Tactical Voting in the Election

[The Large One]

It would be a circus.

You're not being very clear. Would you like to elaborate on that? A circus in what way?

 

[Bozza]

I really can't see anything to disagree with TLO on this particular point. This election will be one and lost in the key marginals. Everywhere else, your vote really doesn't count for much.

Fundamentally, I can't vote for someone I don't support. Others disagree. That's fine, of course.

I don't believe that votes in "safe seats" don't count at all for a couple of reasons...

1. Massive swings are possible, and not just due to tactical voting. There's no point me copying and pasting details. If you're reading this you have Google - you can research it yourself if you're that interested.

2. Tactical voting can artificially change the political landscape both of the constituency and of the nation. Take my seat: strong Conservative with Labour the distant runner up. I can't vote Labour, despite my positive view of Jeremy Corbyn and his impressive campaign. I shall vote Lib Dem. As our politics has become so polarised, I think it's important to express my support for the middle ground. To give the Lib Dems hope in this constituency next time round, and also on a national level.

In a way, I guess my approach supports the "FPTP is rubbish" argument since the latest YouGov model has the Lib Dems getting 12 seats from a 9% vote. Proportional representation would see them have several multiples of that.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I would also suggest that the anti-FPTP crowd are generally less vocal when FPTP delivers them what they perceive as the "right" overall outcome.

 

[Brovion]

Really pissed off with Labour in Brighton Pavilion for not bothering on the (mistaken) assumption that the Greens are some sort of acceptable substitute. And yes I accept that, in smug, comfortable, middle-class, Remain-voting Brighton most people probably see them as that.

I'm going to tactically spoil my ballot paper

 

[Dick Swiveller]

Absolutely zero point for me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14001023

Lib Dems keep telling me that they are the only ones who can beat the Tories in my constituency. Must ask them what colour the sky is on their planet.

 

[The Large One]

i feel that this is effectively vote rigging, whichever party it favours. Tactical voting and also candidates standing down to allow another parties candidate to do better than they otherwise would. In my constituency (650 majority for Blue) there is no Green Party Candidate, I had an election leaflet from the Green party candidate explaining he wasn't standing to give Labour a better chance,thus disenfranchising those who wanted to register a green vote. I believe the UKIP candidate has also stood down, so maybe the effect will be cancelled out, however this is as undemocratic as others say the FPTP system is. The country voted on proportional voting and rejected it, this is the system we have, not perfect but miles better than a constant revolving government as one group falls out with another.

These decisions are taken within the party, and voted upon democratically. It was a unanimous vote in this instance.

It could be a theoretical issue that Green voters (as opposed to Green members) would be upset with this, but so far we have not heard one dissenting voice from would-be Green voters as to the decision.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

I won't need to on this occasion, but I very much would if elsewhere. Overall, you vote for the party that you are closest to, rather than the one that entirely speaks your mind. You have to be pretty blind to defend a party's every move or statement. And ideally we have to be flexible enough to turn our backs on a party if they are to bring something in so horrific. If Labour ever got in again, and were hideously unloving, or overtly attached to a global fiend, then I wouldn't vote for them, and haven't for such reasons. A badge is detachable.

It looks like David Stockdale might well agree with you, where your final statement is concerned.

Edit . . . Whoops, wrong thread!

 

[whitelion]

In what sense?

You're not being very clear. Would you like to elaborate on that? A circus in what way?

A first openly TG MP would likely mean that the MP would be a press target for his/her views on this single issue rather than for more serious matters - ie defence/education/health etc.

 

[Dick Swiveller]

This just reminded me - the leaflet from our UKIP candidate said she would increase the navy to protect our shipping routes with our new trade agreements.

 

[BBassic]

A first openly TG MP would likely mean that the MP would be a press target for his/her views on this single issue rather than for more serious matters - ie defence/education/health etc.

Yeah I could see that. I think after a time however the "novelty", for lack of a better word, would wear off.

With the amount of TG people now it's going to happen at some point.

 

[The Large One]

Fundamentally, I can't vote for someone I don't support. Others disagree. That's fine, of course.

I don't believe that votes in "safe seats" don't count at all for a couple of reasons...

1. Massive swings are possible, and not just due to tactical voting. There's no point me copying and pasting details. If you're reading this you have Google - you can research it yourself if you're that interested.

2. Tactical voting can artificially change the political landscape both of the constituency and of the nation. Take my seat: strong Conservative with Labour the distant runner up. I can't vote Labour, despite my positive view of Jeremy Corbyn and his impressive campaign. I shall vote Lib Dem. As our politics has become so polarised, I think it's important to express my support for the middle ground. To give the Lib Dems hope in this constituency next time round, and also on a national level.

In a way, I guess my approach supports the "FPTP is rubbish" argument since the latest YouGov model has the Lib Dems getting 12 seats from a 9% vote. Proportional representation would see them have several multiples of that.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I would also suggest that the anti-FPTP crowd are generally less vocal when FPTP delivers them what they perceive as the "right" overall outcome.

No-one is saying 'FPTP is rubbish'. It's just flawed. But then, no single-vote method will deliver a perfect system; all have their downsides and upsides.

The point is - PR will deliver, in almost every circumstance, a hung parliament, and therefore a multi-party coalition government, but it will be far more representative. FPTP doesn't offer that. The fact that we're not used to that is irrelevant.

 

[happypig]

I have a "preference list"
1. Vote to get a Labour MP
2. Vote to prevent a Tory MP

As I live in Eastbourne I am biting the bullet and voting for Stephen Lloyd (he's 6/4 on paddypower - be rude not to).

 

[nickbrighton]

When you've got the full weight of the right wing, non dom owned press who are willing to slander and outright lie in their pages for their own gain on one side I think a bit of tactical voting merely levels the playing field a tiny bit.

There have been lies, half truths, misdirection on all sides for years. If, after Brexit referendum, anyone is making their minds up on paper headlines or soundbites, and political slogans, then more fool them. Personally I am beginning to think neither party actually wants to win anyway, both campaigns have been inept and amateurish. I don't believe a word of what Corbyn has said, Abbott was a joke, May seems to have thrown it, all in all a very strange campaign

 

[The Large One]

A first openly TG MP would likely mean that the MP would be a press target for his/her views on this single issue rather than for more serious matters - ie defence/education/health etc.

That is a problem for the press, not the MP, nor her constituents.

Do you honestly think that the press should dictate the nature (especially when it's benign) of an individual's personality within parliament?

Talk about giving in to prejudice.

 

[Pinkie Brown]

I've voted tactically with my overseas postal vote for the LibDems in my former constituency. As a natural Labour voter, I was previously less than impressed with the Corbyn leadership anyway, although he's upped his game during the campaign. Probably makes no difference as its a seat where a chimp with a blue rosette would probably win. Hey Ho......

 

[Bozza]

No-one is saying 'FPTP is rubbish'. It's just flawed. But then, no single-vote method will deliver a perfect system; all have their downsides and upsides.

The point is - PR will deliver, in almost every circumstance, a hung parliament, and therefore a multi-party coalition government, but it will be far more representative. FPTP doesn't offer that. The fact that we're not used to that is irrelevant.

You're on one of your crusades where you pop on here and disagree with nearly everyone and everything. Arguing the toss about FPTP is rubbish/flawed is a wonderful illustration of that.

You've ignored my main points as to why I won't vote tactically, which is what this thread is about. I've explained. I'll leave you to it now.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Fundamentally, I can't vote for someone I don't support. Others disagree. That's fine, of course.

2. . I shall vote Lib Dem. As our politics has become so polarised, I think it's important to express my support for the middle ground. To give the Lib Dems hope in this constituency next time round, and also on a national level.

To be honest, you've pretty much summed up my own position. I'd like the final outcome to not be a Tory government, but I'd actually prefer a lab-lib coalition to a Labour majority. As you suggest - to apply a more centrist touch.

 

[The Large One]

There have been lies, half truths, misdirection on all sides for years. If, after Brexit referendum, anyone is making their minds up on paper headlines or soundbites, and political slogans, then more fool them. Personally I am beginning to think neither party actually wants to win anyway, both campaigns have been inept and amateurish. I don't believe a word of what Corbyn has said, Abbott was a joke, May seems to have thrown it, all in all a very strange campaign

'You don't believe a word Corbyn says'? Based on what...?

The Tories had a 25-point lead in some polls at the start of the campaign. That's all but gone. You think that that is entirely down to Theresa May? If Corbyn was considered 'inept and amateurish', that gap wouldn't have closed. You're only responding to your own prejudices.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'd like the final outcome to not be a Tory government, but I'd actually prefer a lab-lib coalition to a Labour majority. As you suggest - to apply a more centrist touch.

Same here. In general I prefer coalitions to majorities for a number of reasons. I'd involve Lucas in the cabinet as well.

 

[The Large One]

You're on one of your crusades where you pop on here and disagree with nearly everyone and everything. Arguing the toss about FPTP is rubbish/flawed is a wonderful illustration of that.

You've ignored my main points as to why I won't vote tactically, which is what this thread is about. I've explained. I'll leave you to it now.

No, the thread isn't about why you won't vote tactically; it's about tactical voting generally. Your 'main points' as to your reasoning are yours, and I can't argue with them. I haven't ignored them, I just haven't responded to them.

However, one of the central reasons for tactical voting across the UK is because of FPTP. That's what part of the discussion has become about.

 

[golddene]

I couldn't vote for someone I don't support. I just believe that's wrong and symptomatic of the negative politics we seem to be burdened with on all sides.

The Conservative campaign has got to be the most negative of any
party that I can remember in my lifetime, with the constant criticism of
Corbyn, Abbot, the Coalition of chaos etc etc so I feel no guilt in
abandoning my Labour past to vote for Stephen Lloyd (Lib Dem) which
Ties in nicely with my opinion that Corbyn although probably a decent
human being is a politician I just cannot vote for. The best outcome in my
opinion would be a hung parliament where the ruling parties are forced to
act in the best interests of the country and people rather then their own
selfish party interests.