go back to your cosy existence pretending racism doesn't exist, or is someone else's problem, rather than being confronted with other peoples reality and being made to feel a little uncomfortable.

Honest question, if they just stop, do you really think anything will be done?

 

[FatSuperman]

Its my column topic this week.
TO BOO OR NOT TO BOO, THAT IS THE QUESTION?

Spoiler; the answer is 'not to boo'.


Your list of alternatives are great, we should do all of them. For me, the point about taking the knee is that until we are doing all of those things, we still need to use this gesture to show more action is needed. It's bloody obvious to me, but taking the knee isn't trying to fix the problems, it's simply trying to remind people about them.

Fats x

 

[Chicken Run]

how about a non bear pit section where others can carry on the debate?

I bet you’re missing the Brexit debate Randy [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Mellotron]

Seriously - what else is left to discuss? Southgate and the players have made it abundantly clear it is nothing to do with the BLM political movement. People still doing it are booing their own players for highlighting racial injustice - nothing else. They can scrabble around for pictures of Zaha and the like as if it that justifies it. You will not change their minds and the threads descend into the predictable.

This sums it all up.

 

[Lenny Rider]

George Floyd was no saint, what about knife crime? Surprised you didn't chuck in Marxist terrorists for good measure.

Hence my suggestion of Wright and Kane fronting a knife, even gun, amnesty right across the UK, Frankie Vaughan did in Glasgow in the 1960's after meeting with the leaders of the four big teenage gangs and the Police had in excess of 500 different weapons put in bins outside Police stations right across the city.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Its my column topic this week.

TO BOO OR NOT TO BOO, THAT IS THE QUESTION?



England’s final EURO 2020 warm up game was shrouded in controversy even before a ball was kicked as a number of fans at the Riverside Stadium appeared to boo the England players as they took the knee before the kick off.

No amount of condemnation of the supporters chorus can hide the fact that this issue isn’t going to go away, and that maybe the FA need to have a complete rethink?

One huge aspect is George Floyd himself, as icons go he’s certainly no Rosa Parkes or Nelson Mandela.

Yes he was murdered, which was a human tragedy in itself, and his killer has been brought to justice, however Floyd’s back story does in many peoples eyes, right around the globe, present a huge question mark over his credibility to being a ‘beacon of hope’ or a catalyst for change.

Whilst its wrong to boo the knee, perhaps now is the time to stop it?

Instead does the UK need to almost forget Floyd and what’s going on in the US and effectively start our own changes in this country?

Would Ian Wright and Harry Kane fronting a nationwide knife amnesty be better than taking the knee?

Would changing the junior and senior school curriculum to cover all the highlighted issues and that of homophobia, hate crimes, social media abuse and all the historical aspects that accompany them be better than taking the knee?

Would rolling out a nationwide government funded programme where we invest in the nations youth, from the inner cities to the countryside communities, be better than taking the knee?

Would investing in the Police , and returning to a time where they were not only a force but had the respect of the overwhelming majority of the population be better than taking the knee?

The legendary P T Barnum famously said “You can’t fool all of the people all of the time” and a large part of this country either publicly, as with the booing, or privately are of the opinion that highly paid sporting figures going down on one knee won’t change anything in the long run.

Whilst I will always have the Albion/Palace rivalry at the back of my mind, I actually think the aforementioned Ian Wright would be the ideal frontman to bring about real change, not hollow gestures but real changes to our society, I believe he already has widespread respect the length and breadth of the nation.

Post pandemic, once normality returns this will be a huge challenge for Boris and co, perhaps one of the most significant government actions of the next 20 years?

9 questions, massively skewed to one side of the debate. Journalism at it's finest.

 

[father_and_son]

I've just checked the moderator logs and I can't see any thread on any subject has been deleted recently.

One on this topic was moved to the bear pit, which I'd forgotten was still closed. I'll open that up again now.

I'm just surprised that there weren't dozens of Brexit threads appearing because the Pit was closed and some people seem to need a daily dose of screaming at screen to get them through the day!

 

[The Clamp]

All been done to death surely? Players aren't going to stop taking the knee because they are being booed. This was a thing long before George Floyd. Floyd happened to be the case that moved the movement into public consciousness. Unlike Rosa Parks or Mandela, It's not so much about the individual being a symbol for change but more an incidence of racist murder that tipped the balance.

George Floyd was murdered because a store clerk suspected he passed a false $20 note. For the suspicion of a store clerk he was murdered by a cop. Think about that.

It's pointlessly bizarre saying we should forget George Floyd and get Ian wright to do an anti knife crime campaign instead. It's a very strange suggestion indeed. What has one got to do with the other. The murder has happened. He can't be un-murdered. He is known. The incident is known.

By all means advocate an anti-knife campaign. All good. But to try and negate the impact of the murder of a black man by a white cop by switching focus to a campaign against a crime committed largely by poor, black youth is crass and inappropriate.

George Floyd was murdered in America. The impact was felt around the western world. That is why people take the knee.

 

[ConfusedGloryHunter]

I am genuinely curious about anyone's motivation for booing the knee, however I doubt NSC is the best place to find out as any discussion would be derailed by wokists seeking to cancel people they perceive as racists and anyone feeling under attack responds. All we can really do is theorise and here, because I'm sure you all care, are my thoughts:

- Some of the booers are probably classic, knuckle dragging, out and out racists. There is no thought to their actions any more than throwing bananas on the pitch, some of this group probably don't even know why they are booing beyond following what their pack leader does.

- However some of the booers may not consider themselves racists yet wish to protest the actions of BLM iconoclasts. In this theory they view an attack on a statue of Churchill as pretty much treasonous, want to retaliate and booing footballers is their first available opportunity. Basically in their eyes their booing comes from a deeply patriotic stand point. Please don't think I agree with them by the way, I'm just trying to understand the madness!

There are probably other justifications in booers heads and I would really like to know what they are but as I said, NSC isn't the best place to try to find out.

P.S. I'm definitely guilty of a bit of woke based shouting from time to time.

 

[Stato]

Would Ian Wright and Harry Kane fronting a nationwide knife amnesty be better than taking the knee?

Would changing the junior and senior school curriculum to cover all the highlighted issues and that of homophobia, hate crimes, social media abuse and all the historical aspects that accompany them be better than taking the knee?

Would rolling out a nationwide government funded programme where we invest in the nations youth, from the inner cities to the countryside communities, be better than taking the knee?

Would investing in the Police , and returning to a time where they were not only a force but had the respect of the overwhelming majority of the population be better than taking the knee?

Whilst the things you suggest are potential policy options, none are being considered by government. The message taking the knee is supposed to give is that the problem is being ignored. It's tricky because the relevance has been lost in the adoption. It started with NFL players not wanting to stand for the national anthem all the time that they felt that their community was under attack from the police. The EPL players are obviously not doing this in response to the national anthem being played, but more to use the gesture to express solidarity with those who are trying to elicit change. In my view, it has continued and needs to continue because it highlights that the powers that be are not taking the problem seriously and are not considering the kind of policy options that you mention. The recent CRED report https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-concerns-about-uk-race-report-documents-show was strongly criticised by most experts on the subject as downplaying the issue and sweeping problems under the carpet.

The EPL knee taking has also got mixed up with the subject of online abuse, which, although a serious issue connected with racial prejudice, muddies the message further. I suspect that those who are complaining and saying that it has run its course are mostly not racists, but merely acting in the way that a lot of us do when being reminded about society's ills 'Yes, I know, why do you have to continue going on about it'. The problem with this attitude is that it ignores the fact that those at the pointy end live with the consequences for a far larger percentage of their day to day life than 30 seconds every Saturday. Them, hearing 'Okay, we know, but we're fed up with it now' must ring a bit hollow when they are probably far more fed up with living with the consequences.

Its always dangerous to talk about privilege because most of us don't perceive ourselves as benefiting from it. Telling white working class people that they enjoy some societal benefits that black people don't is likely to get the reaction about economic inequality that contributed to the last thread on this hitting the Bearpit. Fans who don't approve of the continued kneeling need to realise that it is not being done to preach at them, up until recently it has mostly been happening in empty stadia. It is being done because the league's clubs are in the spotlight as high profile employers of a multi racial workforce. For whatever reason, they want to be on the right side of the debate. You can be sceptical of their motives, but it seems more pragmatic to accept that they are a powerful voice being seen as wanting the right kind of changes and to support, rather than pick holes in the small gesture they are making.

 

[The Clamp]

Its my column topic this week.

TO BOO OR NOT TO BOO, THAT IS THE QUESTION?



England’s final EURO 2020 warm up game was shrouded in controversy even before a ball was kicked as a number of fans at the Riverside Stadium appeared to boo the England players as they took the knee before the kick off.

No amount of condemnation of the supporters chorus can hide the fact that this issue isn’t going to go away, and that maybe the FA need to have a complete rethink?

One huge aspect is George Floyd himself, as icons go he’s certainly no Rosa Parkes or Nelson Mandela.

Yes he was murdered, which was a human tragedy in itself, and his killer has been brought to justice, however Floyd’s back story does in many peoples eyes, right around the globe, present a huge question mark over his credibility to being a ‘beacon of hope’ or a catalyst for change.

Whilst its wrong to boo the knee, perhaps now is the time to stop it?

Instead does the UK need to almost forget Floyd and what’s going on in the US and effectively start our own changes in this country?

Would Ian Wright and Harry Kane fronting a nationwide knife amnesty be better than taking the knee?

Would changing the junior and senior school curriculum to cover all the highlighted issues and that of homophobia, hate crimes, social media abuse and all the historical aspects that accompany them be better than taking the knee?

Would rolling out a nationwide government funded programme where we invest in the nations youth, from the inner cities to the countryside communities, be better than taking the knee?

Would investing in the Police , and returning to a time where they were not only a force but had the respect of the overwhelming majority of the population be better than taking the knee?

The legendary P T Barnum famously said “You can’t fool all of the people all of the time” and a large part of this country either publicly, as with the booing, or privately are of the opinion that highly paid sporting figures going down on one knee won’t change anything in the long run.

Whilst I will always have the Albion/Palace rivalry at the back of my mind, I actually think the aforementioned Ian Wright would be the ideal frontman to bring about real change, not hollow gestures but real changes to our society, I believe he already has widespread respect the length and breadth of the nation.

Post pandemic, once normality returns this will be a huge challenge for Boris and co, perhaps one of the most significant government actions of the next 20 years?

I genuinely don't mean to dig you out here, but that is clearly written by someone who has missed the point of taking the knee, by a very long way.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

how about a non bear pit section where others can carry on the debate?

Is there a debate? Racists want it to stop. Next!