taking the knee - what are your thoughts

[Lever]

To be honest it’s difficult to know what and who is racist anymore. There will be England fans booing the players taking the knee that are definitely racist according to some commentators.

Then again, there are other prominent England fans that regularly use the term “nigga” and perpetuate sexist tropes that are literally celebrated by the England team and its management.

https://genius.com/Krept-and-konan-same-shit-lyrics

This is a kind of shit could be a genius pythonesque ministry of racism sketch if we still did satire.

Well, I think if black graduates are consistently more likely to earn less than their white counterparts with the same qualifications and experience, that is an example of race inequality. Do you not agree?

 

[Guinness Boy]

First question, Racial inequality does not exist anymore in the UK.
Second question, because they are.


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Please highlight and quote their anti Semitic posts for me. We wouldn’t want that sort of thing on NSC.


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[beorhthelm]

This is a foolish and provocative tweet; but what exactly is your stance on protesting against race inequality?
Why do you randomly call other posters anti-semites?

because he is stunningly ignorant about the issue, as evidenced in the reply.

 

[vegster]

Please highlight and quote their anti Semitic posts for me. We wouldn’t want that sort of thing on NSC.


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I see you have made the mistake of trying to engage and comprehend Lightly Baked. I know you are a Mod but believe me, you are wasting your time. Just look at his back catalogue of bans and remember Leopards/Spots.

 

[Baker lite]

It seems now, Scotland and Croatia will not be grovelling for anti Semitic thugs that desecrate war memorials.


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[Pretty pink fairy]

It's really not if they are ignorant, obvious and angry

And although there are more ignorant and obvious examples on this thread, there's none close to your 41 posts on this particular thread. Quantity wins over quality everytime, particularly when the quality is supplied by Ppf, Baker lite etc

I'm would say I'm a little surprised at what is allowed on NSC these days. Or maybe I'm not when I see who is posting it

Free speech has to be nurtured
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

https://youtu.be/OV8GeAeISe4
Now Rio's got in on the act
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

https://youtu.be/F80ObwC47bk
It's all become a bit of a Goulash with a dollop of sour cream
Regards
DF

 

[Deleted member 22389]

This is how it should be done.

https://www.skysports.com/cricket/n...ment-of-unity-in-fight-against-discrimination

The England and New Zealand players took part in a 'Moment of Unity' before the start of the first Test at Lord's to show their collective determination to fight any form of discrimination in cricket.

The players and match officials stood in silence on the outfield, facing the pavilion, with the England side in T-shirts which incorporated anti-discrimination messages on their front and back.

The wearing of the T-shirts has been driven by the England men's squad and both the men and women will wear them in warm-ups throughout the summer.

The front of the T-shirts carries the message: 'Cricket is a game for everyone'.

There are seven different designs of the shirts, each one featuring a different message on the back.

The words on the back begin 'We stand together against', before one of 'racism', 'religious intolerance', 'sexism', 'transphoboia', 'homophobia', 'ableism' or 'ageism'.

 

[Baker lite]

This is what they are kneeling for.

Not for me Clive..


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[The Clamp]

This is what they are kneeling for.

Not for me Clive..


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Give it a rest. Go and do something productive with your day instead of sitting in the bear pit, pissing your pants every time a thought occurs to you.

 

[Baker lite]

Give it a rest. Go and do something productive with your day instead of sitting in the bear pit, pissing your pants every time a thought occurs to you.

The truth is often uncomfortable.


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[cunning fergus]

Well, I think if black graduates are consistently more likely to earn less than their white counterparts with the same qualifications and experience, that is an example of race inequality. Do you not agree?

I think it’s an excellent example to reflect the complexities of racial inequality in the U.K. albeit it’s only a single measure.

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...gs-of-graduates-after-higher-education/latest

The facts suggest a mixed picture, whites may marginally out perform blacks but both whites and blacks are out performed by Chinese and Indian ethnic groups. That doesn’t not suggest to me that we have a society that is structurally biased for whites to succeed over all other ethnic groups?

That equally doesn’t mean there is not “inequalities” in life or the system that black people (or other races) face however, if we simply ignore the nuance and allow people to constantly poison the U.K. race relationship well by suggesting a) we have the same problems as the US, b) we need US identity politics to improve the U.K. c) race relations have got worse since the 70s and d) improvement will be delivered by initiatives such as tearing down statues then sadly they are part of the problem.

We live in a country that has politicians from Asian backgrounds in 2 of the 4 most prominent political posts in the political system. Is this (ignoring political ideology) a good example of race relations in the U.K?.

People that don’t accept this kind of nuance in the debate on U.K. race relations are irredeemable zealots, there are plenty of them on here, we won’t find solutions with them because everything is always shit.

 

[The Clamp]

The truth is often uncomfortable.


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Isn’t it just.

 

[cunning fergus]

Isn’t it just.

Maybe we should consider communicating with each other through the medium of U.K. rap stars Krept and Konan. They represent modern multicultural England, support the England football team and through their art they provide a rich seam of linguistics we can fold in to our communication with each other........

https://www.google.com/search?q=krept & konan don't waste my time

Pray to the Lord nigga..........

 

[Lever]

I think it’s an excellent example to reflect the complexities of racial inequality in the U.K. albeit it’s only a single measure.

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...gs-of-graduates-after-higher-education/latest

The facts suggest a mixed picture, whites may marginally out perform blacks but both whites and blacks are out performed by Chinese and Indian ethnic groups. That doesn’t not suggest to me that we have a society that is structurally biased for whites to succeed over all other ethnic groups?

That equally doesn’t mean there is not “inequalities” in life or the system that black people (or other races) face however, if we simply ignore the nuance and allow people to constantly poison the U.K. race relationship well by suggesting a) we have the same problems as the US, b) we need US identity politics to improve the U.K. c) race relations have got worse since the 70s and d) improvement will be delivered by initiatives such as tearing down statues then sadly they are part of the problem.

We live in a country that has politicians from Asian backgrounds in 2 of the 4 most prominent political posts in the political system. Is this (ignoring political ideology) a good example of race relations in the U.K?.

People that don’t accept this kind of nuance in the debate on U.K. race relations are irredeemable zealots, there are plenty of them on here, we won’t find solutions with them because everything is always shit.

Again some fair points that deserve consideration. As Wilde once wrote 'the truth is seldom pure, and never simple'....

If you read the 2020 Race Report Statistics https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/race-report-statistics you will find that it covers

employment
education
crime
living standards
health and care

...and presents a disturbing picture of race inequalities in this country, which you may (or may not) accept - your choice. If you accept the study as true and accurate I am not sure you could rightly describe it as a generally 'mixed picture'.

Who suggests we have the same problems as the US?
Who is arguing that race relations have worsened since the seventies?
The tearing down of the statue (in my opinion obviously a divisive act) was, I think intended to bring a toxic issue to national attention after a long period of largely ignored embarrassment and criticism from sections of the Bristol population. As in all large crowds there will have been others with darker agendas, but in many cases it seems it was an act of frustration. Do you have evidence of a majority alternative motive?

Regards the numbers of politicians from asian backgrounds, it is a truly positive sign; it's just that in my opinion the hegemony of our system requires that the people in question generally subdue their minority perspective in favour of the status quo, thereby not adding significantly to the equality debate.

The situation is indeed 'nuanced' but many of those who favour making a stand are not zealots but simply frustrated with slowness of change...

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The truth is often uncomfortable.


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And free speech
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

This is how it should be done.

https://www.skysports.com/cricket/n...ment-of-unity-in-fight-against-discrimination

The England and New Zealand players took part in a 'Moment of Unity' before the start of the first Test at Lord's to show their collective determination to fight any form of discrimination in cricket.

The players and match officials stood in silence on the outfield, facing the pavilion, with the England side in T-shirts which incorporated anti-discrimination messages on their front and back.

The wearing of the T-shirts has been driven by the England men's squad and both the men and women will wear them in warm-ups throughout the summer.

The front of the T-shirts carries the message: 'Cricket is a game for everyone'.

There are seven different designs of the shirts, each one featuring a different message on the back.

The words on the back begin 'We stand together against', before one of 'racism', 'religious intolerance', 'sexism', 'transphoboia', 'homophobia', 'ableism' or 'ageism'.

https://youtu.be/9Uf1JrrtWMo ?
regards
DF

 

[cunning fergus]

Again some fair points that deserve consideration. As Wilde once wrote 'the truth is seldom pure, and never simple'....

If you read the 2020 Race Report Statistics https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/race-report-statistics you will find that it covers

employment
education
crime
living standards
health and care

...and presents a disturbing picture of race inequalities in this country, which you may (or may not) accept - your choice. If you accept the study as true and accurate I am not sure you could rightly describe it as a generally 'mixed picture'.

Who suggests we have the same problems as the US?
Who is arguing that race relations have worsened since the seventies?
The tearing down of the statue (in my opinion obviously a divisive act) was, I think intended to bring a toxic issue to national attention after a long period of largely ignored embarrassment and criticism from sections of the Bristol population. As in all large crowds there will have been others with darker agendas, but in many cases it seems it was an act of frustration. Do you have evidence of a majority alternative motive?

Regards the numbers of politicians from asian backgrounds, it is a truly positive sign; it's just that in my opinion the hegemony of our system requires that the people in question generally subdue their minority perspective in favour of the status quo, thereby not adding significantly to the equality debate.

The situation is indeed 'nuanced' but many of those who favour making a stand are not zealots but simply frustrated with slowness of change...

Thanks, I understand the response.

I said I accept racial inequalities exist, however, in the context that we now live in a multi ethnic country, in my view the outcomes of people’s lives are not solely driven by their race. We can generalise on outcomes by race of course, and at times that is needed for policy purposes, however race alone does not determine the destination of your life in a contemporary UK.

As the education stats demonstrate within ethnic groups some groups are outperforming others, this is evidence that the education system is not biased disproportionately to favour whites. That has to be a hugely positive factor in the development of a fully functioning multi ethnic country. So yes, the HRC can collate its view based on their statistical analysis but overall the trajectory in this country’s race relations for the last 20 years has been good.

The focus on race relations in the U.K. post George Floyd has undoubtedly been through a US lens, the fact that the kneeling at EPL matches only took place because of GF (as confirmed by Tyrone Mings on Weds night), means we are confronting the consequences of US police brutality at English football matches. Many people that are not racists can see through this, and that does not diminish the challenges this country has but we certainly don’t need post Trumpian US politics over here.

Vandalism and extremism will not unify this country either, post our civil war in 1640s we have largely muddled through without violent extremism. If those that are frustrated by change think it will be delivered by vandalising Churchill or trying to burn flags on the cenotaph they are mad. I live in Bristol, pulling down Colston and renaming all the Colston roads, pubs, pulling out church windows, schools, has been hugely divisive.

And for all this, I still think class (in whatever construct that applies today) is still a far bigger drag on outcomes, and for a far bigger population (of all ethnicities) of people. We can debate whether that means white working class is better off than black or Asian working class etc. however if we want it to be, class can be race neutral.

That should be the ground those that want change should drive it from. Race won’t cut it.

 

[The Clamp]

Thanks, I understand the response.

I said I accept racial inequalities exist, however, in the context that we now live in a multi ethnic country, in my view the outcomes of people’s lives are not solely driven by their race. We can generalise on outcomes by race of course, and at times that is needed for policy purposes, however race alone does not determine the destination of your life in a contemporary UK.

As the education stats demonstrate within ethnic groups some groups are outperforming others, this is evidence that the education system is not biased disproportionately to favour whites. That has to be a hugely positive factor in the development of a fully functioning multi ethnic country. So yes, the HRC can collate its view based on their statistical analysis but overall the trajectory in this country’s race relations for the last 20 years has been good.

The focus on race relations in the U.K. post George Floyd has undoubtedly been through a US lens, the fact that the kneeling at EPL matches only took place because of GF (as confirmed by Tyrone Mings on Weds night), means we are confronting the consequences of US police brutality at English football matches. Many people that are not racists can see through this, and that does not diminish the challenges this country has but we certainly don’t need post Trumpian US politics over here.

Vandalism and extremism will not unify this country either, post our civil war in 1640s we have largely muddled through without violent extremism. If those that are frustrated by change think it will be delivered by vandalising Churchill or trying to burn flags on the cenotaph they are mad. I live in Bristol, pulling down Colston and renaming all the Colston roads, pubs, pulling out church windows, schools, has been hugely divisive.

And for all this, I still think class (in whatever construct that applies today) is still a far bigger drag on outcomes, and for a far bigger population (of all ethnicities) of people. We can debate whether that means white working class is better off than black or Asian working class etc. however if we want it to be, class can be race neutral.

That should be the ground those that want change should drive it from. Race won’t cut it.

A day for celebration indeed! Racism in the U.K. is over. It’s been officially declared. Says middle class white man on football forum. Glory be.